Solar Controlers , Im baffeled

drfhm
drfhm Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭

14 years ago I installed an off grid solar system that has worked well for me , I had 600amp/hrs of Trojan batteries and my consumption has always been between 2000 and 2500 watt/hours every 24 hours split fairly evenly between the day time charging and night with no charge coming in . My batteries are fully charged by midday when the suns out and both my Solener ( good quaity Spanish make ) and Morning Star controllers ( both good quality and lasted 14 years so far without issue as I double check everything regularly with a multimeter ) float at 28.8 volts , I am assuming I am only taking about 25% at most from my battery bank ( 2500watts / 25v = 100amp/hrs , 600 / 100 = 15% + a generous allowance for anything not accounted for , equipment self use etc ) ( please correct me if I have that wrong as 2000-02500 watts is the cumulative total shown each day on my Solener 1.5kw watt inverter ) . The batteries have lasted 8 years showing no sign of failing however now winters here they are dropping to low late at night if they haven't had a full charge in the daytime so I have replaced them with 600 amp/hr Rolls 4 x 6v ( S605 ) I raised the SG to 1.280 after standing 24 hours as required when I first received and replaced my Trojans batteries with them but now after 10 days that has dropped to 1.21 , have not been able to get the SG of these batteries back up to the required figure , they remain around 1.20 -1.21 ( 10c ) Rolls have told me I need a Bulk/Absorption charge of 29.8 and a float volt of 27.6 which is greater than my present charge controllers can supply so I have looked to replace the 2 x 30amp ones with a single 65amp one and have found two reasonably priced ones that allow adjustment only of the Float voltage up to 26-30 volts , neither give the Bulk/Absorption figures which don't have any adjustment and the sellers have no idea either and the manufacturers can only supply the manuals which don't give it either which to me seems silly as I would have expected them to be an important factor , they have adjustable load parameters but are of no interest to me as I never take anything direct of them . I wish now I had looked an the charging voltages required for the Rolls batteries as seeing they are higher than I would have expected I would not have bought them , I expected considering they are not cheap to be compatible with other deep cycle batteries .My panel array is 1020 watts at 24 volts and when the sun is out which here in Spain is a good deal of the time the charge controllers show an input between them of 30 – 50 amps . Im sorry if i have gone on a bit but i wanted to give all the information that might be relevant in getting some help .Any advice which doesn't involve a large outlay for expensive controllers would be very much appreciated .

Comments

  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Do your existing controllers have an equalize mode? If they do, you may be able to get something close to the recommended charge voltage for now. The temp compensated voltages will be even higher. 30.6v bulk at 10°C

    If you have a generator you may want to bulk early in the morning with that and then finish with solar.

    As for replacement controller I've been happy with my Midnite Classics. There is something to be said for gettiing two smaller controllers (eg Midnite Kid) though in case of a failure.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    More information would be helpful. I suspect if this was setup 14 years ago, you likely have PWM charge controllers and that your array is setup in pairs of 12 volt nominal panels (there were some 24 volt panels as well, but not as common)

    These might have a hard time reaching the higher charging voltages, but they might be fine, without knowing the specs of the panels.

    Cheapest method would to use your current charge controllers if they are adjustable, you have said they aren't. This is likely. A Morningstar TS-60 would work for you. It is a 60 amp PWM charge controller that is adjustable to 14.8 or 15 volts (2x this for 24 volt systems, your parameters fall in the gap, but using 30 volts should be okay, might ask Rolls) And it can be further adjusted via computer.

