Bare copper vs tinned copper for battery lugs?

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  • solorone
    solorone Solar Expert Posts: 257 ✭✭✭
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    The test of time is always a good one Solorone!
    Time, gives  time to make things work right, even if you do not know what you are doing, but survive anyway.

    I see solar expert by my name,  surely do not need that.:smile:    Heck I know very little of todays tech, and had to learn some very  very  $ $ lesson along the way.
    The prices for solar is cheap as chips today, with the exception of batteries.  It is really cool to have seen the expansion of solar into the main stream of life.  When I first logged on here I really expected to hear from others that had gone off grid in the early 80s or late 70s.  I wonder where they all are ??
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
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    I know where some of them are up here in the Sierra  :)
     Many of them do not want to be found and I have to go through all kinds of red tape to keep them incognito, meeting them in weird places. They usually have me out to the house but after they know me better.
    Sometimes I can't tell if they are trying to make drugs and they are the ones that really scrare me.
    Zero tolerance and zero business with druggies, I am happy to say.

    I disagree with you on L16 flooded batteries. They were arround $300 15 years ago and still about the same tracking the price of lead.
    Before that, they were pretty hard to find then. Now you can find them in 2V versions for arround the same price if you shop.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • solorone
    solorone Solar Expert Posts: 257 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016 #34
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    So the folks back then going solar were early Prepper's ?? Maybe they moved on from weed to chemicals. I though there would be some normal folks around though.  Well when I think about it I guess I am not normal at all.

    I was out trimming back limbs from my road in, and thinking about the solar forum, it dawned on me that, and I am not being sexist here for I am sure the ladies these days may be the instigator/builder of a solar setup,,, but really when you stop and think about it,,, you really need a special lady, frontier type.  heck I never said it, it just happened, but hay lady lets go build  a big house in the woods no power no heat, make do with a 9" TV and make toast on a wire frame over a gas stove, for several years  weekly haul cloths to coin laundry, making do with what we had.  takes a special kind of lady.  I got real lucky.

    Geez Dave, 2 volt   L 16 !  I see a 1100 amp setup.   At least they would be easier to move around.  I saw some DEKAs for  about $330 in standard  6 V.  I used L 16s  (Trojans ) 1 time, can't remember how long they lasted, seems like it was short though, maybe 5 years.  We grabbed up 4 sets of telephone batteries, some for friends,  one set was 1000 A   (@220 #  each )  another was 400 A.  Way back when,  before we put such huge demand on our  batteries with inverters, these were the things to get. I salvaged the 2 sets and a set of Rolls about 4.5 tons for .42 and they came and got them. Truth was I would have paid them to take them away . :smiley:
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
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    Maybe back in the day you needed a special lady to do this but there is no reason now (other than reasonable money) to not have conditioned space, make toast whenever, and watch the news on a 65" screen. 

    I do agree that a special lady is good for most all of us. Mine even had the idea to go cruising on the ocean in a 41' Ketch.

    Here is a toast to not being normal  B) 
    Half of my early 70's high school class is dead or incarcerated, maybe that is where the old hippies went?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • solorone
    solorone Solar Expert Posts: 257 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016 #36
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    Early 70s, hum, that movement was starting to die out then. These old hippies were quite successful,  those I knew were not in the criminal arena, most are respected folks and professionals, a few like myself have one foot each in different lives, myself, I am Mr. Tom in my county, and I  am leading a revolt in  county government taking down 3 officers and working on number 4 Nov 8.

    True, life with today's solar is awesome,  air conditioning,  big TV like you said,  and a modern kitchen, don't even have to use a percolator for my coffee just wish I had had better vision when we built our home, more AC outlets, and have not wired DC outlets in with  some DC  lights, a  larger area for all this unbelievable hardware.


