Phantom Loads - Oh my!

Graham Parkinson
Graham Parkinson Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭✭
in Energy Use & Conservation #1
Getting onto specing fittings for finish wiring for our off grid "cabin" (becoming a house now that we can't seem to do without those electronic thingys all the time):

When shopping for stuff, it's  really difficult to find info on phantom loads for things like digital countdown timers for code required ventilation fans (a watt for the "Off" LED? maybe better to just find an old fashioned wind-up fan timer somehow), digital multi-location dimmers (? Watts), and things required by code like arc fault breakers ( a few Watts each) , 120 VAC hard wired smoke detectors (? Watts).   Seems like no-one really wants us to know about these phantom loads.

We thought about using occupancy sensor light switches to save power but it seems that they draw several watts and would be a net loss compared to being frugal with turning off lights manually.  We were looking at the neat Lutron Maestro digital dimmers that allow using master slave ("companion") dimmers to dim lights from several locations on one circuit - but no info available if these dimmers have a phantom always on draw, which I suspect powers their "digitalness" via the neutral wire that these require.  Apparently some types of LED capable dimmers don't try to leak current through the LED's to power their internals when on as they don't get enough power this way so they are going to a separate supply via the neutral wire. Guess I'm going to have to call Lutron to see what the "off" loads are.

Has anybody got measured on any of this kind of stuff?

These types of loads are always connected  loads even when stuff is "off" so they can really add up when living off of a battery.

Speaking of "phantom loads required by code" I had an electrician actually tell me that even though we were off grid, if we installed our 120/240 VAC distribution panel in an "unconditioned space", we would actually have to install electrical baseboard heat below it .....

Offgrid in cloudy PNW

MacGyver'ed museum collection of panels, castoff batteries and generators - ready for state of art system install .... parade of surviving and dead generators: H650, Ryobi 900, Briggs and Scrap Iron 2000, H2200, H3000, Kubota 3500, Kubota 4500, Onan 7500

Tagged:
· Share on Twitter

Comments

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #2
    Welcome to the nanny state.   I was forced to install all the above, and fire sprinklers in an unheated garage.   Duh!  25F tonight, and 21F tomorrow night - do I leave one on all night ?

    Wait till the battery backed up, hard wired smoke alarms start to fail.  I had 5 or 6 go out in first 6 months.

    I assume all the mandatory loads are 5w each, easier than the research to find they are 3.7w  new models that don't ship till next year

    Enjoy
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

    · Share on Twitter
  • Graham Parkinson
    Graham Parkinson Registered Users Posts: 160 ✭✭✭
    #3

    Thanks Mike

    Folks on Lutron forum got back to me:  Maestro dimmers draw 0.6 W ea when off.  Lumea and Contour draw 0.0 W (mechanical off switch so no phantom loads)


    Cheers


    Offgrid in cloudy PNW

    MacGyver'ed museum collection of panels, castoff batteries and generators - ready for state of art system install .... parade of surviving and dead generators: H650, Ryobi 900, Briggs and Scrap Iron 2000, H2200, H3000, Kubota 3500, Kubota 4500, Onan 7500

    · Share on Twitter
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
    Graham Parkinson said:
    Speaking of "phantom loads required by code" I had an electrician actually tell me that even though we were off grid, if we installed our 120/240 VAC distribution panel in an "unconditioned space", we would actually have to install electrical baseboard heat below it .....
    Love to know the reasoning behind this?

    All my Mains have been outside in in conditioned space for 12 years. I worked in a camping community where all the mains were at the pole, I didn't notice any baseboard heaters under them...lol.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
    · Share on Twitter
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,819 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Photowhit said:
    Graham Parkinson said:
    Speaking of "phantom loads required by code" I had an electrician actually tell me that even though we were off grid, if we installed our 120/240 VAC distribution panel in an "unconditioned space", we would actually have to install electrical baseboard heat below it .....
    Love to know the reasoning behind this?

    All my Mains have been outside in in conditioned space for 12 years. I worked in a camping community where all the mains were at the pole, I didn't notice any baseboard heaters under them...lol.
    Pretty sure that "soyboy" is full of it. Electricity is one thing that seems to work regardless of the temperature. Though I seem to recall high temperatures reducing the conductivity of aluminum wiring by significant amounts. 

    Are we going to heat and a/c the grid next? I mean....it is almost all outdoors. #ExpensiveProposal 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
    · Share on Twitter

Categories