Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

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  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    BB. wrote: »
    A few kWH from a storm blowing through is a gallon of gasoline in a Honda eu2000i genset (400 watts * 9 hours * 1/1.1 gallon tank = 3,273 Watt*Hours). Add ~$1,000 for genset and an oil change every 25 hours or so--And the genset should last 2,000 to 6,000 hours of use.

    Where the wind power helps is in the winter when there's only 6 hours of usable daylight. The solar simply can't get the bank to absorb in that time. When you got 1,000 watts of wind power coming in 24 hours a day it keeps the batteries from getting low so when the sun comes up the solar can get the job done in the time it's got to do it in without having to run the generator in 15 - 20 below weather to charge batteries.

    In the south latitudes where folks get good solar insolation in the winter time, and panels aren't covered in ice and snow, this is not an issue. We have sized our generator as small as possible to make it more efficient for peak load support and burn the least amount of fuel possible for supporting peak loads. For charging batteries it is too small and if it has to bring the bank from 50% SOC to the end of absorb with the inverter charger it takes it 8 hours of run time, minimum. There are periods here in December/January where we will not see the sun for six weeks at a time. Using 30 kWh/day in the winter time would mean at least 8 hours of run time per day on the generator, and probably closer to 10-11 hours to cover daytime loads plus battery charging. That's why wind power is important to us in the winter. Without it, we'd basically be screwed and go to supporting OPEC.

    However, these conditions do not apply to most off-grid installations because few people are fool-hardy enough to try to live off-grid in the frozen north.

    One of the advantages, however, to living off-grid in the frozen north is that we get beautiful long summer days without the heat and humidity they get down south. So our solar performs at peak efficiency for 8 months out of the year simply because we don't have to deal with overheated panels.
    --
    Chris
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,699Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I understand Chris... My comment was more pointed at the gathering a few kWH as a storm front moves through (a few times a month?) with 10 turbines on $100 towers.

    I agree that the only practical method, based on how wind flow work, require a good quality/rugged turbine to be put in steady/non-turbulent air flow. And it can only be done on a 60 foot MINIMUM height tower (and 90+ feet is going to be much better).

    Too low of tower, not enough wind, and what wind there is, will be turbulent. Tall tower with less than rugged turbine0--It will be damaged by the high winds and/or the electrically overheated if that is the only way to control maximum RPM.

    Both physics and mechanical/electrical design requirements point to a lot of work and $$$ to get reliable/useful wind power. Try to save on one (less tower, or "less" turbine) and the whole application falls apart.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • inetdoginetdog Posts: 3,121Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    However, these conditions do not apply to most off-grid installations because few people are fool-hardy enough to try to live off-grid in the frozen north.
    At least not while maintaining an electricity-dependent lifestyle. :-)
    It is nice to be able to live where you want and still live comfortably.

    A friend of mine thought about retiring to the "gold country" in the Sierra foothills and working entirely remotely over the Internet. Very practical technically, but then he thought about theatre, opera, ballet, coffee with friends, and decided against it. He summed it up as: "Man does not live by Net alone."
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • inetdoginetdog Posts: 3,121Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    BB. wrote: »
    Try to save on one (less tower, or "less" turbine) and the whole application falls apart.

    Too often literally.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    BB. wrote: »
    I understand Chris... My comment was more pointed at the gathering a few kWH as a storm front moves through (a few times a month?) with 10 turbines on $100 towers.

    If it's much of a storm front you'll have zero turbines on ground level towers after it goes thru.

    This is the message I try (and most times fail) to get folks to understand - if you're going to put in wind you either do it from a hobbiest point of view because it's fun to fiddle with - OR - you put it in because you need it for off-grid power. If you need it, PLEASE do it right so you don't waste your money on something that doesn't work. There's story after story after story of people putting these wind turbines on 2" pipe 30 or 40 feet in the air then don't get any usable power from them. When will people learn that this is a hobbiest thing only and that 400 watt hours in a day is not enough energy to charge up even one little Group 24 12V marine deep cycle boat battery?
    --
    Chris
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,699Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I try to avoid making every wind post of mine a copy of my post #12 on this thread.

    Yes, I do not believe that small wind (meaning inexpensive turbines mounted on towers less than ~60 feet tall) is practical. And good quality (expensive, with 2 or more methods to shut down in high winds) on short towers for more than a hand full of wind sites is also difficult (i.e, pool table flat lands, crest of a hill with smooth wind flow, etc., where high winds blow for a portion of every day).... etc., etc., etc....

    So--Other than one post with the basic wind pro and con information--I try to just answer wind questions as asked.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • inetdoginetdog Posts: 3,121Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    20yrDCman wrote: »
    I'll buy and put up 30' in the air 10 smaller wind turbines for the same cost as your big one and MAKE MORE POWER.

    I lose $30 a month on each turbine, but I make up for it in volume?
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • keyturbocarskeyturbocars Posts: 375Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I've had a HY-2000 here for 2.5 years and it has been absolutely perfect. I did get rid of the original control system and put together my own system based around a Midnite Classic 150. I can't say how the original controller would have held up. As far as tower height, yes, I'm one of those dummies with a guyed tower with my turbine at less than 40 feet off the ground. Most places, it would not be high enough. Where I live in a canyon with the semi-arid region that produces natural vegetation consisting of sage brush and no trees unless they are irrigated, the wind flow in this canyon is just fine for my wind turbine. The lay of the land funnels the wind right into my wind turbine. Could it be better at a higher height? Sure it could, but it works fine as it is. In fact, it was working too well. I was hitting peaks of 5,000 watts (from a 2kW rated turbine) and so I programmed my Classic to start applying the brakes sooner. Now I have it set so peak power is around 4kW. I'm more interested in longevity rather than peak power. So far, so good. I've got 2.5 years to tell me that the HY-2000 3 blade wind turbine is a good unit. I don't know about the newer HY turbines, and I don't know about the smaller HY turbines from personal experience, but I can say with real personal experience that mine has been very reliable.

    Just to reiterate what has been stated on this forum before. NOT all Windmax turbines are HY Energy turbines. Windmax doesn't make any wind turbines. They are a just a reseller in the US. They also sold (might still sell) a 2kW wind turbine known as the V2.0. It was a bad design that would fail easily. The V series of Windmax turbines are not made by HY Energy.

    Here's some info on my HY wind turbine experience: http://www.rc-trucks.org/home-wind-turbine.htm . I have nothing to gain promoting these or any other wind turbines. For most people, I'd say stick with solar. It's a lot simpler and more reliable. If you really (REALLY) do have good wind at your location, then wind power can be nice. Most people do not have the right circumstances to make it worthwhile. Even my location has seasonal winds where some times in the year, I get ZERO wind. Other times like the Spring we get quite a bit of wind. Sometimes it is too much wind, and it causes damage on the property. Thankfully, so far my HY-2000 has held up just fine.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    If you really (REALLY) do have good wind at your location, then wind power can be nice.

    Even so, being you're on the grid does the investment in your wind turbine justify having it? I highly doubt it. Other than being a learning experience for most people, and fun to fiddle with it, it's not practical.

    The way I look at it, most off-grid installations have seasonal winds. In the north those seasonal winds tend to blow in the winter when solar is inactive due to short days and poor solar insolation. For the cost of about $10,000 to put one up (excavation, concrete, tower, wiring, service panels, etc), each one of my turbines saves me about 350 hours a year on the generator, which would otherwise equate to roughly $1,350/year in generator operating expense (depreciation, repairs, maintenance, fuel), per turbine. The wind turbine lasts easily 15x longer than a generator for the same energy production, long term, per dollar of expense in acquiring and installing the equipment. So on pure operating cost alone (wind power vs generator power) I can make a $10,000 off-grid turbine pay for itself in 7-8 years, and generate the electricity with a renewable resource instead of fossil fuel.

