Can someone direct me to what I need, newbie

System · July 2006

Hi to all on the forum.
I am going to set up some solar. I would like to have enough solar to pump mater from my 220AC well in times of emergency.
I think this is a must to have (water) My well pulls 16 amps on start up, goes down to 8 amps after initial start. I was told that I need at least a 3500 watt inverter. Ive looked at inverters, if I had to choose I see some 4000 models by xantrex. I don't know how many panels or batteries to get.
This is what Id like to do. I would like to install a second electric water heater and use the system to heat water and run a very few lights or hook electric to my computer room plus heat the water until the time comes when I need that solar system to pump water.
I had a solar (small) solar system in the past and had a small charge controller to handle it. I remember that I could dump power into something other than the batteries when the batteries were fully charged. Id like to do that here if possible and run power into the water heater after batteries are full thus leaving the batteries for emergency. Is this possible.
I have window shopped and thought of getting 4 130 watt panels, the outback or xantres 4000 inverter and I don't know how many batteries and the x-250 transformer for powerering the 220 well and water heater. I would disconnect the water heater when I want to use the system to pump water. My question is a big one.
What all hardware do I need to do this? Do I need a inverter and charge controller? how many panels and how many batteries?
Any suggestions would be helpfull. I don't have allot of big trees where I live and just over the crest of a big hill with a good breeze. But have heard pv's are better than wind generators. Thanks, Mark in Michigan.

System2 · July 2006

Re: Can someone direct me to what I need, newbie

I do supply my cabin with water from a 1/2 hp 120volt (to avoid the transformer) deep well pump, from solar, using a 1500 watt inverter. It works GREAT! The pump I have is of the 3 wire + ground type, having a separate control (starter) box. I found that occasionally, at startup, the inverter would kick out on fault and it took a while to figure out why. Inside the control box is the "start capacitor" and the problem was, that after the starter did it's job, the capacitor would sometimes hold a full charge, which at times would result in a spike surge when the pump tried to start, kicking out the inverter. Cure was simple. A 100K 1 watt resistor, connected across the capacitor terminals, which bled down the charge in the capacitor between starts. Problem solved.
I have 660 watts PV installed, over 1000 AH batteries, a bunch of loads and lots of power for what I use. The pump was only recently put on the system, I don't waste water, or anything else, and the added load of the pump is practically insignificant. I'm VERY pleased with it.
You WILL need a controller for the PV's. Have you considered a solar water heater instead of going electric hot water? Far more efficient and if you have the sun, could provide LOTS of "free" hot water. Again, I don't waste anything, so don't take 40 minutes having a shower and haven't used hot water for the washing machine for decades. Clothes last much longer and the neighbours say I hardly smell at all.

Good luck
Wayne

System2 · July 2006

Re: Can someone direct me to what I need, newbie

Thanks for the reply. The hot water is just a place to use up the energy until I need the system to pump water. Any suggestion on what is the best batteries or inverter or if I need a charge controller and a inverter or will a good inverter dump the excess power in the electric hot water heater after batteries are full? Thanks, Mark

System2 · July 2006

Re: Can someone direct me to what I need, newbie

mlm wrote:

Thanks for the reply. The hot water is just a place to use up the energy until I need the system to pump water. Any suggestion on what is the best batteries or inverter or if I need a charge controller and a inverter or will a good inverter dump the excess power in the electric hot water heater after batteries are full? Thanks, Mark

I'll leave most of this to "the resident experts", however, if I understand your post, you are asking if an inverter will control your PV's and keep the batteries charged, while at the same time, preventing overcharge, by dumping excess into your hot water heater. If so, the answer is NO. The ONLY thing an inverter does, is take your low voltage DC and convert it to higher voltage AC.(120, or 240)
A separate device, the Controller, looks after the panels and batteries.
The proper Controller can tell the inverter when and for how long, it should dump energy into the water heater.
You need to get acquainted with a good knowledgeable source for both hardware and installation.
The results that you want can be achieved, but there's a lot more to it than you think.
Good luck.
Wayne

System2 · August 2006

Re: Can someone direct me to what I need, newbie

Thanks for the help. Ive talked with a solar company and ordered these items, 4 130 watt pc, 4000 watt inverter, 60 amp charge controller and a x-250 transformer. I will install a second electric water heater and preheat the water going into my present water heater . And then if power goes out Ill have the power to have water when needed. thanks

System2 · August 2006

Re: Can someone direct me to what I need, newbie

mlm wrote:

And then if power goes out Ill have the power to have water when needed. thanks

Not quite sure of your meaning here - do you intend to heat your hot water from the batteries when the power is off? Or to keep a tank full of hot water, heated with the left over power from the PV's, for use only when the power goes off?
Wayne

System2 · August 2006

Re: Can someone direct me to what I need, newbie

Hi again, Ive been busy and just got time to get back to the forum. My intent is to have a solar system im place to pump water from my well in case grid goes down, and to use the system to heat water when the grid is up. Ive got most of the parts delivered so far just waiting on the inverters. Im going to search the forum to see if my needs are addressed here to get more up on the how to of it all. thanks

System2 · August 2006

Re: Can someone direct me to what I need, newbie

Well I have another question. Seems I may need yet more equipment. I see that there are 3 ways to use the charge controller. What I want to end up with is a second hot water heater that I can use to dump the water in before it goes into my grid water heater. I see that I can use the charge controller as a diversion controller, charge controller or a load controller. If I use the charge controller (xantrex c-60) as a charge controller and use the inverter (xantrex sw plus 4024) to heat the water and be ready to pump water if grid goes down (here is where its confusing to me) should I get another charge controller or a Auxiliary Load Module to sense the batteries condition and to dump the excess power into the hot water heater. As I want to protect the batteries from overcharge and discharge either with charge controller or inverter. With these items having so many options I really don't know which way to use them. I just want to have the power to pump water if needed and to use the excess power to do something usefull like heating domestic water until I need to use it to pump water. So do I need to get a Auxiliary load module to turn on the ac to the hot watter heater or another charge controller using one to charge the batteries and one as a diversion controller. Any suggestions? thanks

Can someone direct me to what I need, newbie

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