Tariff on Chinese panels........

First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries

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  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,754Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Happened today....I think.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,447Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    I got the idea that it's an across the board tariff on imported panels and cells, not just China. At least it's known and the industry can start moving again.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • OldManOldMan Posts: 21Registered Users ✭✭
    I haven't seen evidence of the tariff starting, yet, and I haven't seen anything in the NYT about it. What's up with it?
  • OldManOldMan Posts: 21Registered Users ✭✭
    Even with the tariff, my panels from China will cost less than from an American vendor. No one makes panels in the US, any more.
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,043Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    Per Bloomberg; 1st 2.5GW exempt, tarriff of 30% for a year, then dropping to 15% gradually over unspecified number of years.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,447Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Estragon said:
    Per Bloomberg; 1st 2.5GW exempt, ...
    If someone could explain this I'd be interested. I can't recall the numbers but thought we only installed 10 GWs per year...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,447Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    OldMan said:
    I haven't seen evidence of the tariff starting, yet, and I haven't seen anything in the NYT about it. What's up with it?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/22/business/trump-tariffs-washing-machines-solar-panels.html
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,555Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Some of the best are made here BTW. Prism one of the most beautiful bifacial panels in NY, Mission in Texas,and Panasonic also in New York and another plant I can't remember. Sunpower has headquarters in San Jose. The Tarif is what the 2 companies who were driven out of business from dumping below cost Suniva and ? wanted. It is less than what was wanted and phases out pretty fast also. 
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,447Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    It is less than what was wanted and phases out pretty fast also. 
    But, I think more than what was suggested. I think 20% was suggested after evaluation.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,555Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23 #11
    My read  is he took a middle ground so it depends on what is read. My info is from my suppliers who are biased for this.
    Their main goal was to take away a tax credit for buyers here that basically was subsidizing non US made cells and panels.

    I really do not like tariffs and I think companies will start coming back with the new much needed tax policy of the US government.


    I remember when Sunpower sent most all of there production out but kept the R & D in San Jose where I lived at the time. I hope they bring it back here with inexpensive energy a favorable business climate. Their panels are amazing for power per square foot, with a 25 year product warranty and internal connections that are triple redundant.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Posts: 812Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Can't say that I've researched this tariff at all but I am curious. Where is this money going? With the current administration's attitude on renewable energy I'd be surprised it would be going that direction.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,555Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    So what is their "attitude?" Have you researched it or are you reading the NY times:)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Posts: 812Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Neither Dave, Lets just say with Trumps Pro coal and offshore drilling, overland pipeline stance coupled with his feelings on global warming I concluded he's not real Pro renewable energy. Maybe I shouldn't assume such things. Still curious as to what happens to this tariff money?

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,213Super Moderators admin
    Constitutionally, tariffs are the original method of funding the federal government.

    http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h394.html

    The Constitution (text) gives Congress the power to collect duties and imposts (Article I, Section 8, Clause 1), but prohibits the imposition of export duties (Article I, Section 9, Clause 5).

    Things like income taxes and federal employment taxes were something later (and of questionable constitutionality).

    I am pro "green", but much of the federal and state laws+subsidies are "green washing". At best most are an environmental wash, and many are trashing the environment. And making for expensive and unreliable utility power.

    Early pollution control laws worked out well (once manufactures figured out how to make reliable clean cars once manufactures figured put how).

    For example, pipelines are much cheaper and safer than than trucks and rail cars. Look up "Warren Buffett cashes in on rail tank cars" as some folks blocked the northern pipelines.

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Posts: 812Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Offshore drilling and pipelines are safe, until they fail, Then they are usually catastrophic. 

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,555Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 23 #17
    The one part of the last FERC hearing a few weeks back I was hopeful for was hardening the grid. 
    But they rolled Coal subsidies and Nuclear in and we were lucky it did not pass. If there is anything that raises my neck hairs is an EMP with 40 reactors in the states. I mean way up the scale from an oil leak.  You better stay in Mexico that year!   --Dave

    "In its decision, the five-member energy panel essentially agreed with critics who said there was no evidence of a threat to the grid’s day-to-day reliability that would justify the emergency action Perry was seeking.

    An Energy Department report last year called reliability “adequate,” citing significant additions to the grid from natural gas, wind, and solar.

    FERC said in its decision that it is launching a new process to evaluate the resilience of the nation’s electric grid, which is overseen by a network of regional transmission organizations and independent system operators.

    Left: An independent energy agency on Monday rejected a Trump administration plan to bolster coal-fired and nuclear power plants, dealing a blow to President Donald Trump's efforts to boost the struggling coal industry. Photo by Chris Aluka Berry/REUTERS



    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,213Super Moderators admin
    Even big events have a mixed affect on the environment.

    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6029514

    (Crude) Oil is a natural product. There have been natural seeps forever and microbes have evolved to digest things like oil.

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,555Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Yep!  but none to digest plutonium :'(
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,043Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    > @Dave Angelini said:
    > Yep!  but none to digest plutonium :'(

    Yet. We'll be dust, but cockroaches will feast on our aftermath :smile:
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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