    https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/TriStar-manual.pdf




    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • drfhm
    drfhm Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    edited January 2017 #4
    Thank you both so much for taking the time to reply , i can assure you it is very much appreciated as i am starting to loose sleep over the possibility of damaging brand new batteries after waiting weeks to afford them , i did give as much information as i thought would be needed but with so many variables its not easy to know what to include and what would not be of any help . I do have a generator but its only ever needed if we have a few days of bad weather . I cant force an equalization charge with either of my controllers . The Morning star one is a PS30 with no adjustable parameters and the Solener is also the same . The panels are good quality 24v x 1020watts in total and deliver over 41v  and Im sure sufficient as i have taken reading at the input to the controllers many times , the batteries have no problem reaching equalization charge when required however the time is to short at the higher voltage eqlisation gives , i need it to Bulk/Absorbe at almost at that voltage 29.8v  . My problem is that they are both preset to Bulk/Absorption charge to only 28.8 then they drop to float limited to 27.4 with an equalization charge of 30.2 , Rolls have said that these limits are to low for their batteries so i need a controller that can deliver more of the power the panels produce and not strangle the system with low set points . I have included a lnk to the controllers i am considering and the reviews i have read are not bad at all however the problem as i see it is that neither have adjustable voltage set points for Bulk/Absorption only Float , i still cant get my head around that or the fact they wont give the preset voltages for the pre set ones , the important ones ,if i used one of those im considering and set the Float to 30v then as how could they ever reach that voltage as the pre set voltages for Bulk/Absorption would surely be lower than that , every controller i have looked at show voltages below 29 volts , i am i missing something ? This is the reply from Rolls when i explained i cant raise the SG to anywhere near what it should be .   If there is any more information i can supply to assist then i can do so without any problem , after 14 years i have a reasonable knowledge of my system without even looking  . I have copied and pasted the reply from Rolls

    Reading through the below email string, it would appear that the charge voltages are a little low . We would recommend the following settings:

     Solar Controller:

     Bulk / Absorption: 29.8V

    Charger (or Charger / Inverter):

    Bulk / Absorption: 30.60V

    Charger Current: 50A

    Absorption time: 4 hours

    Equalisation: 31.8V

    Equalisation time:2.5 hours


    Below are the controllers i refer to , i think the two black ones are the same under different names with different shaped buttons....

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00ADKOMXI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3FI5N4141PBIU

    https://hehejin.en.alibaba.com/product/60419689438-803499343/Y_Solar_LD_60B_Solar_Panel_Controller_Double_Button_60A_12V_24V_Auto_Recognition_PWM_Solar_Charger_Controller.html

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CSDYFAM/ref=as_li_ss_tl?tag=shopperz_origin1-20&ascsubtag=872831092-2-1030739533.1485018100&SubscriptionId=AKIAJO7E5OLQ67NVPFZA


  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As Estragon has said you need to charge with a generator if that is what you have, Even at a lower voltage the batteries will charge, just slower. If your controllers switch to float, turn them off and back on may give you additional time in Bulk/absorb modes.

    Did you increase the size of your battery bank? Rolls S605 are 468ah (at a 20 hr rate, the standardized battery bank capacity so we can talk about charging rates) your 1020 watt array should produce about (1020x.75-80(voltage drop across charge controller)/24=) about 32 amps which would give you a charging rate of (32/468=) 7-8%. This would be a bit low for a system in daily use, it might be okay in your particularly sunny climate, but I would prefer more, the reason I asked if you have increased your battery bank size. The way people kill batteries is by undercharging them.

    If those charge controller don't work for you, you will want to find one that does, eliminate them from your choices.

    As I have said the Morningstar TS-60 PWM will work for your parameters,

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Morningstar-TriStar-controller-caravans-motorhomes/dp/B01N7QUMXX/ref=sr_1_15?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1485107819&sr=1-15&keywords=charge+controller+morningstar

