Little help with my system please

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chrisinflorida
chrisinflorida Registered Users Posts: 1
A little help would be great if you can. I will try to be as short as possible.

I have made a series of purchases and am under the impression that I have all of the components of a complete solar system but I need to make sure that I do and that my design is ok.
I am trying install a small test system in which I hope to expand on if I can get it to work.

The picture is the best I could do for a layout of all the components and the design that I have made up so far.

this is a 1,000W solar set up composed of 4 panels with the following specs.
each panel is rated as follows:
Pmax:250W
Voc:37.35V
Vmpp:29.98V
Impp:8.34A

The solar panels will be connected in a parallel circuit NOT series so the voltage does not increase past the inverter specs.

The Grid Tie Inverter is as follows *It is one of those plug and play inverters.
1,000W
50Hz/60Hz
Vmp:26-30V
Input: DC 20-40V
MPPT range Dc:24-33V
Output: AC 110 (90-140V)

I currently have a 200Amp Cutter-Hammer circuit breaker which I refer to as (main circuit breaker)
the main breaker is connected to the rest of the house. I wanted to have a separate breaker that is more centrally located to where the solar panels will be mounted so I went out and purchase a 2nd circuit breaker made by HomeLine and is 100Amps.

I have 3 wires to connect the Main circuit breaker (Cutter-Hammer 200Amp) to the 2nd circuit breaker (HomeLine 100Amp)
- (2) 4 gauge wire rated for 115 amps for the hots
-(1) 6 gauge wire rated 85 amps for the ground bar of the 2nd panel.


Please refer to the attached image.
FIRST QUESTION
- will this wire connection work correctly for connecting up the circuit breakers? Since I have only 3 wires I assume that I am going to be running on 110V instead of the 240V that I was expecting. Please see all other questions before answering this one as I believe my entire system has to be ran off of the 110V.


ok, so the 2nd circuit panel is located where I want to build a solar electric station where I will have my grid tie inverter, disconnect box and kilawatt meter.


so now my next questions relate to my design to the "solar electric station"

The biggest problem I am struggling with is that I am unsure of what amps are coming out of the grid tie inverter. at first I was thinking it was 50-60Amps but now I am under the impression that it is 10-20A ... I think it is 15A.

-What outlet will I need with this grid tie inverter?


The second problem I am struggling with is the actual circuit breaker in the 2nd circuit breaker panel (HomeLine 100Amp). at first I was under the impression that I needed a 50-60A circuit but now I am thinking it is a 15A circuit that is needed. I know this most likely revolves around the specs of the Inverter and the plug and play outlet I wish to install but it is not stated.

-what Amp circuit will I need for this 2nd panel to power the outlet?


I spent a lot of time on the attached image.


Thank you in advance.

Attachment not found.

Comments

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
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    Re: Little help with my system please

    Welcome to the forum Chris.

    *sigh* I guess I have to be the 'bad guy' and say stop what you are doing right now because it is illegal and dangerous and you don't understand what you're getting in to.

    It is a paradox that those plug-in inverters are legal for sale but not to install. In order to have a legal grid-tie system the whole thing has to be planned, inspected, and approved. Both the utility and the local AHJ must be involved. If they aren't you can have problems all the way up to and including your house burning down and the insurance company not having to pony up a dime because of the illegal installation. It doesn't even matter if it is at fault.

    There are lots of posts here explaining the thing in detail. For example:
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?19660-Ensupra-Solar-Is-this-illegal
    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?11000-Power-Jack-grid-tie-inverters

    Please do not go ahead with this plan.

    If you want to experiment with solar without doing a proper (and admittedly expensive) grid-tie system you can use 1kW of panels to power quite a sizable off-grid (battery-based) system that does not have legal or safety issues.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
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    Re: Little help with my system please

    To answer the GT inverter question:

    1000 watts / 110 Volts = 9.1 amps nominal maximum

    9.1 amps * 1.25 NEC breaker/wiring derating = 11.4 amps minimum

    So, the branch circuit for this inverter should be 15 or 20 amps (typically 14 awg or 12 awg wire minimum, respectively).