    There is no way on god's green earth that you can make a wind turbine pay for itself in your lifetime when you can buy 15 cents/kWh electricity from the grid.
    --
    Chris
  • keyturbocarskeyturbocars Posts: 375Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    You are right that it is not economically feasible. My primary motivation was to have some emergency backup power. The same is true with my 2.1kW solar power. Primary motivation is/was a source of some backup power. I have generators, but I wanted something that didn't require fuel to run.
  • ggunnggunn Posts: 1,973Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    You are right that it is not economically feasible. My primary motivation was to have some emergency backup power. The same is true with my 2.1kW solar power. Primary motivation is/was a source of some backup power. I have generators, but I wanted something that didn't require fuel to run.
    Do you have batteries? You are going to need batteries for grid backup.
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    Even so, being you're on the grid does the investment in your wind turbine justify having it?"

    Chris have you seen windenergy7? They use windmax wind turbines. Their whole business is based around roof top wind turbines.
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,699Super Moderators admin
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I guess this is the Windenergy7 website...

    My question always is--Are there any Amp*Hour/Watt*Hour meters on those roof top turbines logging their output power? And, if so, what is the monthly production over the last year (at least).

    Placing wind turbines on a standard roof--It really worries me. The torque and vibration is usually bad news for wood+nail construction.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    20yrDCman wrote: »
    Chris have you seen windenergy7? They use windmax wind turbines. Their whole business is based around roof top wind turbines.

    This thread is approaching the point of nonsense. There is only one way to install wind power, and that's to do it right on a real tower that gets it up in the wind. Period. I don't care what some of these outfits do, and I don't care if somebody insists I don't know what I'm talking about.

    Here, Hugh Piggot has over 30 years experience in the wind power industry, and he is consulted by some of the largest wind turbine manufacturers on earth. Why don't you read what he has to say about rooftop wind turbines?
    http://scoraigwind.com/#rooftop

    Unless somebody starts asking common sense questions, interested in putting in a real wind power system, and quits trying to promote this idiotic idea that these little wind turbines can be put on short pipes and rooftops, I'm done here. This is the kind of crap that gives wind power a bad name - people who don't know what they're doing and claim you can do this stuff. People get suckered into it and when it don't work it's like "duh".

    --
    Chris
  • inetdoginetdog Posts: 3,121Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    This thread is approaching the point of nonsense. There is only one way to install wind power, and that's to do it right on a real tower that gets it up in the wind. Period. I don't care what some of these outfits do, and I don't care if somebody insists I don't know what I'm talking about.
    ...
    Unless somebody starts asking common sense questions, interested in putting in a real wind power system, and quits trying to promote this idiotic idea that these little wind turbines can be put on short pipes and rooftops, I'm done here.

    Now you are being a real party-pooper Chris. Just because you have worked with both, know both the theory and the nuts and bolts engineering, and have seen the crappy stuff fail is no reason to tell people that they won't work.

    More seriously, I hope that you at least continue to keep an eye on this thread from time to time, even though you won't be responding to every foolish suggestion. Something useful may still come out of it. :-)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    inetdog wrote: »
    Now you are being a real party-pooper Chris.

    Fine. But at least let me make a suggestion.

    For anybody that wants to install a wind turbine this way, why not just buy the equivalent kW capacity in solar panels and install them in your basement? It's a lot a cheaper and works just as good.
    --
    Chris
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Posts: 17,615Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Speaking of keeping an eye on this thread (and others), that's what we moderators do. This and some of the other wind threads have gotten a bit "intense" at time, and we don't like it. It rather looks like we are going to have to apply even stricter regulation to these threads to keep the flames down. There is far too much mud-slinging potential here, and it will not be allowed to continue.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Posts: 1,807Banned ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I agree 100% 'coot. Nobody ever recommends installing solar panels in the shade. But they do the equivalent with wind turbines all the time because it costs money to put one in right. I get extremely irritated over it because it's about as practical as saying you should run space-saver spares on your car because who needs real tires?
    --
    Chris
  • gww1gww1 Posts: 963Solar Expert
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    The power of the wind is unbelievable. Every turbine will get some power at least on one day.

    I have had two twenty foot 1 and a quarter inch poles bent double with two different turbines on them. It sometimes took almost a year before it happened. I also spent a lot of time watching them almost turn or turn for 30 seconds and then quit. One of them come down and hit the siding on my shed. I'm going to hire it fixed cause I don't want to take the time to fix it myself, I was working on getting the turbine back up.

    I haven't put a proper one up yet. I will probly try more stuff that don't work.