    The MPPT version isn't much more expensive, but would require you rewiring your array, but would give you slightly more charging current.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Morningstar-TriStar-controller-caravans-motorhomes/dp/B01N9OKVEK/ref=sr_1_12?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1485107901&sr=1-12&keywords=charge+controller+morningstar
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • drfhm
    drfhm Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Again thanks for your reply , i haven't increased my batteries bank size only the make of batteries , in fact nothing has changed at all in many years , every part of my system remains the same , my consumption is the same as its always been so i know i produce more than sufficient power to replace what i used the previous night as was always the case . The only difference now is that the Rolls need a higher voltage Bulk/Absorption and Float than my previous batteries . Charging with a generator would not be practical and seems silly considering i have create sufficient power during the day to cover my consumption , the simple fact is that the controllers i have are holding the voltage back and i dont understand why the controllers i have looked at dont give the relevant important information , i feel sure i must be missing something but i dont know what . The batteries wont charge at lower voltage , only up to the set points of the controllers however long they are left charging . I have tried turning them on and off and thats also not really very practical as the system has been running perfectly well for years without intervention , the batteries requiring a higher charge voltage is whats created my problem now . The controllers send 30-50 amps to the batteries each hour though for most of the day 40 amps an hour . I can see from the cumulative total on one controller that the batteries are receiving more in than going out , i put this down to self usage of equipment . I really dont think power generation is my problem .
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm NOT saying THAT POWER GENERATION IS YOUR PROBLEM, the batteries are NOT charging. by your measurement of the SG. If they are cycling into float, a lower voltage. They will be less capable of transferring energy to the batteries. If they are in Bulk/Absorb they will hold a higher voltage and some charging will happen.

    IF YOU DON"T CHARGE YOUR BATTERIES THEY WILL FAIL! Yes I'm shouting. I don't want you to lose the money you have spent on the batteries. Higher voltage will help with the transfer of energy to the batteries, even if you can not reach the desired voltage. It will be better than nothing, which is pretty much what you have when they are held at a float voltage. If they are maxing out at a SP of 12-12.1 they are sulfating and need help fast!

    I suspect that these cheap PWM charge controllers are designed with out many if any adjustments.

    I'm not familiar with the companies in your area, Victron makes some good quality charge controller, but it doesn't look like any of their PWM CC are adjustable. They make MPPT type, that would be a little cheaper than Morningstar, and are adjustable, but you would need to research what is available. These would also mean reorganizing your array.

    https://www.victronenergy.com/solar-charge-controllers
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • drfhm
    drfhm Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Shout away , your right , would be stupid to risk the new batteries so i have headed your advice and wll order one of these in the morning    https://www.amazon.es/gp/product/B01M0X8ACL/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ABG7KVG2RA4KC  , i think its the one you sent a link for except this one seems to have an LCD panel which i would be lost without , apart from that i cant see any difference , maybe its an older model  , if you see im wrong please tell me , have a few hours before they open in the morning . Until i deal with the issue Im going to run my generator for a few hours a day to keep the batteries up to 31v , i only have a 20amp charger and its not regulated so it just keeps going up to 31-31.5 which is its maximum output . With my old batteries if they did run out sometime in the evening on an overcast day i would run it for an hour , maybe one and a half hours and that would give sufficient power to the batteries to last for a few hours . Wouldn't put any more power into them as i didnt want to fry them . I found the Morning Star website brilliant especially for tech info and downloaded the manual to the TR-60 and it appears to be adjustable for Bulk/Absorption , Float and equalization and even correction for temperature as its cold here for 3 months of the year and i moved here from UK thinking like everyone its always hot and sunny , sunny it is but up in the hills it gets very cold .
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #9
    Beware of the fine print on the charge controller.  The digital meter is usually NOT included, but shown as an OPTION in the united states, all the pics show the meter on the controller, and optional is in the fine print

    However, the blinky light the PWM models come with, give good indication of charge level.
    The 60A MPPT model has a web server internally, and a browser will show you all sorts of readings and info, without the optional LCD meter panel.  But the 60A MPPT Tristar is lots more $$
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • drfhm
    drfhm Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    I have found the website of the company that is selling them and they are in Valencia Spain , not worth the 4 hour drive but delivery should be quick . Registered and messaged them asking clearly if the LCD panel is included as in the photo , their add on Amazon shows it to be included with no reference to it being an extra so i think they would have a problem explaining to a customer after it had been delivered that it wasn't included without a disclaimer of some sort . Think the model im thinking of also has the web thing                " This product is an Ethernet gateway that provides web monitoring services,
    a Modbus TCP/IP server, and a local web page server. End users can
    collect information about their off-grid PV system remotely. One EMC-1
    supports all products with MeterBus ports by bridging MODBUS TCP/IP
    requests to serve LiveView pages for each product "