    A 200 amp main panel with a 200 amp main breaker is "legal" to support 20% of its rating as solar GT power input--Or 40 amps @ 240 VAC maximum--A 40 amp double pole breaker would be the maximum allowed to be wired to your sub-panel. The 40 amp breaker should be installed at the "bottom" of the main panel (opposite end of the AC bus bars from the 200 amp input breaker).

    The sub panel you are wiring in is usually only allowed to be used for connecting GT inverters into. Your system would be allowed 4x 20 amps single pole breakers.

    You will also be following electric code regarding the wiring/installation of the solar array? If you have lightning in your area, you don't want a strike hitting the panels and bringing the energy into your home (bedroom/office/etc.). Most installations require metal conduit from the roof to the first disconnect/protective breaker panel before you can go to Romex (or similar) interior style cabling.

    As Marc said, in most locations, installing this system without permits/utility approval/licensed electrician is illegal. And can be very dangerous. Pretty much all of the small GT plug and play inverters sold in the US are not UL/NRTL Listed and illegal to connect. They also tend to have a nasty habit of overheating and early failures (not very reliable).

    Also, you need to find out what kind of power meter you have for your home. The range from:

    Old mechanical meter, will turn backwards when you generate excess power (more or less, Net Metering without utility knowing).
    Mechanical meter with one way clutch... Any excess power does not turn meter backwards (you give extra power to utility for free).
    Digital meter that turns forwards/backwards (net meter).
    Digital meter that turns forwards only (the utility charges you for putting excess power on grid).
    Digital meter that reports unusual power conditions to utility (excess power generated, unusual power details).

    If your utility bill drops, the utility may send somebody out to figure out if you are illegally connecting a GT solar power system (look for panels on roof, look for meter turning backwards during day).

    If you generate more power than you use (I did this with my GT system install--Turned on after approval, but utility took ~1 month to install new meter/change billing plan)--Utility computer may guess that meter reader read the meter wrong, and "play" with the numbers until they "make sense". In my case, I went from what should have been a $40 summer credit to a ~$187 bill after the computer "gamed" the meter numbers.

    Grid Tied Inverters do work well and there is not really much reason to experiment on a Utility connected home. You might be able to bury a 250 watt installation and not have the utility notice. You might even be able to bury a 1,000 watt installation if you use a fair amount of power (HVAC, electric stove/hot water/etc.).

    But with full professional/permitted installs getting down to the $3-$5 per Watt (~$3-$5,000 for your system capacity--But probably realistically based on a 5-10kWatt system, small systems will have minimum charges/permitting/engineering fees that would probably make a small system more expensive to install). Plus (at least for the near future) a 30% federal tax credit.

    You could be very surprised if you install your system at what happens down the road. You may very well be lucky and nothing happens. But there is a risk.

    Lastly--Even off grid power systems still need to be properly designed. Battery banks and DC systems have a tremendous amount of stored energy and have other safety issues. Even they should be treated with respect when designing/installing.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
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    Re: Little help with my system please
    BB. wrote: »
    Also, you need to find out what kind of power meter you have for your home. The range from:

    Old mechanical meter, will turn backwards when you generate excess power (more or less, Net Metering without utility knowing).
    Mechanical meter with one way clutch... Any excess power does not turn meter backwards (you give extra power to utility for free).
    Digital meter that turns forwards/backwards (net meter).
    Digital meter that turns forwards only (the utility charges you for putting excess power on grid).
    Digital meter that reports unusual power conditions to utility (excess power generated, unusual power details).
    You missed one Bill. There are a lot of "theft proof" mechanical meters out there with a two-way overriding clutch that will turn the dials forward regardless of the direction the disk is spinning.
    POCO will then bill you for the excess you are sending them. The design goal was to have the meter always add up usage even if it was turned upside down in the socket every other week or so.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.