Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?

Chris
Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
So.....my a my Father in-law hooked the out put from his new inverter to the wrong side of the transfer switch (feeding 120 into the geny's out put)
This was last falls and the system hasn't been used since. At the time the only thing that happened was the breaker on the inverter popped......but now this spring, the generator won't stay running for more then a few seconds after releasing the starter button......could he have fried the generator's out put controls?

It's a Onan 4kw built into his motor-home.
· Share on Twitter

Comments

  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #2
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?

    oh...and no magic smoke was observed escaping either device :roll:
    · Share on Twitter
  • Rybren
    Rybren Solar Expert Posts: 351 ✭✭
    #3
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?

    Hey Chris.

    Sorry, I can't offer anything useful in response to your question, but I figured I'd say hi.

    How's the tank going?
    · Share on Twitter
  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?

    Hi Jerry,

    The tank was going great last week when I visited it
    The wifey would only let me have one expensive hobby at a time, so sold the tank a few months back and bought 4 new batteries, charge controller WBjr and MBTS

    You still have yours up and running?
    · Share on Twitter
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    #5
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    Chris wrote: »
    So.....my a my Father in-law hooked the out put from his new inverter to the wrong side of the transfer switch (feeding 120 into the geny's out put)
    This was last falls and the system hasn't been used since. At the time the only thing that happened was the breaker on the inverter popped......but now this spring, the generator won't stay running for more then a few seconds after releasing the starter button......could he have fried the generator's out put controls?

    It's a Onan 4kw built into his motor-home.

    I cannot give you any guarantees one what or the other, but if the generator was not running at the time the inverter was turned on and popped the breaker, there is a pretty good chance that some of the generator electronics, possibly including the speed and voltage regulators was damaged.

    However, there could also be a totally unrelated problem with the engine rather than the generator, such as carburetor fouling by stale fuel.
    If you can completely disconnect the generator windings from the controls you might be able to narrow it down more.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #6
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    inetdog wrote: »
    However, there could also be a totally unrelated problem with the engine rather than the generator, such as carburetor fouling by stale fuel.
    If you can completely disconnect the generator windings from the controls you might be able to narrow it down more.

    I thought this my self, but it does start and run just fine for about 5-10 sec.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #7
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    inetdog wrote: »
    I cannot give you any guarantees one what or the other, but if the generator was not running at the time the inverter was turned on and popped the breaker, there is a pretty good chance that some of the generator electronics, possibly including the speed and voltage regulators was damaged.

    Being that it runs ok for a bit.....maybe just the voltage regulator......he's bring it out to my place this week end, so to test for this I would just put my muiti meter probes in the plug and start the geny to see if it produces any power for that few seconds?
    · Share on Twitter
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #8
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?

    Generally with a RV generator the generator end is separate from the Engine electrically. The engine start sequence disables the temperature and Oil pressure sensor, if there is a issue with either the engine will start and run a few seconds once they are back in the ignition system of the engine and it will stop. Some also have a over speed ( over voltage ) control in the AVR generator end for the governor. Some have fuses and some not that would cause it to stop.
    · Share on Twitter
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?

    first I thought of water in the fuel, but then you said it runs till the start button is released. If that is the case start with checking all the wire to from the start button. If it stays running for a short time look to a fuel delivery problem, stuck float, fuel pump leak, sucking air, bad fuel etc...

    hth
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
    · Share on Twitter
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #10
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?

    A few people here have had good luck with "Sea Foam" fuel preservative/de-gumming fluid. I agree, I would start with cleaning the carburetor/fuel system, then look at oil pressure/temperature/any over voltage shutdown (disconnect to see if engine will start/run).

    http://seafoamsales.com/

    Did it run after the "mains" incident?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
    · Share on Twitter
  • Rybren
    Rybren Solar Expert Posts: 351 ✭✭
    #11
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    Chris wrote: »
    You still have yours up and running?


    Hey Chris,

    The tank is plodding along on autopilot these days. My wife was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lung Cancer a couple of months ago, so as you can imagine, our life and routine has been turned upside down. Looking at the fish and glancing at the forums is my R&R these days.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    Some also have a over speed ( over voltage ) control in the AVR generator end for the governor. Some have fuses and some not that would cause it to stop.

