Can this 40 battery bank work??

FreewilleyFreewilley Posts: 217Solar Expert ✭✭
My friend has a son in the fire dept and just got  40 of these
AGM by C & D Technologies UPS 12 540 MR 20 hr rating 149
They are 5 year old backups from the fire dept.

He has about 1200 watts of solar panels on his off grid system. He intends to hook up all 40 in his bank. His bank is 24 volts.

Will that work? (I suspect not) If not, what kind of bank would you design with these free batteries?
Mate, VFX 2812, FM 60 & MX 60, 4 Surrette 550 (new 2014), 1400 watt Solar Array, Yamaha 3000iSEB inverter gen
12 volt Flojet water pump
off grid summer home in northern Ontario

Comments

  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Posts: 817Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9 #2
    What is he powering that he needs 20 parallel strings of batteries?  That will give him a 2980 ah bank. It's absolutely ridiculous but if he insists he's going to need around 300 amps of charging power to maintain all those batteries.
     He can set up 10, 48 volt banks

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,564Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    UPS batteries are good for a couple dozen deep cycles.   That's why they are "given away", so that the FD does not have them die next month. 
    Best use, get the $5 each from the county recycle program and buy DEEP cycle batteries
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,054Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    Putting the core/recycling credit towards new, properly sized, deep cycle batteries makes sense to me.

    If I really HAD to use them, I'd put them in a 2 series (24v) x 2 parallel (~300ah) bank. 1200w of pv might provide ~1200x.75/28v= roughly 30a charging - about right for a 300ah bank. They'll likely fail regularly, so float the remaining 36 batteries periodically, and swap into the active bank as required. Some may be near-dead already, so culling with a load test might be a good idea.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • 706jim706jim Posts: 185Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    I was given Nife batteries from the railroad. Ten years old but "still perfectly good".

    NOT!!!!

    And was lucky enough to get the coast guard to dispose of the hundred or so dead turkeys that I was otherwise stuck with on an island.

    Buy new deep cycle batteries would be my recommendation.
    Island cottage solar system with 1400 watts of panels, Trace DR1524 MSW inverter, Trace C40 PWM controller 8 Trojan L16's. My 25th year.
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,449Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:  
    Best use, get the $5 each from the county recycle program and buy DEEP cycle batteries
    Right idea, but seriously wrong value! I believe lead acid batteries are currently going for 30 cents a pound here in Missouri, a 12 volt 149 Ah battery should weigh 130 pounds or so! That's big bucks! around $40 each... If he's near by, I'll pick them up for $5 each!

    I would hope Canada has a market for lead acid batteries. This 2011 report is saying $5-$15 for a car battery (car batteries will weight much less)

    http://www.canadianbatteryassociation.ca/files/2011 Annual Report.pdf

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,054Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    Most places locally (MB) are ~$30 refundable core charge added to price at purchase. May be lower for little powersports batteries etc., but seems to be the same for car/GC/L16.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • just startingjust starting Posts: 203Registered Users ✭✭
    So same senerio, my batteries came from a weather station, I have 12 2s6p so around 900 ah same batteries, they have worked for 2 1/2 years now, I only did it because I got them for 1500$ and they definitely paid for themselves, now I'm on LiFePO4 so they just float now, it's a decent battery for what it is.

    1500 w PV- xantrex 60-150 mppt -894 ah agm- Rd2824 magnum MSW inverter- 250 E panel-  chest freezer to fridge- Samlex PST 1524 - fl Samsung wf5200 washer Ryobi 2200 watt gen-80 w panel with morningstar sunguard 4.5- 2 gc2- for water pump 5.5 GPM 60 psi - 24v 5.5 gmp 60psi water pump-Marey 4.3 GPM on demand waterheater - mama bear Fisher wood burning stove, 30" fridgarair oven ,fridegaire dishwasher with the heayer disconnected and 168 degree water.
  • Marc KurthMarc Kurth Posts: 416Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    FWIW, the recycle rate with my guy is currently $0.38/lb.  A typical 150 ah AGM weighs around 95 to 100 lbs.
    So, 40 x 95 = 3,800 lbs.is $1400+

    C&D is well known in the world of OEM and standby applications. They are also well know for not making an actual deep cycle battery designed for repetitive deep cycles.

    If the old batteries are now going to be used in a grid tied battery backup app, then install around 50% more than your load calc requires and it might work just fine. If the app is more demanding than standby, sell them all for scrap and do something more effective with the money. Good AGM's don't normally just go belly up suddenly. They will warn you that they are going soft for quite awhile. People who know how to read that curve, know when to replace.

    There are good reasons for this type of battery getting replaced on a regular schedule.

    Marc

     

    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,449Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    He is in Canada, I meant to come back and suggest if he intended to sell for scrap, he might pick up a pallet and 'palletize' them and then ask for bids, Particularly if he has a loading dock where he can store them for pickup. AGM's aren't a hazardous load in the US, so likely not in Canada.

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • mcgivormcgivor Posts: 1,540Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    The scrap value will still be there when dead, I say use them for educational purposes, find out first hand why it's difficult to parrallel so many batteries, why 5 year old batteries are disposed, why the charge rate is important, why standby batteries are ill suited to cyclical use and so forth, as pointed out. Then absorb the information provided, sell them for scrap then get into something serious, nothing like experience to gain knowledge, because information is not knowledge, others can only supply information.
      1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider 150 60 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 8×T105 GC 24V nominal 

  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,564Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    But the cost of all the interconnects ....
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,054Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    If he wires them all up, the bank would be something like 149a x 20 = [email protected] 30a solar may not even float that. Wired 2s2p for ~300ah would be about right for available solar, and not cost much in wiring. Just a bit of work swapping them out as they die.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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