Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

I've been using an Outback charge controller for years now. This unit has metering and programming built in.

Recently my old Trace inverter died and I replaced it with an Outback FX2012T inverter. It's been working great, but I just tried to use its battery charger function and got an error code.

I didn't purchase the "Mate" metering system since I assumed I could use the metering and programming module on my charge controller, which looks like exactly the same thing. Now I need to figure out why the battery charger isn't working, but I can't figure out how to analyze it. Do I really have to buy another "Mate"? And do I need to buy a "Hub," whatever that is? Or can I just connect the two units together with an ethernet cable?

My needs are simple, I just want to diagnose the battery charger problem, and set the battery charger parameters to suit my battery bank.

Comments

  • sawmill
    sawmill Solar Expert Posts: 93 ✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    What model of the Outback CC do you have? With your new Outback inverter how did you set all the parameters without a Mate?
  • spikowski
    spikowski Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    The charge controller is a FLEXmax 60. I've adjusted many of the parameters on this unit and feel confident that I understand how it works.

    I must be using the factory defaults for my inverter, since I have no ability to adjust anything at this point.

    My system is pretty simple -- off-grid, with a small 12-volt solar array, a big bank of lead acid batteries, and a backup diesel generator (which I haven't used since before I replaced this inverter). The system powers a cottage I use on the weekends.
  • wrdaigle
    wrdaigle Solar Expert Posts: 65 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    Unfortunately, you will need to buy a mate (or at last borrow one) in order to set up the inverter's charge settings. I'm not sure what the factory defaults are, but you must be out of range on something. What are you charging with?

    If you can find a mate to borrow, you can probably set it and forget it. Now that the Mate3 is available, you may be able to find a used Mate or Mate2 for a reasonable price. Any model will work.
  • wrdaigle
    wrdaigle Solar Expert Posts: 65 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    Also, you won't need a hub. You will only be able to connect to your inverter OR your mx at one time, but this shouldn't be a problem for you -- the mx is pretty self contained.
  • spikowski
    spikowski Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    Good news I don't need a hub; bad news that I need to buy a freestanding Mate. Thanks for your help, I'll start looking around!

    My backup charger is an ancient Lister diesel coupled to a military surplus alternator. It's built like a rock but the governor is a little flaky so it can be hard to keep it at a fixed voltage and frequency. I just had it running at 125 volts and 54 hertz, which should be "in range" for the Outback inverter, so there might be another problem in my system.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    And, buy a hub if you want to connect more than one device at a time to your Mate (as I understand).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • wrdaigle
    wrdaigle Solar Expert Posts: 65 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    Here are the defaults according to the FX manual.

    Attachment not found.

    I seem to remember my upper range being about 140V, but I'm not sure this is the default based on the manual. It might be 125V. I'm just not sure what they mean by "Set VAC".
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    You do need a MATE to reprogram any Outback Inverter. You need a HUB if you want the inverter and charge controller to "talk" to each other. It's a pity OB didn't put MATE functions in the MX/FM units, but that's how it is.

    Most likely faults to occur: gen out-of-frequency, current setting too high for gen capacity. Sorry I can't be more specific without more data regarding your particular set up.

    I will also apologize in advance for not being around much to offer help. Got a lot problems here myself. :cry:
  • spikowski
    spikowski Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    I remember selecting this particular inverter/charger because it gave me a wider range of AC input voltage and frequency for the battery charger than my older Trace inverter (which required frequency between 57 and 63 hertz, if I remember). But it may be that the default settings are more restrictive than the maximum range that was cited in the literature -- that could explain what I'm seeing. Off to look for a used Mate, or a new one if I have to!
  • sawmill
    sawmill Solar Expert Posts: 93 ✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    While I use Outback equipment, I am certainly no expert but as others have said you will have to have a "Mate" to operate the inverter. Outback inverters are quite picky about their AC input from a generator. There may be a problem with the 54 hertz from your generator, if so the Mate will not help in this regard.
  • spikowski
    spikowski Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    By adjusting the governor on my diesel generator, I can change the frequency, but that adjustment also changes the voltage.

    Hopefully I can find a happy medium to please the charger in my inverter -- but until I understand the error code and the settings, I'm just guessing -- and I haven't yet been able to guess the winning combination!
  • Volvo Farmer
    Volvo Farmer Solar Expert Posts: 209 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    I think a regular old kill-a-watt will measure frequency, if you're looking for a cheap tool to do so.

