Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.

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arcandspark
arcandspark Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭✭✭
in Advanced Solar Electric Technical Forum #1
There is a Battery Store in the Dallas - Garland area Mr. Battery that is selling used GNB liquid acid PDQ23 batteries at an unbelievable price of only $60.00 each. They usually sell for hundreds of dollars each. They will be for sale on Ebay right now according to the person I talked to. He said they have a large number of them avalible. Not sure about the (Amp Hour) rating but at over 240 pounds each they should be 800 to 1000 amp hours each as an off the hip guess. They are liquid acid batteries. Personally at this price I would like to purchase about 13 of them for a system I am installing off grid in Fairfeild, Texas. Can anyone tell me if they have had experiance with these batteries, I have installed GNB's for Telecom Central Offices that have worked for up to fifteen even twenty years trouble free with regular maintance. I do not know much about the PDQ23's. Thanks, Arcandspark
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #2
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    Re: Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.

    This is the manufacturer's web page for the battery...

    http://industrialenergy.exide.com/products/range_select.asp?range=PDQ&sub_id=38&lng=en&main_description_en=Flooded&cl=Technologies&conv=mm

    If the above link does not work, you can navigate to there through:

    http://www.exideworld.com/

    Not a lot of information on charging/discharging... But rated at 5-60 minutes of drain. Pretty high rate batteries (for this model).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.

    that sounds like a great deal as each battery is 1867.5ah. you need 3 for 12v and 6 for 24v, but at that price go for it. that's a good warranty too.
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  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.

    Niel and I have corresponded on his derived battery capacity spec. I think the specs provided by Exide/GNB require some translation.

    The PDQ-23 is a 4 V battery (two 2 V cells) rated at 1,485 Wpc (Watts per cell) at 25 C (77 F) in the 1.250 SG model using the 60 minute discharge period down to 1.75 Vpc (Volts per cell).

    This to me says that it’s a 1,485 Wpc x 2 cells X 1 hour / 4 V = 742.5 Ah battery. However, the one hour discharge period is rather severe, so, extrapolating from GNB’s Absolyte IIP specs, the 20 hour capacity is probably ~1,600 Ah.

    As previously noted, you’d need six of these in series to create a 24 V battery bank, and 12 in series to make a 48 V bank. Assuming they’re in good shape, they’re probably a steal at $60 apiece.

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #5
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    Re: Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.

    One other point to research--many decades ago, I thought I heard that Lead Calcium batteries (phone company batteries) would last even up to 40 years with many thousands of cycles--however, you could only discharge them to something like 75% level before it would affect their long term life....

    I was looking around the Exide website, and did not find anything on discharging/charging cycles/algorithms. Did you guys find anything?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • arcandspark
    arcandspark Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.

    BB you are right about some of them lasting 40 years. I was working on the Joliet Ill. Cental Office and in the battery room. About 50 two volt batteries each as large as a 55 gallon drum. We took lots of precautions covering all buss bars with rubber mats to avoid the China syndrome should someone drop a wrench while working. They said the batteries were almost 38 years old and that was back in 1993. I think that for the money the choice between used Trojan L16's and the GNB's all for the same price, I am going to try the GNB's. The people I am putting the system together for are on a shoe string budget and can not afford new batteries for a while. All I need is 24 volts these are 2 volts per cell not 4 volts, so 13 batteries will work with one extra just to keep the voltage around 25 to 26 volts. At that price it is worth the gamble.   Arcandspark
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,447 admin
    #7
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    Re: Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.

    I would check to see if there is a place nearby where you can recycle the batteries before buying them (years ago, recyclers would buy the batteries for recycling--don't know the policies now--but with CA and their hidden taxes and service/use/disposal charges, there could be surprises)...

    Don't want to get caught with a couple tons of lead and acid and no place to take it for safe, and reasonably priced, disposal.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.
    All I need is 24 volts these are 2 volts per cell not 4 volts, so 13 batteries will work with one extra just to keep the voltage around 25 to 26 volts.

    Interesting. GNB's documentation clearly shows the PDQ-23 batteries to be 4 V (2 Vpc, 2 cells). MAybe the ones you found are some "old" single cell models?  :?

    These appear to be somewhat unsual batteries. They're clearly designed for very deep cycles (specs for discharges down to 1.60 Vpc are provided -- the equivalent of 9.6 V for a 12 V battery) at high power (specs provided for discharge periods ranging from 5 minutes to 60 minutes).

    But, I'm unable to find standard 20 hr deep-cycle discharge specs (the estimate above is derived), and Peukert's Law doesn't work very well under extreme conditions. Finally, while these batteries are designed for long float life, I wasn't able to find any specs on number of cycles.

    They almost sound like big SLI (starting/lighting/ignition) batteries. From the PDQ brochure:
    High Rate
    GNB manufactures batteries for applications requiring a
    large amount of power for relatively short periods of time
    (e.g. a computer room UPS system). GNB’s high rate
    batteries are available with nominal ratings of 1845 to 4370
    watts per cell.
    The grids and separators in the high rate batteries are
    design-optimized to allow current to flow out of the battery
    as quickly as possible. Solid copper terminal posts
    also improve high rate performance while increasing
    connection integrity.

    HTH,
    Jim / crewzer
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #9
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    Re: Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.

    40 years! shaking head.. what the world needs now (besides love, you know i was gonna sing that) is some better battery technology
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.

    matt,
    i've heard of stories that some batteries from the telephone company from the 20s and 30s are still going. what happened is they made them right back then and to cut corners they cheapened things to the point of it costing the lifespan of the batteries to make them more profitable to the companies that make them. a battery lasting 40 years doesn't get replaced often enough to make the money that one every 10 years will. it's the same principles being applied to american cars so that you have to buy one soon.
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  • arcandspark
    arcandspark Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Deal or Dud on GNB batteries.

    The phone number to Mr. Battery in Garland Texas if anyone is interested in these for their alternative project is 214 321 2134 ... They say that they have many of them in stock. I do not know all the details but for $60.00 its hard to pass up, and you can go look at them, the cases of the batteries are clear so you can inspect the plates visually. Just passing it on to others that might be on a shoestring budget like myself. Arcandspark
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