    i also noticed it can be plugged into a laptop and everything done through that , well thats how i read it unless thats something else that has to be purchased . " USB Communications Adapter (UMC-1)
    A modular unit that uses a USB-B plug, usually from a USB A-B
    computer cable, and an RJ-11 plug to connect with a Morningstar
    controller’s MeterBus port, for monitoring and programming using
    MSView PC software .

    Dont want to go down the MPPT route , think i would prefer to buy more panels if i needed more input , lot less work for me and PWM has stood the test of time , i also have a lot of faith in the Morning Star products , A 5 year guarantee is a lot better than the 12 months you get in the UK .




  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sweet, if all that is in it.  I thought the PWM models were bare bone.
     There are some specific serial - USB port adapters that work (cheap too)
     but need to be completely compatible with the RS232 spec, including providing + & - power supplys

    http://www.morningstarcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/MS-Comm-Document-2010.pdf
    Page 12 is USB-Serial
    It has been reported that some USB to Serial adapters will not
    work with either the MSC or our controllers.
     This is usually due to the adapter output voltage being below the
    RS-232 electrical specification. Section 11.0 Troubleshooting explains this further.
    Recommended:  Tripp Lite USB / Serial DB-9 Adapter: Tripp Lite U209-000-R

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks good to me, I hope I haven't lead you astray, Morningstar makes very good equipment and this unit has been made for a long time with a good reputation. Sounds like you've down loaded the manual and are getting ready to set it up!

    Sorry for being a rude. I suspect English is a 2nd language for you, and you seem very fluent, while I have a hard time using the poor grasp of English that I have.

    Best of luck to you, I'm glad you are addressing this now. We have heard of people not realizing the difference in charging requirements and trying to regain battery capacity lost to sulfating build up.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #13

    mike95490 said:
    Beware of the fine print on the charge controller.  The digital meter is usually NOT included, but shown as an OPTION in the united states, all the pics show the meter on the controller, and optional is in the fine print

    However, the blinky light the PWM models come with, give good indication of charge level.
    The 60A MPPT model has a web server internally, and a browser will show you all sorts of readings and info, without the optional LCD meter panel.  But the 60A MPPT Tristar is lots more $$



    When I purchased mine, Canada, the meter was not included, neither is a remote temperature sensor, been very happy with it otherwise. Judging from the price, the meter should be included.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • drfhm
    drfhm Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Just when you thought it was safe to go outside and im back . After several hours of trying to contact this company to speak to someone that speaks English i finally got the answer i was looking for .As expected the digital display is not included , they emailed me to say that the cost of the display was 169 euros although on the website its 101 euros . While looking through the Chargers for sale at this company i found another with what i think are the same adjustments however i have no knowledge of the manufacturer other than i have heard the name Tracer from years ago . Could i be really cheeky and ask for an opinion on this unit , to me it looks like its comparable but half the price , i did see on the manufactures website ( its German i think which is often a sign or quality ) its a discontinued model so possibly theres a bargain to be had . The T-60 has the benefit of being able to be monitored via a laptop but not sure if that alone is worth the additional cost , my overall propriety is to protect and charge my batteries however i dont want to jump into making the choice when im fortunate enough to ask for a more informed input ( no pun intended ) . 

