LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

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waynefromnscanada
waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
in Energy Use & Conservation #1
A field trial of LED light fittings in social housing says the new technology can deliver huge energy savings, reduce costs and makes residents feel safer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16199552
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    "feel safer"????

    kind of a dumb way of saying something about leds. it makes me think they used to maybe pull a gun on you or explode.:roll:
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    Hahaha Just wondering how long it will take for someone to think up some terrible, apocalyptic health problems with LED lights. Regular old fashioned light bulbs used so much power they loaded up the atmosphere with pollution and emptied your bank account. Early florescent lights flickered and supposedly gave people anything from headaches to epileptic seizures. CFL's supposedly require the armed forces being called in to clean up deathly mercury if one breaks, and gas discharge lamps expose you to anything from X-rays to UV radiation. What horrible and deadly things will they dream up about LED's? Personally I think they're a sneaky way for government to spy on us, little cameras between the chips transmit what they see to authorities, just like smart meters do. ;)
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  • Slappy
    Slappy Solar Expert Posts: 251 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    #4
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report
    waynefromnscanada wrote: »
    What horrible and deadly things will they dream up about LED's?

    It will hurt the "Big wiggs" year end profit bonus.:-)
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #5
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    Well, the world is safe again from Big CFL and big LED (and small politicians:roll:):

    Congress overturns incandescent light bulb ban...
    The spending bill doesn’t actually amend the 2007 law, but does prohibit the administration from spending any money to carry out the light bulb standards — which amounts to at least a temporary reprieve.

    What a nasty way to run a government.

    We are doomed I tell you--DOOMED

    -Bill :roll::cry:
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    From what I've seen in the stores, we've already reached "critical mass". Way more CFLs than other bulbs, with CFLs on the end caps and the incandescents buried mid-aisle. People know now that they can save money using them. So I'm not too worried about this snafu.
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  • monoloco
    monoloco Solar Expert Posts: 103 ✭✭
    #7
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    They certainly offer a brighter future if you live off grid, I can now light up my house like xmas on the 4th of July barely drawing current, I's amazing what you can do with 1-3 watt led's.
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  • Shadowcatcher
    Shadowcatcher Solar Expert Posts: 228 ✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    Wayne, The amount and type of light can affect mood. Seasonal Affected Disorder is recognized condition, basically depression that comes with the decrease in sunlight during fall and winter. For those not seriously affected it can lead to an apatite for carbs, the hibernation response. One of my social work internships was in a purpose built facility and lighting was part of that equation in helping those with depression, schizophrenia, bipolar...
    I would be interested in what color temperature LED's were used.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    One downside to LEDs which I recently read about, blue light affects the circadian rhythm, and LEDs are heavy in blue light (a blue LED excites a phosphorous coating to create white light, like a flourescent light does with ultraviolet light). So those with sleep issues may have big problems if they switch to LED lighting.
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  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    With LEDs being $20 to $25 per unit I will stick with my deadly CFLs.
    I bought a whole case (50) of 13 watt CFLs at lows for 99 cents each back in 2007 and still haven't used them all. I have quite a few left. At this rate that case will last till about 2020, then maybe I might think about LED.

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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report
    techntrek wrote: »
    One downside to LEDs which I recently read about, blue light affects the circadian rhythm, and LEDs are heavy in blue light (a blue LED excites a phosphorous coating to create white light, like a flourescent light does with ultraviolet light). So those with sleep issues may have big problems if they switch to LED lighting.

    Or use the "warm white" LED's. They have their output peaked in the longer wavelengths, thus overpowering the blue in % of light output, while some of the "daylight" and high color temperature LED's are just plain nasty with their excessive blue output.
    I much prefer the warm white for inside use, makes the room feel "warm" with the color of traditional indoor lighting, but prefer the higher color temperature ones for outside, as I don't care for brownish-yellow snow. :D
    Not kidding, the warm whites, while great inside, do a terrible number on snow, and it really shows up on moonlight nights when you can really see the difference in color of snow lit by moonlight, and that lit by warm white from either CFL, or LED sources.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    Doesn't matter what the overall color appears to be, the blue is still there due to the mechanics of white LEDs.
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  • waynefromnscanada
    waynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    Still there yes, as it is in almost all regular household electric light sources, including incandescent. But as mentioned earlier, with warm white, the blue portion that's actually emitted into the environment is a far smaller % of the overall light output than that of higher colour temperature LED sources, bringing it more in line with that from incandescent. With warm white, the internal "bulb" coatings both convert the blue to desired colors, and filter out most of any excess blue that may be left. Unlike many of the higher color temperature LED sources, some of which one can actually see the blue LEDs shining right directly through the phosphor with very little filtering, thus emitting a very high % of blue in the overall spectrum.
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  • telljf
    telljf Registered Users Posts: 26 ✭✭
    #14
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    Normal daylight has a very high % of blue in the overall spectrum. So why would someone have a problem with LEDs just because it has more blue in it? We use cool white LED tubes in most rooms, and we are happy with it. Only problem for some would be when they look directly at the LEDs which can be quite bright for the eyes.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    telljf, the problem is with nighttime exposure. Daylight exposure naturally triggers the waking portion of your internal clock, but nightime exposure to bright lights for some people can reset the clock and make it harder to get to sleep. The gist of the article I read is that this resetting mechanism in the brain is especially sensitive to blue light.