    You are lucky to have an adventurous lady, sailing sounds like fun, mine wife has always been up for most anything we even hiked 220 miles of the AT with a 5 and 7 YO, yes they made it all the way. Here's to your toast to not being normal and our fun loving ladies .
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Aren't all the UL certified crimp lugs, tin plated copper, to prevent oxidation prior to crimping?
      Does crimping (even with a good hydrualic tool) get rid of copper oxide ?
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2016 #38
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    Mike I have never seen a battery cable that was listed with bare copper lugs so you are probably right. The listing is usually the cable part but the terminal could be also involved, I never have looked at the code for this or can't remember.
    As for getting rid of copper oxide, if you shine up the bare copper lug with a brush, freshly cut off the end of the cable, use a good tool to crimp the connection and heat shink for a seal, you should be good for a long time. I just can't make them as cheap as my supplier of the cable sells them for, especially with inexpensive world labor sources. Arround 90 systems now and zero problems, other than people telling me they checked the torque and told a white lie.

    Also for good appearance, the tops of the battery and the terminal should be wiped off at least by-monthly with a very wet rag on flooded batteries.

    Thanks for brining this back on track. I was affraid I was going start my story about seeing the Suppremes instead of the Beatles at the cow palace in the City.

    Tom, the moderator is http://forum.solar-electric.com/profile/BB.

    BB can help but in your profile are settings for turning on e-mail notifications.  You can do it!


    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I'll have to take a shot of my bank, I guess the cables have been on for 5 years, and they still look as fresh and new as install day.  
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • cow_rancher
    cow_rancher Solar Expert Posts: 117 ✭✭✭✭
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    Does anyone silver solder their lug connection after crimping, that would seem to me as the most reliable, is there a problem with that?

    Rancher
  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭
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    Does anyone silver solder their lug connection after crimping, that would seem to me as the most reliable, is there a problem with that?

    Rancher
    High heat can melt the solder. What I've read anyway. We have some old pros who tend to think we are building something akin to nuclear power plants with 1000 ways to detonate. I kid. Well...
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
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    If you have the time to spend do it. The heat shrink is all I would use. As long as it is done right.
     I just would not want someone within wildfire distance of me making jokes about electrical safety. I am not kidding!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2016 #43
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    here's the link to my pictorial about building adapters for the giant battery terminals on my 800ah bank
    http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
     used regular copper plumbing 1" pipe, tinned w/ 50/50 solder, flattened, punched,  tinned again, used listed lugs and installed them "sandwich" style into the adapters with SS locking hardware.  That was fall 2011, now it's fall 2016, and still looking good.
    I had to use these as "Jumpers" each time the battery bank turned a corner and the hard links did not reach, And adapters for the kill switch, and inverter ePanel connections.

    EDIT  - fixed link

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    URL link not working. Bummer, this I wanted to see.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    fixed the link in the original to http://tinyurl.com/LMR-BigLug
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • softdown
    softdown Solar Expert Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2016 #46
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    Nice looking work Mike...that hydraulic battery crimper must have cost a few bucks.

    This is what I do about fire danger:
    1) Store distilled water jugs above batteries.
    2) Keep large fire extinguishers close by.
    3) Use steel siding and roofing throughout.
    4) Use firewall rather than drywall.
    5) Score 96 on Firefighter I exam.
    6) Keep a rope on the disconnect.
    7) Live in alpine desert. Not enough fuel for fire to spread.
    8) Deploy smoke alarms throughout.

    " I just would not want someone within wildfire distance of me making jokes about electrical safety. I am not kidding!" I still have not seen fuses/breakers on every cable on any installation in any book or the real world. So your place is going to burn down if your rules are not followed? OK.


    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
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    " I just would not want someone within wildfire distance of me making jokes about electrical safety. I am not kidding!" I still have not seen fuses/breakers on every cable on any installation in any book or the real world. So your place is going to burn down if your rules are not followed? OK."

    I have no idea what you are talking about.  Please explain because I never said that.  What I did say to someone back in this thread that had an inverter that was powerful enough to require 4/0 battery wiring, "if they use 2/0 make sure that the breaker/fuse is the correct one to protect the cable"  Their manual would call for a breaker assumming they had 4/0! Roger?

    Looks like you are in good shape for a fire. The topgraphy where I live is a 10 for insurance cost from Google. Just about as dangerous as it gets! We don't joke about it here at all.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • Marc Kurth
    Marc Kurth Solar Expert Posts: 1,144 ✭✭✭✭
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    The test of time is always a good one Solorone!

    Wisdom in those words!


    I always have more questions than answers. That's the nature of life.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,746 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
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    How about this one Marc,
    Sometimes I sits and thinks, sometimes I just sits....
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net