     http://www.efimarket.com/regulador-c60a-12-24v-schneider
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #15
    Why not order from the host's store, including shipping, the meter and RTS, you might still be ahead, check it out, it may be the way to go in the global economy. The TS60 is a good piece of kit, if PWM is what you want, you can't do much better.  Around $300 €280 for everything plus shipping, not too shabby.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • drfhm
    drfhm Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Wish they were here in Spain none of the businesses here can come anywhere near their prices , unfortunately having anything sent here from outside Europe and customs are a real headache especially if its from the US . Not only is it the additional cost at customs but you have to jump through hoops to get your parcel , your on a strict time limit to get whatever they require and make the payment into a local bank and post the proof off to them . There have been so many horror stories about goods being returned by customs because the recipient couldn't get the paperwork to them in time . Without customs even including shipping the savings would well worth while but the hassle and delay simply makes it a non starter . The wife's off to visit her brother in Texas later in the year so will be looking to see if i want anything bringing back , meter panels are the first thing that come to mind , not as urgently needed as the Charge controller .
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #17
    The C60 is a reliable unit and  has been around a long time. I think the Morningstar was built to compete!(I think it started out as a relay based unit before Trace became Xantrex and purchased by Schneider!)

    Schneider still lists the unit on their web site (I think someone here has said the C series is no longer made but I don't know)

    http://solar.schneider-electric.com/product/conext-c-series-pwm-charge-controller/

    Here is a direct link to the manual;
    http://cdn.solar.schneider-electric.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/c-series-manual-975-0004-01-02-rev-d_eng.pdf

    The voltage range is set on the board, and it is adjustable to 30 volts. I think this would work for you and thought I might have mentioned it. It's a bit simpler than it use to be, but still a bit arcane by todays standards, it appears to be adjustable by hand now, I think I had to use a mini screw drive and twist a pot and meter resistance back in the 90's.

    We have had someone here looking for the display units (perhaps that is who had said they weren't building the C series any longer) I would read up on the computer interface, it might be that someone has figured out how to make a display or interface for the C series. Like this guy;
    https://youtu.be/K-bAgjBjBXE

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The lcd faceplate meter is no longer available except for the occasional used one on ebay for ridiculously high prices. They do still make the remote meter.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #19
    Midnight Solar also produces a 30A PWM controller, but only LED display, no meter
    $125 US  60VDC max PV input
    STOCKING DISTRIBUTORS: Eurosolarnet S.L.

    Ap Correos 344, 12500 Vinaroz
    Cta. Ulldecona 20 Nave 2B

    Spain Ph: +34 964 042 051
    Email: info@eurosolarnet.com
    www.eurosolarnet.com

    http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=615&productCatName=Charge Controllers - Brat&productCat_ID=49&sortOrder=1&act=p

    PS
     a volt meter, is fun, but it does NOT tell you what the state of charge of the battery is, unless the battery has sat idle (no loads, no charging for several hours), to let the voltage stabilize. After 3 hours, you get a good idea, after 6 hours idle, it's pretty accurate.
    The front panel LED for status are enough, and you can always buy a DVM if you want to see numbers.

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • drfhm
    drfhm Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Thank you Mike , i started off basically complaining about the lack of information given by company's manufacturing or supplying what i desperately need , now im suffering from Data overload , all welcome information and overall a very pleasant experience .Only been a member for 24 hours and learnt so much , the two that immediately spring to mind are .

    1/  Go for established company's selling proven equipment , they appear to cover everything , guess they have nothing to hide .

    2/ I should have stayed on at school beyond the age of 15 , from my posts someone concluded that English was not my first language but was kind enough to soften it a bit by complimenting my apparent grasp of it . I would be flattered if it was not for the fact that English is my first language , im 100% English from English stock 50 years born and bread prior to the last 15 in Spain .  I have always said that if a word has more than 4 letters in it and i spell it correct , its a coincidence . Not only have i been receiving invaluable advice but had a good chuckle along the way , haha  .
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    After going through all the posts, and looking at your setup, I think that 2 of the BRAT PWM controllers would be good for your situation, if the vendor can supply them.
     
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    drfhm said:
    ...someone concluded that English was not my first language but was kind enough to soften it a bit by complimenting my apparent grasp of it . I would be flattered if it was not for the fact that English is my first language...

    ...Not only have i been receiving invaluable advice but had a good chuckle along the way , haha  .
    Sorry, I only inferred due to your location, and I felt I had been rude and was looking for anything I could say to make amends...
    ...looks like I stepped in it again! Glad you rolled with it! Welcome to the group!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    Midnight Solar also produces a 30A PWM controller, but only LED display, no meter
    Mike, The Midnite Brat, their 30 amp PWM charge controller, only has limited charging profiles. Perhaps you were one of the Guinea pigs, I think they had a flashable memory in the test units, but I never had one. Here is from the manual;
    https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/brat_manual.pdf


    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Going back to Morningstar, have you tried asking them who is the closest vendors are, I asked this of them and they put me in contact with 3 in Thailand, so one would think there must be some in Spain, or elsewhere  in the EU.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • drfhm
    drfhm Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Well bit the bullet and sent of for a Morningstar TS-60 PWM as i dont need the extra that a MPPT would give me , certainly dont want the hassle of re configuring my panel array . Now i want advice form anyone with experience of the Serial connector , RS232 to Ethernet , has to be MODBUS to convert the stored log file and settings to a PC , I know i can plug my laptop directly into it using an RS232 to USB but it would be impracticable , i will need to read remotely via a LAN or WAN and for that another piece of equipment is requires . Morningstar now make one but its not widely available and the replies i have form wholesalers is that its to expensive and they doubt they would sell and those that are using these solar controllers and want LAN connection have already bought 3rd party equipment , unfortunately none can tell me what they have been buying which is the reason for my post , anyone know ? .The advantage of a 3rd party converter is that its not dedicated to Morningstar products , Morningstar do point out in one of their 45 minute videos launching the product that not all MODBUS equipped controllers wil read and pass the information without corrupting some of it which is a concern .

    Morningstar give a couple by a major manufacturer in there documentation published prior to them releasing one of their own but they are expensive ( more then the cost of the TS-60 ) . I have watched many videos on setting up the MPPT and anything else that might help but the MPPT has already got Ethernet included so it doesnt require the converter .

    Thought of many bodges but none will work , a long USB from the outhouse where the Charge controller is situated to the house is far to long ( more than 5 meters ) , a lot more . Remote desktop set up with a laptop connected by a RS232 to USB in close proximity to the charger and a second to read from it remotely , wife wont let me have hers and even if she did then it would have to be left running 24/7

    If only Spain had the availability of products that you have it would be wonderful , unfortunately there is less solar people about now since the Law was passed charging end users for what they produce to encourage them to pay extortionate prices to connect to the national grid and do away with their solar or wind systems . many have kept quiet and not registered their systems but the 3 million euro fine for not doing so is what they risk . There are however an abundance or second hand panels and equipment now for sale from dismantles systems . Dont know about the whole world going mad , if it is then Spains leading the way .
     




  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sounds like something you could do with a small cheap project computer - eg. Raspberry Pi hooked up to the controller to read modbus etc. w/wifi to LAN. The hardware might run around €40, and software is likely out there somewhere for free.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • drfhm
    drfhm Registered Users Posts: 17 ✭✭
    Dont have the know how to take that on , very little computer knowledge on software and configuring any none standard piece of equipment unless it has step by step child instructions . Already taken WiFi out of the equation , bought and tested a power adaptor and it works brilliantly , just need something to read the Charge control and send on the data corrupted and in a readable manor so that WSViewer and Morningstars server can read it . got everything from the charge controller to the internet with just the one missing link , between the RS232 and the Lan cable into the Laptop .
  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #28
    Maybe this would work, it is a usb 2 over cat5 extender balun set. On the controller side it would connect to the RS232 to usb adapter and on the other end it would connect to the laptop with up to 150 feet of cat5 cable in between. 
    I would use cat6 cable for this setup.

    http://www.showmecables.com/product/usb-20-over-cat5-extender-balun-480-mbps-200-ft.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=47-400-024&gclid=CL3q-6z649ECFZE7gQodsncDDA

    Rick
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.