Can this 40 battery bank work??

Freewilley
Freewilley Solar Expert Posts: 228 ✭✭
My friend has a son in the fire dept and just got  40 of these
AGM by C & D Technologies UPS 12 540 MR 20 hr rating 149
They are 5 year old backups from the fire dept.

He has about 1200 watts of solar panels on his off grid system. He intends to hook up all 40 in his bank. His bank is 24 volts.

Will that work? (I suspect not) If not, what kind of bank would you design with these free batteries?
Mate, VFX 2812, FM 60 & MX 60, 2 Full River AGM 400 6v, 1400 watt Solar Array, Yamaha 3000iSEB inverter gen
12 volt Flojet water pump
off grid summer home in northern Ontario

Comments

  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018 #2
    What is he powering that he needs 20 parallel strings of batteries?  That will give him a 2980 ah bank. It's absolutely ridiculous but if he insists he's going to need around 300 amps of charging power to maintain all those batteries.
     He can set up 10, 48 volt banks

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    UPS batteries are good for a couple dozen deep cycles.   That's why they are "given away", so that the FD does not have them die next month. 
    Best use, get the $5 each from the county recycle program and buy DEEP cycle batteries
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Putting the core/recycling credit towards new, properly sized, deep cycle batteries makes sense to me.

    If I really HAD to use them, I'd put them in a 2 series (24v) x 2 parallel (~300ah) bank. 1200w of pv might provide ~1200x.75/28v= roughly 30a charging - about right for a 300ah bank. They'll likely fail regularly, so float the remaining 36 batteries periodically, and swap into the active bank as required. Some may be near-dead already, so culling with a load test might be a good idea.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • 706jim
    706jim Solar Expert Posts: 514 ✭✭✭✭
    I was given Nife batteries from the railroad. Ten years old but "still perfectly good".

    NOT!!!!

    And was lucky enough to get the coast guard to dispose of the hundred or so dead turkeys that I was otherwise stuck with on an island.

    Buy new deep cycle batteries would be my recommendation.
    Island cottage solar system with 2500 watts of panels, 1kw facing southeast 1.3kw facing southwest 170watt ancient Arco's facing south. All panels in parallel for a 24 volt system. Trace DR1524 MSW inverter, Outback Flexmax 80 MPPT charge controller 8 Trojan L16's. Insignia 11.5 cubic foot electric fridge. My 30th year.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:  
    Best use, get the $5 each from the county recycle program and buy DEEP cycle batteries
    Right idea, but seriously wrong value! I believe lead acid batteries are currently going for 30 cents a pound here in Missouri, a 12 volt 149 Ah battery should weigh 130 pounds or so! That's big bucks! around $40 each... If he's near by, I'll pick them up for $5 each!

    I would hope Canada has a market for lead acid batteries. This 2011 report is saying $5-$15 for a car battery (car batteries will weight much less)

    http://www.canadianbatteryassociation.ca/files/2011 Annual Report.pdf

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most places locally (MB) are ~$30 refundable core charge added to price at purchase. May be lower for little powersports batteries etc., but seems to be the same for car/GC/L16.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • just starting
    just starting Registered Users Posts: 235 ✭✭✭
    So same senerio, my batteries came from a weather station, I have 12 2s6p so around 900 ah same batteries, they have worked for 2 1/2 years now, I only did it because I got them for 1500$ and they definitely paid for themselves, now I'm on LiFePO4 so they just float now, it's a decent battery for what it is.
    200ah LiFePO4 24v Electrodacus Sbms40 quad breaker chest freezer to fridge- Samlex PST 1524 - Samlex pst3024  - 1hp shallow well pump-Marey 4.3 GPM on demand waterheater - mama bear Fisher wood burning stove, 30" fridgarair oven ,fridegaire dishwasher  Unique 290l stainless D.C. Fridge-unique 120l portable fridge/freezer 
  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭✭
    FWIW, the recycle rate with my guy is currently $0.38/lb.  A typical 150 ah AGM weighs around 95 to 100 lbs.
    So, 40 x 95 = 3,800 lbs.is $1400+

    C&D is well known in the world of OEM and standby applications. They are also well know for not making an actual deep cycle battery designed for repetitive deep cycles.

    If the old batteries are now going to be used in a grid tied battery backup app, then install around 50% more than your load calc requires and it might work just fine. If the app is more demanding than standby, sell them all for scrap and do something more effective with the money. Good AGM's don't normally just go belly up suddenly. They will warn you that they are going soft for quite awhile. People who know how to read that curve, know when to replace.

    There are good reasons for this type of battery getting replaced on a regular schedule.

    Marc

     

    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    He is in Canada, I meant to come back and suggest if he intended to sell for scrap, he might pick up a pallet and 'palletize' them and then ask for bids, Particularly if he has a loading dock where he can store them for pickup. AGM's aren't a hazardous load in the US, so likely not in Canada.

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    The scrap value will still be there when dead, I say use them for educational purposes, find out first hand why it's difficult to parrallel so many batteries, why 5 year old batteries are disposed, why the charge rate is important, why standby batteries are ill suited to cyclical use and so forth, as pointed out. Then absorb the information provided, sell them for scrap then get into something serious, nothing like experience to gain knowledge, because information is not knowledge, others can only supply information.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But the cost of all the interconnects ....
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If he wires them all up, the bank would be something like 149a x 20 = ~3000ah@24v. 30a solar may not even float that. Wired 2s2p for ~300ah would be about right for available solar, and not cost much in wiring. Just a bit of work swapping them out as they die.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter