Controller and inverter suggestions

NewtronNewtron Posts: 5Registered Users ✭✭
I have 5 of these (battery)

WB-LYP260AHA LiFeYPO4 (3.2V/260Ah)

https://www.ev-power.eu/Winston-40Ah-200Ah/WB-LYP260AHA-LiFeYPO4-3-2V-260Ah.html

And 3 0f these (panel)
KYOCERA KC 158G
http://www.pro-umwelt.de/solarmodul-kc-158g2-158wp-p-103.html?language=en

Was thinking of a mobile power station on a trailer
I have a fair bit of electrical experience but could really use some suggestions on where to go with the charge controller ,inverter and anything else I might need. Thanks

Comments

  • NewtronNewtron Posts: 5Registered Users ✭✭
    Should this post be in another area?
  • Raj174Raj174 Posts: 609Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017 #3
    @Newtron
    Welcome to the forum, The size of inverter depends on what you want to power. A good brand would be a Samlex or a Cotek. The charge controller should be an MPPT type to get full potential out of the panels, as these are not standard 12 volt panels. The voltage is a little high and that will be lost with a PWM controller. For these panels in series I would recommend a Midnite Kid 30 amp MPPT controller. You will only be able to use 4 of your awesome 260AH LFP cells to make a 12 volt battery. I think 5 would be too high a voltage for the inverter to handle. These cells have to be top balanced if you don't use a BMS with them. Where you get the equipment may depend on where you are. Of course most places ship around the world at a cost.

    Rick
    12 x 300W Renogy PV, MNE175DR-TR epanel modified, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 54.4V 207AH HI Power LiFePO4 no BMS, 4000W gen.
  • karrakkarrak Posts: 277Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    A couple of questions,
    • Are the batteries new or second hand, if second hand how old are they and what have they been used for?
    • What are your power requirements
    • What do you know about BMS (Battery Management Systems) for these batteries
    Any charge controller needs to be programmable so that you can set the charge/bulk/absorb voltage to around 13.8V and the float voltage to  around 13.4V and disable temperature compensation. I haven't had any problems with the Chinese EPSolar ETracer MPPT controller. They also have some cheaper controllers that go under the name Epever.

    With any inverter it is good to be able to program the LVD (Low Voltage Disconnect) to around 12.0 rather than the standard 10.5V. It is also good to have a remote power off feature.

    An SOC (State of Charge) meter that works by measuring the charge going into and out of the battery with a shunt is also a good useful add-on. One that comes to mind is the Victron BMV700 or BMV712 if you want Bluetooth connectivity.

    Simon



    Off-Grid with LFP (LiFePO4) battery, battery Installed April 2013
    32x90Ah Winston cells 4p8s (24V), 4kW Latronics Inverter, 1160W of Solar Panels, homemade MPPT controller
    Homemade BMS https://github.com/simat/BatteryMonitor
     

  • NewtronNewtron Posts: 5Registered Users ✭✭
    karrak said:
    A couple of questions,
    • Are the batteries new or second hand, if second hand how old are they and what have they been used for?
    • What are your power requirements
    • What do you know about BMS (Battery Management Systems) for these batteries
    Any charge controller needs to be programmable so that you can set the charge/bulk/absorb voltage to around 13.8V and the float voltage to  around 13.4V and disable temperature compensation. I haven't had any problems with the Chinese EPSolar ETracer MPPT controller. They also have some cheaper controllers that go under the name Epever.

    With any inverter it is good to be able to program the LVD (Low Voltage Disconnect) to around 12.0 rather than the standard 10.5V. It is also good to have a remote power off feature.

    An SOC (State of Charge) meter that works by measuring the charge going into and out of the battery with a shunt is also a good useful add-on. One that comes to mind is the Victron BMV700 or BMV712 if you want Bluetooth connectivity.

    Simon



    Thanks for you response
    the batteries are probably 2 to 3 years old but were never used and the voltage was at 3.1 I believe last time i checked.
    power wise would like to run power tools or musical amps and speakers for outdoor concerts.
    I know very little about BMS but have practical and working knowledge of ohm's law and general electrical experience
  • karrakkarrak Posts: 277Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    My Winston 90Ah cells have a bar code and lettering on the top of each one. The lettering on one of the cells reads
    "WB-LYP90AHA 120920-Y43074"
    I am fairly sure that the number 120920 is the date the cell was manufactured and translates to 20th September 2012.