    Its sort of like putting a cherry bomb in your mailbox to see what it does. Then you get to put up another mailbox.

    Its ok to do as long as you know that you will get to pay for your mastakes. I have found it fun even though common sense shows me I am being very stupid.

    I am going to try to do better next time even though I know that will be stupid also, as I am only in a wind zone 2.

    I don't remember if I liked pinwheels when I was a kid or not.
    gww
  • ggunnggunn Posts: 1,973Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?
    ChrisOlson wrote: »
    I get extremely irritated over it because it's about as practical as saying you should run space-saver spares on your car because who needs real tires?
    --
    Chris
    OT - The first thing I do when I acquire a car is purchase a rim from a salvage yard, get a tire mounted on it, and toss that donut into the recycling. They are worse than useless.
  • nielniel Posts: 10,311Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    gww1,
    1.25 inch pipe is not strong enough for support to a wind turbine. the weight of it is one thing, but the force of the wind multiplies the effective weight in detrimental ways.

    general,
    i agree with coot that you must keep it toned down and on subject. i know you can get emotional at times, but the focus has to stay on the subject matter. i gave ravenskeep a 3 day timeout not just because he started slinging to another member, but because after my general warning to all he took it personal and he denied doing anything wrong at which time i quoted his misdeed and he then reaped a punishment. he has not come back after his timeout and that is his decision.
  • gww1gww1 Posts: 963Solar Expert
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    Neil
    Yea, I know. The second bent pipe was actually 1.5". I still have the turbine up with the 1.5 x 4' stub on top of a utility pole. It was all I had at the time and I didn't have alot of time to play. The key word is play. I don't have close neibors and have only had a couple of weeks here and there. There is also quite the learning curve. I intend to do better. I retire in august and may have time to do better.
    cheers
    gww
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I've heard magnets for less selling it branded "windmax" is losing their distributorship. The common complaint seems to be lack of knowledge, support, service. Perhaps the real issue is the HYE Energy turbine is a fairly decent product but has been sold by the wrong distributor. Just another way to look at it.
  • 20yrDCman20yrDCman Posts: 23Registered Users
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I seen the HYE turbine on mandalay wind and went ahead and called them and they said they have replacement parts in stock. They have branded them "skymax". They said they would have videos up very soon of output.
  • keyturbocarskeyturbocars Posts: 375Solar Expert ✭✭
    Re: Wind Max HY Energy Chinese imports hype or good stuff?

    I also noticed that now the HY Energy wind turbines are being sold under the new SkyMax name. In case anyone is interested, here's a link to the SkyMax site.

    http://www.skymaxwind.com/

    From what I've seen, it looks like Missouri Wind and Power is now involved in distributing the HY wind turbines. I've never dealt with them, but I've read about people complaining about them (mainly because they sell Delco based wind turbines that don't produce very much). Other than that, I don't know much about them. One thing I do know is that I would definitely buy another HY wind turbine. My HY-2000 wind turbine has been working well for around 3 years now. I'm very happy with the HY-2000. When I checked out the SkyMax website and also the HY Energy website, I see that the HY-2000 is no longer available. Looks like they phased it out and instead they now have a HY-1500 model.

    In case anyone is interested in the manufacturer's website, here it is: http://www.hyenergy.com.cn/
  • DaveM54DaveM54 Posts: 3Registered Users
    I may have missed something but....is there a cut-off point for what is considered a "small" turbine?  I have been offered 2-2KW Wind Max units and am debating the merits thereof.  Appreciate the discussion here, but are you addressing smaller units than this? I'm wondering whether these would be a worthwhile purchase or not.  Seller is asking $1500 and one unit is new in box.  I have no idea what they originally sold for and am having serious trouble trying to find out!  Seems a bit high to me, but....I'd appreciate any possible input.
  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,798Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    If you don't have to tie your hat on when you go outside, you likely don't have enough wind to be useful
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,634Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    IMHO, a "small " turbine is something you or I could reasonably be expected to erect and maintain. A "large" turbine is something that would be erected by a company which, after careful engineering, is expected to make a profit.

    I'm guessing this falls more in the former than the latter category.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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