Chainging generator with a Trace Inverter

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pfisher
pfisher Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭
in General Solar Power Topics #1
I'm housesitting for my mom, and her generator (nice big honda) stopped working. I hooked up her old homelite (small) generator, and it doesn't seem to be charging anything. She has a trace inverter and an outback charge controller. One of those needs to be told that there's a different generator, I think. When a generator has a load, you can hear it bog down. This not happening. It's like there's no load. Thanks for any help.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Chainging generator with a Trace Inverter

    We will need more details about the system and why you want to run the genset, etc..
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
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    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Chainging generator with a Trace Inverter

    I will assume that the homelite works and is hooked up correctly, and that your trace inverter is an inverter/charger.... perhaps the problem is that the charger is not happy with the quality of the output of the generator. It may be the frequency or voltage that is bothering the charger.
    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #4
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    Re: Chainging generator with a Trace Inverter

    Several issues I can think of...

    Wiring/open breaker/fuse/switches (no generator power to charger input)

    120 vs 120/240 VAC wiring to charger

    Generator too far from 60 Hz

    Charge Controller's input current/power is too large for genset (what model/rating of inverter/charger; what Watts/Voltage rating of old vs backup generators).

    I would suggest getting a good sized filament lamp (150 watt flood, etc.) and connect it to the AC input on the battery charger (or inverter/charger) and see if it lights (sometimes, that will also bring the voltage frequency/regulation back into tolerance for the inverter/chargers).

    Good Luck!
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • pfisher
    pfisher Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭
    #5
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    Re: Chainging generator with a Trace Inverter

    Thanks for the reply. I think it's one of the issues you have mentioned. Right now I'm running an extension straight into the house so the oil stove can heat things up. After that, I will try plugging something with a big draw into the special outlet that goes directly to the generator. That has fixed a problem in the past, although I can't remember the details. If you have time for another question. The generator I'm using is smaller than the old one. Maybe 1200 vs 3500 watts. If the charge controller demands more juice than the small generator can provide, does that mean I change a setting on the controller to reduce the load, or that I must have a larger generator? I've seen the larger generator send about 100 amps (I think that's the unit) to the batteries, if that helps. Thanks again.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #6
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    Re: Chainging generator with a Trace Inverter

    What voltage battery bank, what brand/model of AC Charge Controller (or Inverter/Charger)?

    Some versions can be programmed to operate at lower output power levels (Outback has a "Mate" remote control panel--You would need to download the manuals/check with somebody that knows Outbacks about the programming options)...

    www.outbackpower.com

    100 amps * 14.5 volts = (guess) would be 1,450 watts.
    100 amps * 29 volts = 2,900 watts

    Sounds like a 12 volt battery bank--2.9 kW might be too much for a 3.5 kW genset (it is close--depending on losses/power factor of AC charge controller/etc.).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • pfisher
    pfisher Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭
    #7
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    Re: Chainging generator with a Trace Inverter

    It's probably at 14.5 volts. Electric things usually exaggerate their ratings. You have given me the info I really wanted, which is that with the outback, it depends. I hate the interfaces on these things. Both the charge controller and the inverter have small lcd displays, and to change a setting, it's like "up, right, right, down, down, enter". Then "Darn! I can 't find my way back to the starting point" or "Damn, I did one too many downs". Is there a way to control stuff with your computer that actually makes all this easy? Thanks.
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  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Chainging generator with a Trace Inverter

    Alright. See if this makes sense.

    If your small generator is running okay, breakers are all on, and if you have not tripped a GFCI plug on the generator output you probably need to lower the charger current (amps) and maybe decrease the loads while charging.

    Find some model numbers. My best guess would be that you have a Trace SW series.

    The most common "species" of "Trace" inverters are:
    U series- black small cube like (+/- 1cubic foot) which would sit on a flat surface with heat sinks on front and a clear panel with a few dials.
    DR series- white wall mount approx 8'' x 8" x 22" long. some dials, buttons, leds on green stripe along bottom of the front.
    SW series- large white wall mount. 9"deep x 15"high x 22.5"long. Black digital display with several buttons and leds.
    (there are a few others and even a new version of the DR called the "Trace". You'll have to look for manuals)


    - If you have the "U" or the "DR" there will be a dial saying "Battery Charger Rate" or "Max Chg Amps" something like that. Start with the dial set as low as it can go.

    - If you have the "SW" type you will need to press the "MENU HEADINGS" button until you get to the "End of User Menu". Press the red and green buttons simultaneously to access the SETUP MENU. Go to the "Battery Charging 10" menu heading and use the "MENU ITEM" buttons to go down to "Set Max Charge Amps AC". Use the "Set Points" buttons to lower the amps to 5 or less.

    Try turning on the generator again. If it works you can increase the charging amps while listening to the generator. You want it to sound like it is runing smoothly. If you turn on the generator and the inverter responds (clicks, AC in light comes on, sounds like it is taking on a load...) and then clicks and disconnects from the generator (this may be a repeating cycle) you need to reduce loads and/or further reduce the charging amps.

    If you can find the SW manual you should check it out. It is kind of a "Solar Power Systems for the Complete Idiot" guide to how these systems work.

    Alex
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