Thought my bundles of shingles were stiff from being frozen together. Many are melted together...

softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,879Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
Hurricane Irma removed most of the shingles and/or "weather proofing" from two Florida investment homes. That was last September by the way. Took four months for an estimate. Prices were almost double what I expected and contained several warnings about possible large cost overruns. 

I was delighted when I found many pallets of Energy Star (solar reflective) shingles at Habitat Restore for less than 1/2 price. Most of the bundles did not flex. I figured they were frozen and appreciated the ease in handling stiff bundles. I bought 3 1/2 pallets....over 3000 sq. feet of premium three tab 50 year shingles. 

Turns out that many, probably most, are somewhat melted together. Though it is possible that pressure did more to "glue them" together than ambient and solar  heat melting shingle tar. 

The shingles were exactly what I wanted from a quality, price, and energy star/reflective perspective. Being "melted together" will change everything of course.

Many times it has been possible to separate shingles that are a little melted together. Many times it is not possible, it is as if the tar has "set". I am hopeful that a very large diesel "garage" heater could be used to separate stuck shingles. 
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries

Comments

  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,879Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Joined a contractor forum hoping for some help. "Blocked" before I ever got to address the challenge. The left 40% of each page is covered with ads that I can not move or see through. Web site managers have become hyper controlling recently in my experience. One questionable position and boom...... instantly BANNED for life I guess.  Trump groups being a case in point. I suspect that some are managed by military guys who may regard a lack of blind obedience as an enemy to be slayed.

    Roofing doesn't seem to attract folks who opted out of a doctorate in quantum mechanics. Good times. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,757Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    Don't know what you said to piss them off so much (maybe you "deserved" it), but as a general comment, it does seem like a lot of groups seem to prefer an echo chamber of like minded thought to reasonable argument and understanding differing views.

    FWIW, I suspect given heat, time, and a lot of patience, the heat welded shingles can be separated. A garage heater would probably melt me before the shingles though, so I'd probably have at it in a cool, well ventilated garage with a heat gun or similar point heat device.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,879Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Estragon said:
    Don't know what you said to piss them off so much (maybe you "deserved" it), but as a general comment, it does seem like a lot of groups seem to prefer an echo chamber of like minded thought to reasonable argument and understanding differing views.

    FWIW, I suspect given heat, time, and a lot of patience, the heat welded shingles can be separated. A garage heater would probably melt me before the shingles though, so I'd probably have at it in a cool, well ventilated garage with a heat gun or similar point heat device.
    Couple theories on their very aggressive move:
    1) Just started using a VPN. Fair chance that a contractors board would evolve into an Ingsoc hangout. Ingsoc, without a doubt, hates VPN's. They incapacitated my last VPN pretty quickly. This one costs more so....we shall see. 
    2) My only post was regarding a contractor that did not get paid by a single female. I commented that that particular group seems to be known for being a bit more challenging. The odds that Ingsoc would place a female in charge of a contractors board are excellent. All the best homes were built by females. 

    Heat seems to be known for making stuck shingles worse. A heat gun would also take forever, there are thousands of shingles. I am considering a propane powered weed torch. A 6" flame exudes a lot more heat than a 1500 watt heat gun. 

    I have found some that seemed to be glued together yet were only held together by, it would seem, high pressure. As if pallets were stacked on top of each other for a long time. I once bought a copy machine that did not use heat to apply ink to paper. It used pressure instead. If it is mostly a case of pressure bonding then I have a better chance than tar bonding.

    The shingles were made almost two years ago. A lot of things may have happened. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,776Super Moderators admin
    As a moderator, seeing a vpn or server farms was a 99% chance of a spammer when combined with an "unusual" post. That was with the old forum software and various challenge questions.

    The new forum software we have been using the last year or two, has been really good at stopping spammers. Only a small fraction get through anymore. I am not sure what they are using for their filters.

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,879Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16 #6
    BB. said:
    As a moderator, seeing a vpn or server farms was a 99% chance of a spammer when combined with an "unusual" post. That was with the old forum software and various challenge questions.

