Xantrex C40 diversion mode

Horsefly
Horsefly Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭✭✭
edited March 2018 in Wind Power Generation #1
I've got a pretty good handle on solar, but am not familiar much with wind generation.  I'm guessing someone with experience with wind generation and diversion loads can help me.

My sister and brother-in-law (BIL) bought a sailboat a few years ago, already equipped with solar panels, a wind generator, a three-stage charger on the engine alternator, and a 120VAC three-stage battery charger (powered by either shore power or the on-board diesel generator). The "house battery" is a 500AH 12V bank, and there is one 100AH 12V engine battery.

They've taken it out several times for as long as six weeks, but my BIL has never felt like he really had all the info he needed on house power system. I finally got a couple of days to join them in FL to check it all out, and came away with several pages of notes.

The batteries are connected in parallel to all the charging sources:
  • The solar charge controller (BlueSky SolarBoost 2000E MPPT charger)
  • The Xantrex C40 PWM charger in diversion mode, managing the power from a KISS High Output wind generator (or at least that's what I thought it was doing)
  • The 100A alternator (via a Balmar ARS-15 three stage regulator)
  • The 120VAC charger (MasterVolt 12/80), handling 120VAC from either shore power or the diesel generator
Next to the C40 is a board with what looks like rebar segments across it, with the two wires going from the two ends of all the rebars to the C40. In reading the C40 manual and based on what I know of wind generators, this is clearly the diversion load.  It looks as though the rectified output of the wind generator's controller board goes directly to the battery, and the C40 manages the routing of power to the diversion loads. 

This is where I may be confused:  
Since there are all these other charge sources, what is done to ensure the C40 isn't sending power from the alternator, generator, or solar charge controller to the diversion loads? Before I read the C40 manual, I had guessed that the wind generator came to the C40, and that the C40 managed the output voltage to the batteries and/or to the diversion load. However, that clearly isn't the case when the C40 is used in diversion mode. The wind generator is hooked directly to the batteries, and the C40 only looks at the battery voltage to determine if power should be routed through the diversion loads. I don't get that.

Related questions:
  1. Do we have to make sure the charging voltage on the C40 is higher than all the other sources to prevent other sources going to the diversion load? 
  2. Is it safe to conclude that the C40 isn't doing any management of the charging stages when power is coming from the wind generator? Isn't this potentially hard on the batteries?
  3. Is this the standard way that wind and solar are used together? Are there other chargers that perhaps are smarter?
Sorry if these are ignorant questions. I'm a retired EE and I'm sure it will all make sense to me some day....  :|

Steve

P.S. Bill - If this belongs in a different sub-forum, feel free to move it. I wasn't sure.


  
Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 8S (25.6V), 230Ah Eve LiFePO4 battery in a custom insulated and heated case.

Comments

  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2018 #2
    I don't know much about wind, and less about the c40, but I'll have a go anyway. Being wrong is how to learn.

    I have a pair Morningstar TS pwm controllers for trickle charging, which can do a diversion load if so configured. My understanding of their operation is that the input from the dc source of diversion current is common with the dc diversion load. The controller manages output to the battery according to a set charging algorithm, much as it would from solar or whatever. To the extent current is needed to charge batteries, it pulses to do so. Being common to the diversion load, any excess goes to the dump load.

    It may also help to think of the dump load as the normal load for the wind turbine, preventing it from tearing itself to bits in high winds by loading it down, and the controller diverting available current as/if needed to charge batteries.

    In other words, IMHO, and with the caveat I know nothing about a c40, it seems to me the rectified output of the wind generator should be going to the DC input / dump load terminals of the controller, not directly to the batteries... again stressing I don't really know what I'm talking about, so don't rewire anything unless others agree.

    If others disagree, that's fine, and how I learn stuff.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Horsefly
    Horsefly Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2018 #3
    Well @Estragon, I hope it doesn't offend you, but you and I think alike.  ;)  How you describe it is exactly how I would THINK it is supposed to work. However, looking at the C40 manual, it seems it isn't that way.

    (Hopefully it shows up)  The wind negative is going to the common ground, and the wind positive is going to the battery (through a disconnect). The only connections on the C40 are for the Battery (+ and -) and the Diversion load (+ and -).   Even if I can say it makes sense (and I don't think I can say that yet), I don't see how to prevent power coming in from Solar or the Generator going to the diversion load. And it certainly doesn't look like the C40 is managing the 3-stage charging of the batteries.
    Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 8S (25.6V), 230Ah Eve LiFePO4 battery in a custom insulated and heated case.
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    The charger and alternator are self regulating, when a given voltage is achieved they reduce current output to near zero as long as the voltage threshold is met, battery fully charged. Wind generators on the other hand do not regulate so they would continue to force current into the battery thereby raising the voltage to undesirable levels. The division controller will divert the wind generator's output to the diversion load, as long as the battery voltage remains high enoughor fully charged.These voltage thresholds are what would be programmed into the diversion controller. 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There should also be a "brake" switch or a "shutdown", so the turbine can not spin needlessly in a storm
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    As I understand a "basic" mixed charging system... You would normally set your Absorb (peak charging) to (for example) 14.7 volts. And set the dump load at ~14.9 volts. (this is for flooded cell batteries... For AGM/Sealed batteries, probably closer to 14.2 absorb and 14.4 volts dump).

    For most wind power systems, they only charge a lot a few times (battery full, windy/stormy weather). If you set the dump > the maximum charging voltages for the rest of the charging sources, the batteries are usually OK.

    If, however, you have a good wind turbine and lots of wind, you may need to back the dump voltage down to prevent over charging.

    And, of course, if you equalize the battery bank, you will have to set everything for manual equalization (you decide when to equalize and what controller(s) will do the equalization).

    If you have good amount of solar panels, probably tie up the wind turbine when the boat is not occupied and loads are turned off--Let the solar/shore power keep the bank charged (I am not a fan of wind turbines--especially if unattended).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Horsefly
    Horsefly Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Bill (and @mcgivor and @mike95490).  I pretty much already understood what both @mcgivor and @mike95490 are saying. I think my problem was I couldn't see why the wind generator's C40 would for sure not be shunting power from another source to the diversion load. However, I think @BB. has given me the clue. I think what you are saying is that as long as I have the bulk and float voltages of the C40 set higher than the bulk and float voltages of all the other sources, then the C40 would only go into diversion mode if the voltage from the wind generator exceeds those settings.

    The wind generator on the boat in question isn't working right now. We think there is a broken wire in the mast. So my only worry was what will the C40 be doing. Since it only watches the voltage at the battery, I was worried it my be diverting generator, alternator, or charger power. Since I'm not there and they are preparing to sail to the Bahamas for at least a month, I think I'm going to tell them to disconnect or otherwise disable the C40.
    Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 8S (25.6V), 230Ah Eve LiFePO4 battery in a custom insulated and heated case.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    The C40 would be set to Absorb only in diverson/dump mode (I believe that is is how it is done). That way, no confusion about one charging source trying to Absorb while the C40 was dumping thinking that the battery bank should be in float.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Horsefly
    Horsefly Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    The C40 would be set to Absorb only in diverson/dump mode (I believe that is is how it is done). That way, no confusion about one charging source trying to Absorb while the C40 was dumping thinking that the battery bank should be in float.

    -Bill
    Ohhhhh. So you're saying the C40 in this mode doesn't do float at all? I think that would make me worry WAAAY less. My concern obviously was that the C40 would be trying to float and some other source would be trying to do absorption, so the C40 would dump all the power from the other sources. However, if the C40 doesn't care about float, it would only do diversion to the dump load when the battery voltage was higher, at bulk / absorption.  

    I'll look for more info on that aspect. It hadn't occurred to me. Thanks Bill!
    Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 8S (25.6V), 230Ah Eve LiFePO4 battery in a custom insulated and heated case.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    One of the best ways to get new batteries is a wind generator on a sailboat.

     I made good income from wind generators. I think when they actually start using the boat they will find that they have to anchor in windy places which is the last thing you want after being in the wind making a passage.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • Horsefly
    Horsefly Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭✭✭
    One of the best ways to get new batteries is a wind generator on a sailboat.