    If the cells are at 3.1V they have about 5% charge left in them. You are fortunate they weren't below 2.5V. If LFP batteries are left at 2.5V or less for extended periods it can ruin them.

    As your cells have been sitting around for a while I think it would be a good idea to do a capacity test on all five cells. I think the easiest way to do this is using one of the many charger/battery analysers that the RC (Radio Controlled planes etc.) crowd use. I have a Turnigy Reaktor 300W which will do this job and the all important initial Top Balance that @Raj174 mentioned earlier. This charger needs to be connected to a 12V-24V battery.

    There is a huge debate that rages about having a BMS or not having a BMS. I say that all Lithium Ion batteries need a BMS of some description. At one extreme the BMS could be a human being with a multimeter and a large power resistor to the other extreme of an electronic fully automated BMS.

    The two main critical functions of a BMS are
    1. To balance the individual cells to the same SOC, lead acid batteries can do this autonomously, lithium ion batteries cannot.
    2. Make sure that any of the individual cells can't go outside their safe operating voltage range, current range, and temperature range, which may lead to damage to the battery or in extreme cases the battery catching fire
    Simon
    Off-Grid with LFP (LiFePO4) battery, battery Installed April 2013
    32x90Ah Winston cells 4p8s (24V), 4kW Latronics Inverter, 1160W of Solar Panels, homemade MPPT controller
    Homemade BMS https://github.com/simat/BatteryMonitor
     

  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,709Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    karrak said:
    .....
    The two main critical functions of a BMS are
    1. To balance the individual cells to the same SOC, lead acid batteries can do this autonomously, lithium ion batteries cannot
    I believe that for Lead Acid batteries, an Equalizing Charge is required (in solar installs) or a long Absorb, or weeks of Float cycle.
     It does not happen on it's own.  As a cell reaches full, it simply gasses and encourages plate corrosion.  But Li cells go bang.

     Charge Controllers can be configured to do the EQ automatically (bad idea if that happens the day before the cells are due to be watered) or manually as needed.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • NewtronNewtron Posts: 5Registered Users ✭✭
    checked the voltage today all are right at 3.26.was actually surprised they were so close.

    The load will not be daily and i think 2 hours of juice is pretty awesome.

    My biggest first hurdle is figuring the additional equipment to make this work and manage the batteries ,is there an inverter that you might recommend sine/non-sine/?
    we are also going to use it for powering tools and lighting at remote sites.
  • karrakkarrak Posts: 277Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    The fact that all the cells are at 3.26 does not say much about how balanced the individual cells are. See this post for more information, I suggest reading the whole thread. That voltage does says they are all around 50% full.

    Your batteries will store about ~3.3kWh (3.25*260*4) of power which will give you a maximum of 3.0kW of power for one hour or 1.5kW for two hours.

    You need to know the amount of power your loads need and for what period of time, you mentioned lights, musical amps and speakers. How much power does all this equipment need in kW and how long will it be running?

    The other thing you need to know to work out the size of the inverter is what is the maximum surge current that the inverter will have to supply. The start up surge current of an AC motor can be up to ten times the current needed when the motor is running. What type of power tools will you be using? If it just a normal portable drill or small circular saw I would think a 1500W inverter would be sufficient. If it is a bench saw, welder or other equipment a more powerful inverter will be required.

    AC motors do not like modified sine wave inverters. I think it is worth spending the extra money on a pure sine wave inverter.

    You need some sort of BMS to keep your battery balanced and make sure that all the individual cells stay in their safe operating zone, have you done any research on this?

    Other equipment you will need besides the inverter is a couple fuses, one between the battery and inverter and one between the battery and charge controller, this Blue Sea Fuse block that fits on the battery terminal is a good choice.


    Simon

    Off-Grid with LFP (LiFePO4) battery, battery Installed April 2013
    32x90Ah Winston cells 4p8s (24V), 4kW Latronics Inverter, 1160W of Solar Panels, homemade MPPT controller
    Homemade BMS https://github.com/simat/BatteryMonitor
     

  • oil pan 4oil pan 4 Posts: 685Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Pure sine wave only. Everything else is junk and will damage your gear.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

Sign In or Register to comment.