    The new forum software we have been using the last year or two, has been really good at stopping spammers. Only a small fraction get through anymore. I am not sure what they are using for their filters.

    Bill
    So....pretty good chance the board automatically "blocked me" when it sensed a VPN. I'd buy that. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,879Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Logged into my VPN planning on trying to incapacitate it for the contractors board. It was "disconnected". What good is a VPN that isn't connected in default mode? Also....it is using Salt Lake City.....~NSA headquarters. Coincidence?
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,776Super Moderators admin
    At least from my limited experience, I only checked ip addresses if a post was not related to the forum. Nominally, most of those posts came through server farms (which have a USA location). They were not usually listed as VPNs r Us.

    I cannot really say what happened in your case.

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,879Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Looks like I got banned. My password does not work and they have not sent a link for a new password. 

    I'll bet a beer that a female with a graduate degree is in charge of the contractors forum. That would be completely in line with how neologic works. http://www.contractortalk.com/forum.php
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,776Super Moderators admin
    There is no reason for us to discuss the other forum's policies here. Just let it drop.

    There is no reason to ponder political affiliations either. We have no idea about theirs. And most people can get beyond pure political affiliations and talk about nut and bolt issues.

    Don't take things too personal. It is easy to misunderstand intent behind forum posts. And humor is difficult to achieve with an international audience.

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,669Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Use to live in Florida, I suspect they were donated for the write-off after discovering they were stuck together.  I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer. If that doesn't help, I've look for a subdivision being shingled and ask someone who looks like they are in charge. be sure to bring a translator if you don't speak Spanish!

    I know it's common to have the tar strip stuck to the other shingles. it's been easy enough in Missouri to twist the bundle after removing them from the wrapper. the wrapper helps hold them inn place. They have a fiberglass liner so generally they should pop apart. I know they could be well 'stuck' if they have sat in the Florida sun. but perhaps some a couple rows down won't be so bad....

    Good luck to you!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Posts: 1,009Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    You might have better luck popping them apart when cold. As Photowhit said, possibly, not all bundles are so badly stuck. I had a similar experience with asphalt shingles that were stacked, one pallet on another. Just a few of the bundles were fused but most were fine.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,879Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Photowhit said:
    Use to live in Florida, I suspect they were donated for the write-off after discovering they were stuck together.  I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer. If that doesn't help, I've look for a subdivision being shingled and ask someone who looks like they are in charge. be sure to bring a translator if you don't speak Spanish!

    I know it's common to have the tar strip stuck to the other shingles. it's been easy enough in Missouri to twist the bundle after removing them from the wrapper. the wrapper helps hold them inn place. They have a fiberglass liner so generally they should pop apart. I know they could be well 'stuck' if they have sat in the Florida sun. but perhaps some a couple rows down won't be so bad....

    Good luck to you!
    Twisting the bundle? That is a brilliant idea mate! Bet that works pretty well on the shingles that are either compression fused or just very slightly melted together.

    I think pallets were stacked on top of one another for some time. Thus forming a compression type fuse. That would explain the significant curvature found in each bundle....the curves following the surface of the tabs on three tab shingles.

    I may wish that I had not gone down this road. Already have several days invested in the project since I live about 225 miles from the place of purchase and have multiple trips invested. 

    I have a few weeks before departure. With good weather, I can work with each shingle and break down 74 pound bundles to ~50 bundles. At 59 years of age and a knee that flares up periodically, I would rather hump 50 pound bundles up a ladder. The old t-lock shingles were much easier to carry up ladders. In my prime I carried two t-lock bundles at a time. Though I was voted "Jolly Green Giant" of my esteemed high school.


    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,879Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    The shingles would appear to be over 90% usable....a guess of course. Turns out that the stiffness was indeed caused by being frozen. If I sound irregular it is because these shingles come from different batches and there is variation from bundles of bad shingles to the vast majority seemingly fine. 

    Anybody interested in riding to S Florida and enjoying some fine S Florida weather? Roofing pays well. Riding.....not so much. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
Sign In or Register to comment.