     I made good income from wind generators. I think when they actually start using the boat they will find that they have to anchor in windy places which is the last thing you want after being in the wind making a passage.
    Dave - That makes sense. They've already crossed the from FL over to the Bahamas once last year, and leave to do it again next week. They don't seem concerned at all about not having the wind generator, and maybe it is because of what you are describing. I somehow thought that it would generate enough to be worth it while they were sailing. Apparently it takes 20 hrs of sailing to get across, and I figured having the wind generator all that time would be worthwhile. If they actually have to be at anchor, I see why it isn't so useful.

    Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 8S (25.6V), 230Ah Eve LiFePO4 battery in a custom insulated and heated case.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    You have to check the manual. Either program float off, or set float voltage = absorb voltage.

    I don't know if the C40 can do this, but that is where I would start.

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,730 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes it will by adjusting set-points and jumpers. I still have one that says Trace on it  :) There is no "programming" of  a C40 in modern terms!
    Thanks for the rain Bill. Up to 35" for the season!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • dave987654321
    dave987654321 Registered Users Posts: 2
    Hi, I'm new here, and have lots to learn
    I have some related questions of my own, but first, it was asked above about 3-stage charging from wind when using the C-series as a diversion controller and the wind turbine direct to the batteries...
     
    From the C-series manual:

    "When the C-Series controller is configured for Diversion
    Control mode, you can set the voltage at which the unit
    begins diverting current to a diversion load (high voltage
    diversion). Use the Charge Control scale for setting this
    value.

    The unit will continue diverting excess current to the
    diversion load until the source voltage falls to or below the
    BULK setting. After one hour at the BULK setting, the unit
    will reduce the battery charging voltage to the FLOAT
    voltage setting. This will usually result in more current being
    diverted to the diversion load"

    Does this not, in effect, give you a 3-stage charge to your batteries? The discharged battery bank will keep the voltage down at first. As it becomes charged, the voltage will creep up until it hits the bulk setpoint, divert excess, hold for an hour absorb, then divert more power to the dump to drop the battery voltage to the float range. All the while, keeping a load on your PMA? Is this correct? As far as it dumping power from other CCs, just keep the dump setpoints slightly higher? Manually set them even higher when you want to equalize with a different CC?

    I would like to set something like this up at my cabin, but not for wind...

    First a little background: Small 24v system, 2-12v 250ah batteries in series, 800watt 24-110v inverter, and a little over 1000w of solar on its own MPPT controller. I have a small marine batt charger that I run off a generator when the sun is not shining and it gets used a lot in the wintertime. However, said charger takes forever to charge the batteries and I also risk forgetting to unplug the generator and whatnot and turning inverter on.

    Keep in mind this is just a cabin and all my loads are pretty small. An energy efficient TV or radio and a few LED lights. Even my water pump is just a 24v sprayer pump, not sure of the start up load, but only 4.5amp running. All other appliances propane. No matter whats going on, house loads are usually always less then 10amp.What I was thinking about doing is just running a permanant magnet alternator (designed for higher RPM engine use, not wind) off a small gas engine, connected to my batteries directly, then use a C-35 xantrex I have as a diversion control to keep the batteries from overcharging. Is this a good way to go about it?

    Or do I just regulate the PMA output voltage with the throttle, run the PMA into the xantrex and use it as a charge controller? The guy that sold me the PMA said if I did this, he recommended I put 2 batteries in series to act as a ballast so a house load comming on wouldn't burn out the PMA. But this raises other questions, and when I asked him, he stopped replying, goasted. First question being, what happens to the 2 "ballast" car batteries if they are fully charged and I have this thing putting out 31,32,33 volts to accomadate for a little voltage drop and some cold tempature compensation at my batteries? Doesn't seem like a great idea.

    If I go the diversion control route, any advice on sizing the diversion load? I read that too small, it can't keep voltage down (shouldn't be an issue, I'm using a controlled RPM, not the volatile wind), to big a load, it can shut down the divertor controller and over charge and damage the batteries. Although, this setup will always be babysat while running, I don't want this to be an issue.

