GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plummets?

rollandelliott
rollandelliott Solar Expert Posts: 834 ✭✭
I really want an electric car, but financially it just doesn't make sense to me yet. Sure you can save $1600 in gas in a year, but even with GM's new $5000 price drop it will take several years for you to break even compared to a similar priced car that is $20K vs 28K selling price (28K with all the tax incentives).

And then their is resale value issues! GM states that they are making a new car that will have a 200 mile range and cost $30,000.

These darn cars are like computers, who's gonna want to buy a used EV when the latest one a few years latter is cheaper and has better tech?

I'm going to wait it out, I think everyone that is buying an electric car now is a guinnea pig for the rest of us:confused:

Comments

  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm

    Early adopters of new technology always pay more and are the guinnea pig. Who would think Toyota would give rebates on the priues? I thought about getting a Volt also but decided on a gasoline powered Subaru Legacy awd which might be a little roomier and comfortable. I could just about buy 2 of them for the price of a Volt and it gets about 30 MPG for me in hilly country driving. Also looked at Chevy malible but for me it was hard to get in and out of car. Felt comfortable after I was in. There are plenty of larger midsize cars that are in the 30 mpg range. If you do need and want a new car you either pop for the volt or buy a gasoline powered car that will have a good trade in value when the electric car meets your price and expectations. If you think you want a volt in a few years I would advise to get a GM creditcard if you use them. I bought a new chevy hhr in 2011 and got $2850.00 rebate from my GM card plus a $3500.00 rebate that GM had at the time. You get 5% of your purchases put into an account that you can use towards the purchase price on a GM vehickle plus any other rebates they are giving at the time. You can let it build up for 7 years before they expire. Now that I have a Subaru they have a similar credit card but they only pay you 3% but you can use the credit for parts and asserys and shop work. So for me I pay for everything on the Subaru card, grocerys, gas, utilitys,resturant bills insurances and every bill that accepts credit cards. Since april I have $200.00 worth of credit towards the next new Subaru. :Dsolarvic:D
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm

    Well we have 2 Volts and love them. We buy so little gasoline that we have trouble remembering the times we went to the gas station. I know for sure the wife only goes about once a year for about 4-5 gallons and we use mine for the longer trips. Really the Volts are the best of both worlds, electric mostly but gas when you needed it. The price drop of $5000 was already baked into the 2013s as GM was rebating the $5000 on them. Yes early adopters are guinea pigs of a sort, and many paid MSRP for the original Volts when the supply was very limited. Really the money smart guys were the ones that leased for 3 years, those cars are now coming off the original 2011 leases and the residuals are way too high to purchase at lease end. Simple, just to give them back to the lessor and let them take the bite. We bought ours outright pretty much with the intent of driving them long term. With the solar is is like driving for free. If you come from a 25 MPG car and drive 15,000 miles per year the gas savings are about $2400 annually, figure that over 5 years that is $12,000 if gas stays around $4.00 a gallon. (15000/25*$4.00) X 5 = $12,000. I got rid of a 15 MPG car so my savings are even larger. Our annual electric bill is under $500 for everything, AC, Pool and car charging being the largest consumers (it is mostly night time AC consumption which our TOU doesn't cover at all). According to the TED, together both the cars run anywhere from $20 to $45 a month to charge combined on-peak and off-peak (on average about $33), we just charge immediate (lots of Solar on peak draws) but with APS TOU plans and delayed night time ($0.055 kWh) charging a 13.5 kWh charge for the ~10 kWH battery would run about $0.75 for a 40+ mile range even with no solar. Even the best ICE cars would cost about $4.00 to make that 40 miles.

    Currently the wife is at 447 mpg and I am at 332 mpg.
    http://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/63
    http://www.voltstats.net/Stats/Details/323

    The 200 mile range car for $30K is speculation somewhat. While they can do a 200 mile range today it still costs to much for the batteries. They need some more break through on the production prices, but GM has invested greatly into to its battery lab, recently tripling the size. They have the resources to make it happen I would speculate. The big question is can they beat Elon Musk & Tesla to the market with a killer car.

    Really for us a pure BEV with a 75 mile range would work for the wife but not for our only car. If you wanted to run to Vegas, San Diego, LA or even the Grand Canyon(round trip), even a 200 mile range would require a fast charge along the way and the infrastructure for that doesn't really exist. The Volt EREV is the right technology for today, who knows about the future.

    One never buys a car for ROI, they get them for lots of other reasons like styling, latest technology, the environmental impact or ... If they did then BMW, Mercedes, Porsche and Cadillac would have been out of business long ago and Elon Musk would have never been able to make a go with Tesla. Don't expect to break even, did you break even on your existing car?