    Also be advised that when you're charging batteries, the inverter diverts whatever voltage and frequency is coming out of the generator to your normal household loads. I had a voltage regulator go bad on a generator, and the Outback was still within it's specs for charging, but I blew up the control board on the washing machine and let the smoke out of an old power strip before noticing that the voltage was in excess of 130V.
  • spikowski
    spikowski Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    Good point! That could explain why Outback would allow the user to set a narrow range of acceptable input voltage and frequency for its charger, even though the charger is capable of working on a much wider range.

    (I've got an electrician's meter that measures frequency -- probably bought it while dealing with this same problem with an older inverter/charger!)
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"
    spikowski wrote: »
    By adjusting the governor on my diesel generator, I can change the frequency, but that adjustment also changes the voltage.

    I read quite a while ago while looking into why a friends 12" cutofff saw 'was not running quite right"...it was not 'sounding' like it was running at full speed while powered by my gen.
    I read to use the K_A_W meter and set the frequency to 60 Hz and not worry about the V, I got 125V +. What I also read was that the Hz will stay constant when under loads but the V will drop a bit, and it did, my tools have been happy ever since.

    hth
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
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  • SCharles
    SCharles Solar Expert Posts: 123 ✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    I bought a VFX inverter six months ago. I had been spending lots of money on the PV upgrade I was doing, and I was quite displeased to find that the inverter cannot be adjusted at all without a Mate. I ended up having to buy a Mate. There is no way around it as I can see. I did not opt to get a hub. All you need to set up the inverter for charging, etc., is the Mate. I like the inverter, but I was completely disgusted with Outback that I had to then go out and purchase another piece of equipment to set up charging. My old Trace has everything built in. The thing is, Outback does not tell the buyer of the inverter in any place I ever saw that, well, you also need the Mate.
  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"
    SCharles wrote: »
    I was quite displeased to find that the inverter cannot be adjusted at all without a Mate.
    My first reaction was the same as yours, but Outback's approach makes sense to me now. The outback inverters are designed to be stackable. If I were buying four of them to stack, I wouldn't want to pay for the Mate capabilities in each of the four inverters.
    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    It's a blessing to have the flexibility to be able to change a Inverters perimeters. Back in the day you were stuck with a algorithm that someone pre-programed with some setting they thought was right with what they tested it with, that could be miles away from what you needed. It is a bummer to spend a couple thousand $$ and then find you need to spend more, but it's worth it for sure. Being stuck with a Inverter with Fixed setting's is much worse.

    With the Heart Interface and Trace merge into Xantrex it was all confused for a couple years, then Schneider comes the whole thing and we're off in another direction.

    The other issue was the Firmware upgrades.
  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    Actualy Outback isn,t the only inverter that needs an exrea accessory to change inverter settings. You need to get a remote control for a magnum inverter if you want to change factory settongs. :Dsolarvic:D
  • Robin Gudgel
    Robin Gudgel Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 58 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    The old Trace would actually work to a lower frequency, but at a much lower efficiency. You need to get the frequency up on your generator. You can do without the Mate if you increase the frequency.
    Try that first because I'm pretty sure that is what you are going to be doing after buying a Mate.
  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"
    solarvic wrote: »
    Actualy Outback isn,t the only inverter that needs an exrea accessory to change inverter settings. You need to get a remote control for a magnum inverter if you want to change factory settongs. :Dsolarvic:D

    The XW system needs the SCP. In fact the XWMPPT80-600 CC needs the SCP to program too. I have found myself wishing for a remote control on other inverters too (SWs, DRs, SIs) so the operator would not need to be standing right in front if the inverter to turn in on/off or just to see what it is up to.
  • SolaRevolution
    SolaRevolution Solar Expert Posts: 410 ✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"

    BTW;
    The outback Hub system needs an inverter to operate properly.
    I have an installation with ( 8 ) MX60s. I got a hub so I would only need to plug an RTS into one unit but the hub would not allow the RTS readings to be shared without a FX in the system. I had a bad thermal runaway condition happen on a hot summer day. (The batteries got up to 53 deg C.) I wonder if this is also the case if you do have an inverter in the system but it is turned off at the main DC breaker. (not uncommon in small off-grid installations) I have not found any references to this issue (nor have I tested it yet) for the XW system either.

    So the question is-
    If your only RTS / BTS is installed in a networked device but that device is turned off while the rest of the system is operating, does the rest of the system still have temp correction?

    Attachment not found.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Outback "Mate" and "Hub"
    solarvic wrote: »
    Actually Outback isn't the only inverter that needs an extra accessory to change inverter settings. You need to get a remote control for a magnum inverter if you want to change factory settings. :Dsolarvic:D


    Add Victron to that list, they have some manually adjustable Inverters but some need the "Phoenix Inverter control''
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada