48 volt battery chargers

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verdigo
verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
in Grid Tie and Grid Interactive Systems #1
In the process of looking for a battery charger. Beginning with NAWS I found that 15 amps seems to be the limit in what they have for sale. Same with E bay except you might find a few golf cart chargers capable of 17 amps. Am I missing something?

My intent is to have something that will recharge 464 ah of battery bank and to possibly provide some generator assist via a battery charger powered by my generator in the event of a grid outage. I have an Outback G inverter and my generator freq probably won't be clean enough to try a generator assist.

I have also been wondering if the inverter would use my non-inverter generator as 'AC In" to recharge batteries.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers

    If you have a 48 Volt inverter chances are you already have a 48 Volt charger built-in. There is no need for a stand-alone battery charger. This is why you don't see many.

    Your GVFX may not have any trouble with a non-inverter type generator. It depends on how stable the gen's output is against the varying loads.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers

    I'd set the ACin at 5 amps and that way the generator support would help you on loads until you see how tolerant to loading is. Keep the loads to a minimum. Set the charger to minimum amps or shut it off until you see if it will stay qualified. You may be able to adjust the governor to help stabilize it.

    I run mine on a 20 KW non-inverter generator, but it is big enough it doesn't fluctuate much and has a 2-3% AVR. I keep the loading light until it all gets stabilized. With the Mate you can change things on the fly, so you can raise it up a amp or two at a time.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers
    verdigo wrote: »
    Beginning with NAWS I found that 15 amps seems to be the limit in what they have for sale.
    <snip>
    Am I missing something?
    Quite a bit.
    You need to get out of the consumer market and look at industrial chargers. For starters, look at forklift battery sites.

    Note: most industrial chargers do NOT use the familiar bulk-absorb-float charging protocols that are used in RE systems, but in all likelihood you will only be bulking up your batteries with generator power (huge waste of fuel to float a battery with a generator).

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • verdigo
    verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    #5
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers

    Thanks. This gives me something new to play with while waiting on the electrician, the inspector, and a KU (Kentucky Utilities) guy to align their schedules to come over and approve (or not) my plan to hook-up to the grid. I was under the impression that non-inverter generators were a solid no-go for generator support with G inverters. The grass and the garden have my attention for the rest of today though.

    Next weekend maybe.

    Dennis
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers

    If I understand the UL 1741 specifications it's the HZ that cause the issue and they are not adjustable within the Inverter. They are like 59.3 to 60.8 HZ. That is very hard to hold on a non-inverter generator since the hz, and volts are all dependent on the RPM of the generator on most small generators.
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  • verdigo
    verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    #7
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers

    Well I can give it a try, and if the inverter drops it I will be looking for an adequate charger or an inverter generator later on. I was thinking it might be okay using the inverter's charger without additional loads as it might be a more stable draw or slower changing anyway keeping the frequency more stable.

    I am relatively new to solar and have never given much thought to generators beyond just being able to support a given load or not.

    Thanks for the input.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers
    vtmaps wrote: »
    Quite a bit.
    You need to get out of the consumer market and look at industrial chargers. For starters, look at forklift battery sites.

    Note: most industrial chargers do NOT use the familiar bulk-absorb-float charging protocols that are used in RE systems, but in all likelihood you will only be bulking up your batteries with generator power (huge waste of fuel to float a battery with a generator).

    --vtMaps

    And these chargers will need more than 120V 15A circuits. Even the Iota will max out a 15A circuit
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

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  • verdigo
    verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    #9
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers

    Sort of nixes the idea of running one of these off a smallish generator.
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  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers
    verdigo wrote: »
    Sort of nixes the idea of running one of these off a smallish generator.
    Why ?? all you do is go to your Mate and set your ACin and max charge amps and you can run it off a 1,000 watt generator. You also have Generator Support to pull in as much as you want. If you want to run say a Air Conditioner the Generator Support will kick in and power it along with the Generator and when the compressor cycles off it will go back to charging, what you have is made for a small generator.

    A non-Inverter Generator may be a problem though. That you have to test.
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    Why ?? all you do is go to your Mate and set your ACin and max charge amps and you can run it off a 1,000 watt generator. You also have Generator Support to pull in as much as you want. If you want to run say a Air Conditioner the Generator Support will kick in and power it along with the Generator and when the compressor cycles off it will go back to charging, what you have is made for a small generator.

    A non-Inverter Generator may be a problem though. That you have to test.

    BC04,
    I think verdigo is talking about running a 240 volt standalone battery charger off a small generator. --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers

    Or any charger that draws more than the generator can supply; the gen will be the limiter on power.
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  • verdigo
    verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    #13
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    Re: 48 volt battery chargers

    I'll be trying out the GVFX's charger before buying a stand alone charger. I wasn't under the impression it would work though. I'll know one way or the other this weekend.
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