    Edit:

    BTW the fixed fuel cost (near Zero with the solar) of the Volt are great if your going into retirement. :D:D:D
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm

    The hospital I was at Tuesday had two dedicated electric vehicle parking spots. Neither was occupied. Nearly every other spot was (took me quite a while to park). Technology gets adopted slowly. As the price comes down due to return on R&D the adoption speeds up.

    In some cases the electric & hybrid vehicles won't do. But I can't help thinking there's quite a few people out there who could really benefit from having spent the $$$ on a Chevy Volt for their daily 1/2 hour commute rather than a Hummer. :roll:
  • ggunn
    ggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm
    I really want an electric car, but financially it just doesn't make sense to me yet. Sure you can save $1600 in gas in a year, but even with GM's new $5000 price drop it will take several years for you to break even compared to a similar priced car that is $20K vs 28K selling price (28K with all the tax incentives).
    If you compare it to the cost of a used conventional car you will never break even. The reasons for buying an electric car need to go beyond pure economics.
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm

    Solar Dave. Just want you to know I am not Volt bashing. Someone has to be the early adopter or technology wouldn,t improve. With the truth known
    I couldn,t afford the price of a Volt or I might have had one by now. I have never seen one on the roads in my area. Don,t know if it is because of the cold climate or the purchase price. There sure are plenty of prious,s. The dealer where I bought my chevy hhr told me they sold one volt to someone that didn,t like the ride of their prius and the second one they sold set on their lot all summer. We get a lot of snow where I live, so decided at my age I wanted an all wheel drive car, reason for buying a Subaru. AWD legasy. I could afford it.
    kind of wander if they eventually might have an AWD electric car that would be affordable? My chevy salesman ask me why I didn,t buy a new equinox awd. I told him that I didn,t want a stationwagon looking car. He told me that chevy was working on a Malibu awd. Maybe could have went for that. I bought my Subaru legacy because it is a car and is built in the USA. ; solarvic
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm
    solarvic wrote: »
    Solar Dave. Just want you to know I am not Volt bashing. Someone has to be the early adopter or technology wouldn,t improve. With the truth known
    I couldn,t afford the price of a Volt or I might have had one by now. I have never seen one on the roads in my area. Don,t know if it is because of the cold climate or the purchase price. There sure are plenty of prious,s. The dealer where I bought my chevy hhr told me they sold one volt to someone that didn,t like the ride of their prius and the second one they sold set on their lot all summer. We get a lot of snow where I live, so decided at my age I wanted an all wheel drive car, reason for buying a Subaru. AWD legasy. I could afford it.
    kind of wander if they eventually might have an AWD electric car that would be affordable? My chevy salesman ask me why I didn,t buy a new equinox awd. I told him that I didn,t want a stationwagon looking car. He told me that chevy was working on a Malibu awd. Maybe could have went for that. I bought my Subaru legacy because it is a car and is built in the USA. ; solarvic

    I understand completely. One needs to be in a tax position to get the $7500 tax credit first of all, meaning you need a $7500 tax liability. With that alone it brings the base model price into the high 20's with no other wheeling and dealing. We bought ours while I was still working to we did take that advantage. Not sure what you paid for your Subaru but equipped like a Volt I bet it was in the low 20's.
  • NorthGuy
    NorthGuy Solar Expert Posts: 1,913 ✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm

    Even though I have plenty of "free" electricity in the summer and could easily get 50kWh to charge the folt for 200 miles couple times a week (200 miles is what I need to drive to the city and back), and at the same time gasoline prices are high, it's still way cheaper to use a regular car.
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm
    NorthGuy wrote: »
    Even though I have plenty of "free" electricity in the summer and could easily get 50kWh to charge the folt for 200 miles couple times a week (200 miles is what I need to drive to the city and back), and at the same time gasoline prices are high, it's still way cheaper to use a regular car.

    Agreed, it is not for the 200 mile run, it is for the 40-50 mile round trip commute. The nice part you can still do an occasional 200 mile run with no issue.
  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm
    The hospital I was at Tuesday had two dedicated electric vehicle parking spots. Neither was occupied. Nearly every other spot was (took me quite a while to park).

    Wow. I compare that to our company where the available EV charging spots are fought over bitterly. I see half a dozen emails a day saying "please plug me in when you are done!" "Who has the red Leaf that's been there all day?"
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm
    Wow. I compare that to our company where the available EV charging spots are fought over bitterly. I see half a dozen emails a day saying "please plug me in when you are done!" "Who has the red Leaf that's been there all day?"

