How can I measure a 220v load?

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bebey
bebey Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭✭
in Solar Beginners Corner #1
I have a 220v well pump currently and have been researching going to a 110v but there are limited options. I have a well 190 feet deep, but I expect to hang the pump around 100 feet deep. The water table begins at 60 feet so I'm pumping against 40 feet. I also have a approx 60 gallon pressure tank, iron filter, and water softener due to very difficult water quality. It required a total 20-30 min backwash at 10gpm for the filters. When I convert the pump to off-grid, I intend to have this run only when the sun is out to decrease lost energy, but I need to know how much power the system consumes so that I can size appropriately. Is there a device similar to the kill-a-watt for 220v?

Thanks!
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?

    You need a really, really good clamp-on AC Ammeter to capture the start-up and running current. It's the most accurate way to go.

    I believe they have a 230 VAC 50Hz equivalent of the K-A-W in Europe, but I've not noticed such a thing on these shores. It wouldn't grab that in-rush current anyway.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?

    200 to 300 gallons needed for backwash? Wow, that's a lot :(
    If it's a "standard" 1/2 hp submersible, that 30 minutes run time will suck back roughly 1/2 Kwh per backwash, then a bit more to refill you're pressure tank. Regardless if it's a 110 or a 220 volt pump. Only thing is, you wouldn't need a special inverter or transformer if it was off grid and 110 volt.
    That's round figures.
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  • bebey
    bebey Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭✭
    #4
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    200 to 300 gallons needed for backwash? Wow, that's a lot :(
    If it's a "standard" 1/2 hp submersible, that 30 minutes run time will suck back roughly 1/2 Kwh per backwash, then a bit more to refill you're pressure tank. Regardless if it's a 110 or a 220 volt pump. Only thing is, you wouldn't need a special inverter or transformer if it was off grid and 110 volt.
    That's round figures.

    I still need to measure the exact time the backwash cycle runs and how much water it uses. I am probably overestimating. But the iron content is very high and the iron filter I use (uses Mag Ox media) requires frequent backwashing to work optimally. If I don't get the iron out, and because I use potassium chloride in my water softener (greenhouse friendly as opposed to sodium chloride), too much iron plugs up and ruins my water softener. ($$$).

    I'm still searching for a 3-wire 11v 1/2 hp well pump. No luck so far. I have a big coil that I've been told will successfully convert the 110v to 220v, but I don't know how to do that yet or what problems I would be creating for myself, so my first hope is to find that 110v pump.
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  • bebey
    bebey Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭✭
    #5
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    You need a really, really good clamp-on AC Ammeter to capture the start-up and running current. It's the most accurate way to go.

    I believe they have a 230 VAC 50Hz equivalent of the K-A-W in Europe, but I've not noticed such a thing on these shores. It wouldn't grab that in-rush current anyway.

    I have this Ammeter. Accurate enough? http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digital-clamp-on-ammeter/p-03482369000P
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?
    bebey wrote: »
    I have a big coil that I've been told will successfully convert the 110v to 220v, but I don't know how to do that yet or what problems I would be creating for myself.

    "A big coil"???? that will convert 110 VAC to 220 VAC????
    Can you describe this big coil?
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?
    bebey wrote: »
    I have this Ammeter. Accurate enough? http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digital-clamp-on-ammeter/p-03482369000P

    Probably not.
    It will measure the running current accurately, but it isn't going to "sample" fast enough to catch the start-up surge.
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  • bebey
    bebey Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭✭
    #8
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    "A big coil"???? that will convert 110 VAC to 220 VAC????
    Can you describe this big coil?

    It is a big coil type transformer given to me by a guy that runs a big solar installation (that sadly I cannot reach out to him easily) and he said he used it to convert his 110v to 220v for his well. It's almost a foot in diamter, 6 inches thick, and weighs around 20lbs or so. It has 4 wires coming out of it (which I am assuming someone with more knowledge than I could figure out which ones to use). He hooked a meter up to and said "hook this wire to x and this wire y etc." but sadly I cannot find that peiece of paper. :)
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  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?

    Kill-a-watt meter
    Mine survived a nearly 300v (I have a really big varrac), I accidently left my kill-a-watt meter plugged in during a test to failure on an electric leaf blower.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?
    bebey wrote: »
    It is a big coil type transformer given to me by a guy that runs a big solar installation (that sadly I cannot reach out to him easily) and he said he used it to convert his 110v to 220v for his well. It's almost a foot in diameter, 6 inches thick, and weighs around 20lbs or so. It has 4 wires coming out of it (which I am assuming someone with more knowledge than I could figure out which ones to use). He hooked a meter up to and said "hook this wire to x and this wire y etc." but sadly I cannot find that piece of paper. :)
    Very interesting. Sounds like some type of air-core transformer. Trying to wrap my head around the possibility of it being reasonably efficient with no iron core to concentrate and contain it's magnetic fields.
    Anyone else ever heard of, or seen such an animal?
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    Very interesting. Sounds like some type of air-core transformer. Trying to wrap my head around the possibility of it being reasonably efficient with no iron core to concentrate and contain it's magnetic fields.
    Anyone else ever heard of, or seen such an animal?
    Haven't seen such an animal, but us electric fencers often make an air-core choke (to block lightning) out of a few loops of insulated fence wire.
    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • Toby
    Toby Solar Expert Posts: 56 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?

    Wouldn't existing wire size be an issue if switching from a 220v to 110v pump? You would need to know the total distance in feet from the panel breaker to the pump down in the well.
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  • bebey
    bebey Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭✭
    #13
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?
    Toby wrote: »
    Wouldn't existing wire size be an issue if switching from a 220v to 110v pump? You would need to know the total distance in feet from the panel breaker to the pump down in the well.

    I would run new wire. :)
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  • bebey
    bebey Solar Expert Posts: 27 ✭✭
    #14
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?

    I was hoping to avoid the almost double price-tag for a slow-start grundos but looking like I may have to do that.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,448 admin
    #15
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    Re: How can I measure a 220v load?

    There are two different Grundfos families (at least)--The SQ and SQF... Both are soft start, but the SQF is the one that can accept variable AC and DC voltage (AC, Battery, Solar Panels). I believe the SQ is less expensive.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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