    I don't expect this setup to be idiot proof, as nothing of this nature is, just somewhat failsafe and proper without getting to elaborate. I think a lot of people just use these PMAs to do a bulk charge with a gas engine, then let solar finish it off. I would like to be able to perform a complete charge cycle with it as we can go weeks in the winter without sun. And I've been known to stay for for weeks at a time :)

    Am I over thinking this? With my small < 10 amp house loads, can I just hook the PMA to the xantrex and use it as a charge controller. Keep an eye on things, adjust the throttle to keep the voltage going from the PMA to the charge controller between 30-40 volts (it will handle up to 50vdc input). Also without the "ballast batteries" due to the small house loads I am dealing with. Or should I just use a standard alternator that I can regulate easier?

    There are lots of people selling these PMAs but not a lot of discussion or information on this particular use of them. And a whole interweb full of misinformation and "experts." I bought the damn thing and I'm half scared to even hook it up and try it. I asked about RPMs and pully sizes and whatnot and couldn't get an answer from the manufacturer.

    You guys sound like you know what you are talking about, so I will appriciate any feedback or advice.
    Sorry for rambling on.
    Dave

  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but wouldn't the batteries being charged be the "ballast"?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • dave987654321
    dave987654321 Registered Users Posts: 2
    Ya, that's what I thought. Weather I use the controller as diversion or connect the PMA to It and use it in charge control mode, my house batteries are still going power any house loads I turn on. But that's what the man told me
  • Tecnodave
    Tecnodave Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭

    I am using Trace C-40 controllers as a dump load. Have been doing so for a while

    First off.....when in diversion mode the c-40 does not divert any power until the "bulk" voltage set has been exceeded then it will divert excess power to the dump load. It will stay in this state for 1 hour. Then the "bulk mode timer" will time out and the voltage will be reduced to the "float mode" setting.

    This is exactly what it does in charge controller mode. This is not changed.

    So then if your batteries are not fully charged then the C-40 will dump the charging current to the dump load. Solar power and generator power alike will be dumped

    This is what it is supposed to do!

    Work around........set the float voltage the same as the bulk voltage. Both of these voltages need to be slightly higher than the bulk/absorb voltage of the other charging sources. This will work, much experimenting has got this solution.

    On my system I have hacked my C-40's to be remote controlled by the Classic aux output. The pots were lifted from the board and wired out to a logic circuit that changes the settings of the pots electronically, setting them artificially high when I do not want diversion and when the Classic calls for diversion then the other pot settings is electronically switched in. Both pots are set to the same value so there is no bulk/float. Only one setting which can be changed by the Classic calling for diversion by switching the pot sets. Toooo complicated but I have two systems side by side for 100% redundancy. My controllers may be on one bank one week and on the other next week. This works better for me as I bought the C-40's for a few bucks each at auction and way cheaper than a Crydom SSR.

    I have one C-40 on each battery bank that stays there. The charge controllers Classic's and Kids are switched from bank to bank as needed. The lead Classic controls both C-40's of course the bank not being charged will be at lower than bulk so that C-40 will divert nothing. My dump load is a water heater with 24 volt element, same one as sold by NAWS, two elements, 12,24,or 48 volt depending on wiring.

    2 Classic 150, 2 Kid, 5 arrays 7.5 kw total  2ea.  2S6P Sharp NE-170/NE-165, 1ea. 12P Sanyo HIT 200,  2ea. 4/6P Sanyo HIT 200, MagnaSine MS4024AE, Exeltech XP-1100,  2 Banks L-16 battery, Rolls-Surette S-530 and Interstate Traction, Shunts with whizbangJr and Bogart Tri-Metric, iCharger i208B  dc-dc buck/boost converter with BMS for small form lithium 8S 16650 or LiFePO4,
  • Tecnodave
    Tecnodave Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭

    And part two........dave987654321

    Yes the C-40 ...C-35...C-60 does work as a three stage charge controller in controller mode and in dump mode

    in load control mode it does not!

    as to your PMA output......without load a PMA output voltage skyrockets to higher levels than a C-XX controller is designed for. It will not last long. I nave no expereince there (with PMA's) I would think that it would be ok in controller mode. But again no expereince there. With a C-XX controller in dump mode the dump load must be larger than the input power or the voltage will skyrocket and damage stuff.