    Location is everything! A charger at a Walgreen drug store is just stupidness.
  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm
    solar_dave wrote: »
    Location is everything! A charger at a Walgreen drug store is just stupidness.

    Agreed that location is important. In San Diego, Walgreens with chargers are actually sought after.
  • jeffkruse
    jeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm

    Don't forget to look at the Ford CMAX Energi. With about $4K tax rebate its around $30K. It has around a 20 mile range on electric then 40MPG on gas. It's bigger and peppyier than the Prius plugin.
  • bill von novak
    bill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 891 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm
    jeffkruse wrote: »
    Don't forget to look at the Ford CMAX Energi. With about $4K tax rebate its around $30K. It has around a 20 mile range on electric then 40MPG on gas. It's bigger and peppyier than the Prius plugin.

    We looked at the C-Max Energi as well and were surprised to find that it was smaller inside than the Prius. The battery takes up most of the available cargo space.
  • jeffkruse
    jeffkruse Solar Expert Posts: 205 ✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm

    I really want to get the Energi but you are right. The battery does take up a lot of room. I think I am going to stick with the plain C-Max because of that. I just wish they could have squeezed a bigger battery in somewhere else. To me I think the C-Max has more usable room than the Prius V.
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm

    When I read about the new Volt price a week or so ago, I re-ran the numbers for my commute (66 miles round trip) and the Prius still came out ahead. The 37 mpg when the Volt is running from the generator is the killer, along with no guarantee you'll get 40 miles from the battery charge.

    I'm no Volt basher, either. I've followed its development from the day it was announced.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm
    techntrek wrote: »
    When I read about the new Volt price a week or so ago, I re-ran the numbers for my commute (66 miles round trip) and the Prius still came out ahead. The 37 mpg when the Volt is running from the generator is the killer, along with no guarantee you'll get 40 miles from the battery charge.

    I'm no Volt basher, either. I've followed its development from the day it was announced.


    They work out great if you can get a charge at work on a commute like that. A lot depends on the cost of fuel as well. Personally I tried a Prius and I would not buy one of those tin cans. You should test drive a Volt. We always get 40 miles plus, but in cold eastern weather you can expect that to drop in winter.
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm

    Solar Dave , I took a Thank You America, Tour at the cruze plant in lordstown ohio. The guide there told us that a lot of the VOLT body parts are made there. Kind of made me wonder which ones and if some of the mechanical parts are shared. The cruze has a good reputation and they sell a ton of them. I know a lot of people that have them. I think all the GM plants had the Thank You America Tours at the same days in August 2011. Where is the Volt assembled? solarvic
  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm
    solarvic wrote: »
    Solar Dave , I took a Thank You America, Tour at the cruze plant in lordstown ohio. The guide there told us that a lot of the VOLT body parts are made there. Kind of made me wonder which ones and if some of the mechanical parts are shared. The cruze has a good reputation and they sell a ton of them. I know a lot of people that have them. I think all the GM plants had the Thank You America Tours at the same days in August 2011. Where is the Volt assembled? solarvic

    Yeah they share some parts, the Volt is quite a bit heavier than a Cruze so I suspect suspension and the like are somewhat different. I think the interior finishes are better on the Volt and the paint quality by judging our 2 is excellent. The Volts are assembled in the Detroit/Hamtramck, MI plant.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit/Hamtramck_Assembly
    http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/company_info/facilities/assembly/dham.html

    The assembly line there is one of the most advanced GM has, assembling many different cars on the same line.
    Cadillac ELR 2013-
    Chevrolet Volt 2010–present
    Chevrolet Impala 2013-present
    Chevrolet Malibu 2011–present
    Chevrolet Volt 2012-present
    Opel Ampera 2011–present

    They are investing quite a bit of money there. The Opel Ampera are the export Volts for Europe and they also make a Holden Volt for Australia.
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm
    solar_dave wrote: »
    They work out great if you can get a charge at work on a commute like that. A lot depends on the cost of fuel as well. Personally I tried a Prius and I would not buy one of those tin cans. You should test drive a Volt. We always get 40 miles plus, but in cold eastern weather you can expect that to drop in winter.

    You touched on both of the problems I'll encounter. No way to charge at work, and cold temps 4 months of the year.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: GM drops volt price $5000 new model has 200 mile range, old model resale value plumm

    Newspaper article in the early summer showed a pic of an 'aged' couple touring in their TESLA taking advantage of the local University campus'es ....FREE...EV charging bays... no others in town... but the Uni has an EV , a Prius.
     
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