    I'll see if it has any fuse's and such in on that side of the unit.....unfortunately it isn't on a roll out tray so it makes a major pain in the arse to work on LOL

    Thanx for the input
    · Share on Twitter
  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #13
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    westbranch wrote: »
    first I thought of water in the fuel, but then you said it runs till the start button is released. If that is the case start with checking all the wire to from the start button. If it stays running for a short time look to a fuel delivery problem, stuck float, fuel pump leak, sucking air, bad fuel etc...

    hth

    This was my gut feeling as well.....so *knock on wood* hope that's all it is, would be nice to have a cheap easy fix for once
    · Share on Twitter
  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #14
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    BB. wrote: »
    Did it run after the "mains" incident?

    -Bill

    Honestly......I never tried it after, at the time I assumed the only thing he could have damaged was the inverter....so after re-wireing the output and testing I thought he just got lucky.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #15
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    Rybren wrote: »
    My wife was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lung Cancer a couple of months ago, so as you can imagine, our life and routine has been turned upside down. Looking at the fish and glancing at the forums is my R&R these days.

    wow, that's terrible news Jerry, how is she doing?
    I suppose that means you guys haven't been able to get out and enjoy your cabin at all this spring?
    · Share on Twitter
  • Rybren
    Rybren Solar Expert Posts: 351 ✭✭
    #16
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?

    Emotionally, she's up and down - the odds are very much stacked against her. Physically, she's great. She has no symptoms and you'd never know that she's in such rough shape.

    We've been making quite a few day trips up to the camp, but haven't spent the night yet. The bugs are still really thick and have been eating us alive. We're trying to live life as normally as the chemo and hospital visits will permit.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #17
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    Rybren wrote: »
    Emotionally, she's up and down - the odds are very much stacked against her. Physically, she's great. She has no symptoms and you'd never know that she's in such rough shape.

    We've been making quite a few day trips up to the camp, but haven't spent the night yet. The bugs are still really thick and have been eating us alive. We're trying to live life as normally as the chemo and hospital visits will permit.


    Glad to hear she still feels well, at least you guys are still able to get out and enjoy what free time you do have between all the hospital chaos.

    Wish her well from Mel and I.

    Have you had enough time out at the cabin to get your new WBjr all rigged up?
    · Share on Twitter
  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #18
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    Generally with a RV generator the generator end is separate from the Engine electrically. The engine start sequence disables the temperature and Oil pressure sensor, if there is a issue with either the engine will start and run a few seconds once they are back in the ignition system of the engine and it will stop. Some also have a over speed ( over voltage ) control in the AVR generator end for the governor. Some have fuses and some not that would cause it to stop.

    So to test the sensors.....could I just unplug them one at a time and jumper the connection?
    · Share on Twitter
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    #19
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    Chris wrote: »
    So to test the sensors.....could I just unplug them one at a time and jumper the connection?
    That is correct, they form a loop in the ignition that will open and kill the engine since they are normally closed. Yours will probably have 2 ( oil and temp ), some have as many as 5, depending on the generator and if it's water cooled and has a catalytic converter.

    You should be able to at least find a parts manual on-line that would at least give you a hint, maybe a service manual.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Chris
    Chris Solar Expert Posts: 135 ✭✭
    #20
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    Blackcherry04 wrote: »
    That is correct, they form a loop in the ignition that will open and kill the engine since they are normally closed. Yours will probably have 2 ( oil and temp ), some have as many as 5, depending on the generator and if it's water cooled and has a catalytic converter.

    You should be able to at least find a parts manual on-line that would at least give you a hint, maybe a service manual.

    Perfect! thanks man..I appreciate the info, he has the manual and I think a parts break down of the unit as well.
    · Share on Twitter
  • Rybren
    Rybren Solar Expert Posts: 351 ✭✭
    #21
    Re: Gen Set Fed Power In Reverse.....Toast?
    Chris wrote: »
    Wish her well from Mel and I.

    Will do!
    Chris wrote: »

    Have you had enough time out at the cabin to get your new WBjr all rigged up?

    Unfortunately, no. My Windoze laptop died, as did my son's. I have a really old laptop that I recently put Linux on, but I'm not comfortable enough to try the firmware update using it. Guess I'm just a chicken at heart and don't want some other issue to bother me right now. My camp is without communications to the outside world so if the update were to fail, I'd be up the creek.
    · Share on Twitter

Categories