    2 Classic 150, 2 Kid, 5 arrays 7.5 kw total  2ea.  2S6P Sharp NE-170/NE-165, 1ea. 12P Sanyo HIT 200,  2ea. 4/6P Sanyo HIT 200, MagnaSine MS4024AE, Exeltech XP-1100,  2 Banks L-16 battery, Rolls-Surette S-530 and Interstate Traction, Shunts with whizbangJr and Bogart Tri-Metric, iCharger i208B  dc-dc buck/boost converter with BMS for small form lithium 8S 16650 or LiFePO4,
  • Tecnodave
    Tecnodave Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭✭✭

    And part three,

    Estragon.......I disagree with you on your post. The TS-45 in dump mode works exactly like the C-40 in dump mode. The wiring is the same....The input power goes to the battery and the TS-45 dumps excess power to the dump load. I have a TS-45 which I have never used in dump mode. I use it as a PWM controller for another small system. It works very well unlike my TS-MPPT-60 which works for an hour and goes out to lunch! Until rebooted! It's about to be booted out the door.

    I bought a dozen C-40 at government auction for $60.00/lot

    2 Classic 150, 2 Kid, 5 arrays 7.5 kw total  2ea.  2S6P Sharp NE-170/NE-165, 1ea. 12P Sanyo HIT 200,  2ea. 4/6P Sanyo HIT 200, MagnaSine MS4024AE, Exeltech XP-1100,  2 Banks L-16 battery, Rolls-Surette S-530 and Interstate Traction, Shunts with whizbangJr and Bogart Tri-Metric, iCharger i208B  dc-dc buck/boost converter with BMS for small form lithium 8S 16650 or LiFePO4,
  • clockmanfran
    clockmanfran Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭✭

    Amongst the Wind turbine folk in Europe, it is well known that the Tristar PWM dumpload option is superior to the Xantrex.

    The Xantrex has lag, you don't want lag on a Wind turbine when you get a mighty quick gust, and you certainly do not want it self disconnecting.

    The Tristar TS45 has a bank of DIP switches inside that you manually set for the diversion load. 

    For a wind turbine charging a battery you must have sufficient battery to clamp the Turbine and when you get that gust the Controller just dumps excess above the controllers charging settings. Without a clamp the turbine would just go 'supersonic' and then your picking up bits.

    I have 3off 12 footers, Hugh Piggott design, 10 years running,  I can be dumping up to 8kW with 4off TS45's for a brief second in a windy storm, and that's with a 48v 1300ah battery. My tristars are set at the same settings, but one will do the most work, and when that one maxes out another TS45 will step in.

    Tristars, TS45's flipping bullet proof, when maxed out it shows fault, and continues doing what it can, but never disconnects. 

    For wind turbines, The controller should be just monitoring and connected to the battery, if that battery voltage rises above the battery charge settings then the controller quickly dumps excess.  

    I use the Temp settings on my MPPT chargers 5kW of PV to battery to lower the charging rates than the TS45's, that way the PV gets switched down, if not then the PV can overwhelm the TS45's and your then dumping the PV power.

    My other 15kW of PV is Ac Coupled and back charges through the H Bridge Inverter, each one of the GTI's is set for sequential shut down depending on the Push back AC voltage raise or the Battery voltage.

    I also say with Wind Turbines , "Its like a wild bucking Horse on top of a pole wanting to kick everything to death, some times gentle, but then suddenly can kick so fast".

     

    Everything is possible, just give me Time.

    The OzInverter man. Normandy France.

    3off Hugh P's 3.7m dia wind turbines, (12 years running).  ... 5kW PV on 3 Trackers, (8 years) .... 14kW PV AC coupled using Used/second hand GTI's, on my OzInverter created Grid, and back charging with the AC Coupling and OzInverter to my 48v 1300ah batteries. 

  • FrancoPeru
    FrancoPeru Registered Users Posts: 1
    Dear sirs:

    Greetings, my name is Franco and I'm from Perú, SouthAmerica. This is my first time on this forum, if I am tresspassing or acting in any way not permitted by the rules of this site, please point it out that I may try to correct it. 

     I started a project with my family and another family in an area of the city in which the electric company nor the government want to connect us to the electric grid because "there aren't enough houses around to justify the costs of installation". Property is much cheaper here, but there is no electricity, water conection or sewage. Nontheless, we went ahead and built a house for them and a house for ourselves. We decided to go with "alternative energy" and be completely off-the-grid (there was the option of connecting to a neighbor that was connected to the grid in a sketchy way, but decided not to. We are honest resourceful people we are). 

    We started with solar panels, which worked wonderfully in summer; however, in winter there can be several cloudy days in a row and batteries go dead. We are relatively close to the coast, just behind a couple of hills, from the second floor of the house we can see the ocean, so we have decent winds (specially in winter when it gets cloudy). For a while my dad had been thinking that a wind turbine would be a good complement for our off-grid system. We found a way to bring from the U.S. two 500 Watt Wind Turbines form Missouri Wind & Solar. After informing ourselves and learning as much as possible (and dealing with all the discouragement and misinformation from people that think that wind turbines don't work) we set them up. This is our set up in one of the houses:

    - one second hand 12V 150Ah Narada battery (that has seen much abuse and misuse during the constutction of the house)
    - four 12V  150Watts solar panels (20Vmax &9Ampsmax)
    - one 12V chinese PWM/inverter...not sure about the controller part but the inverter is 700watts
    - two Xantrex C40 set up as dump controllers
    - two 0.4ohm heating elements (supposed to dump 504.1 watts at 35.5 amps when activated)
    - two 500Watt Missouri Wind & Solar Wind Turbines

     I have to say that the wind turbines work wonderfully. Of course they don't reach the 500 Watts...but on most cloudy windy days and throughout the night they produce a continuous flow between 3 and 6 Amps...with occational peaks of up to 8 amps. Since the Xantrex C-40s have been calibrated to absorb at 14.4 volts, the continuous input is of around 80 Watts each. This complements our system VERY nicely and on these test days haven't run out of energy on the battery.

    The solar panels used to go through the chinese PWM/inverter charge controller...but it does a very poor job of charging the batteries even though the sun is already out (just not in full sorce yet). So we decided to connect the panels straight to the battery and let the Xantrex controll the charge via the dump load. Both the wind turbines are also hooked straight to the battery. In theory, I know that as long as the incoming power from the panels and wind turbines is not greater than what the Xantrex C40s can handle, it should be OK.

    On a very windy day each wind turbine produces 8 amps max at 14.4V...which gives me roughly 100 watt each. On a very sunny day the four panels produce 22amps at 14.4 V which gives me roughly around 300 watt. So in total they are barely reaching the max power that one Xantrex C40 can dump out. I have two Xantrex C40s calibrated with a multimeter  to the same parameters. So question: My battery and controllers should be fine, right?

    One thing that happens is that one Xantrex reaches float sooner than the other...and so it tries to lower the voltage down to 13.5V while the other is still trying to absorb at 14.2V. As a consequence one heating element gets super hot and the other just turns on for a few seconds from time to time. This happens throughout the day if the battery is full, the sun is intense and the wind is blowing strong. Question: Is this OK? is there a way to calibrate it better so that one doesn't work more than the other? (as I can read from clockmanfran this seems to be normal).

    So far we have only used the system for LED lighs, light computer and speakers use, and occational power tools (500watt drill). We also periodically pump water from an underground cistern to an elevated tank (600watt pump). Now we want to upgrade our system to be able to use a fridge, washing machine, freezer, computers, etc ALL as low power consumption as possible (not sure how much wattage they will actually consume...but we'll keep it as low as possible). We are thinking adding four or eight new 150W pannels, getting a Victron MPPT 100/50 Smart Solar Charge Controller for the pannels and buying four 6V 600Ah Ultracell Open Lead Acid batteries (two series of two in parallel). Any suggestions?? We aren't thinking of changing to 24V yet...because the wind turbines are 12V and we would need to buy the 24V stator coils. Also, I'm not sure of which inverter to get yet...but probably one that can handle 3000 watts. 


    Thank you very much for all the knowledge share on the previous posts...and many thanks to whomever takes the time to read this and respond. Visit Peru, it's a beautiful land full of wonders and challenges, only for the strong and adventurous.

    God bless

    Franco 

    Hugh Piggott came to Peru several years ago and taught how to build and set up his turbines...I must've been a baby or not even born back then. How I wish I could get to see him and ask him a few questions...or a bunch. I can't find any information about his project here in Peru. It all seems to have "vanished"...