    wayne, I just looked around for the spectrum of white LED and incandescents, this is what I found:
    Attachment not found.
    Attachment not found.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #16
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    I noticed that CFLs weren't included on that first graph, so here is the spectrum for comparison:

    Attachment not found.
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #17
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    techntrek,
    do you know what the color temp was on that cfl that was graphed?
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #18
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    That is for the GE Daylight, I just checked and it is rated at 6500K. Here is a GE page which lets you see and compare about 30 different light sources. http://www.gelighting.com/na/business_lighting/education_resources/learn_about_light/distribution_curves.htm

    This is another GE page where you can look up their products to see their color temperature (which isn't on the spectrum graphs): http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/products/energy_smart.htm
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #19
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    thanks for that info as color temps do vary and would change the distributed color output.
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  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #20
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    All florescent lamps (CFL's, & straight tubes) produce UV light from a mercury vapor arc.

    The phosphor package that is inside the bulb, glows from the UV, and produces light, the ratios of the phosphors controls the light quality/color. Green phosphor is bright & cheap, red phosphors, much less so.
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  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    #21
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    Still doesn't change anything - white LEDs have a ton of blue, incandescents and all colors of CFLs do not. The spectrum for white LEDs, incandescents and a 6500K CFL are above. For comparison, here is a cool white (4150K), warm white (3000K) and GE's lowest-K CFL @ 2700K. There is no difference in the content of the blue.

    Attachment not found.
    4150K

    Attachment not found.
    3000K

    Attachment not found.
    2700K
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #22
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    i like the medium area myself. 3000k to 3500k. too much on either end doesn't do well for me.
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  • scrubjaysnest
    scrubjaysnest Solar Expert Posts: 175 ✭✭✭
    #23
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    We use the bright white LEDs in our RV, great for old eyes reading. Do be careful with the cheaper ones that don't have good air flow and heat sink on the LED as we had one start to smolder.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #24
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    Is there a name / brand on that one?
     
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  • MisterB
    MisterB Solar Expert Posts: 156 ✭✭
    #25
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    I've been accumulating GU10 halogen fixtures over the last year or so. Last time I looked, GU10 LED bulbs were around $18 and shipped from Hong Kong. I found some last week priced at $3.80 a piece in both "Daylight white" and "Warm White" shipped from the USA. I bought 3 of them, 2 day white and 1 warm white.The day white bulbs actually draw only .12a @ 12v--1.4 watts--and give me a good bright working light. The warm white bulb draws .24a @ 12v--pretty close to to 3 watts. I've ordered a 5 pack of the day white bulbs and have set up a 4 light fixture that would draw 200 watts with the 50 watt halogen bulbs that came with it, with these bulbs, 4.8 watts. I put it in my kitchen and have enough light to work with just 1 bulb. With 4 bulbs that is going to be an insane amount of light for 4.8 watts.

    Color wise, I'm okay with them. In my years of off the grid living, I've found a good trick to balance the spectrum is to put a low power incandescent light somewhere. I'm using tiny screw in incandescents that draw .1a @ 12v for this. Just 1 makes a big difference. I also use 10 watt halogen lights for working and reading lights. I don't like florescent lights at all in any form. How we react to different light spectra is an individual thing and one mans light is not another's.

    With this kind of power draw and the price coming down the way it is, LEDs do look like the wave of the future. For off the grid living for sure and for places like the UK where the grid is much more expensive as well.
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  • silvertop
    silvertop Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #26
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    Being off grid, I love fact that I can purchase recessed can, 4.5 W reflector led's and light up my house quite brightly; getting the lights up high is quite a benefit. I have bought both warm and cool and can tell you I HAVE NO PROBLEMS SLEEPING! The color took a bit to get used to for my wife but, the energy savings that can be utilized else where are wonderful. I have been buying these online for about a year for $10-$12 each. I have them everywhere including outside on motion sensers. I have had minimum failure rate; about the same as cfl's. Someone told me that people in Europe perfer the cooler color. We have old time carriage fixtures on our stone wall behind the wood stove; They are lit with flame type LED's which we have painted with paint glass paint which is translucent, to give them the older look the application calls for........ also frosted glass spray can be applied to soften the glow.
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  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    #27
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    I found a new LED toy that fills a lot of applications.
    Go to lowes or homedepo and look in the LED section and find a "G4 halogen LED replacement array" for $9.
    They are rated for 12v, 1w (more like 1.4w) and put out like 62L at 3500k.
    I find them quite useful, (will post my G4 array vehicle mods later).
    They have AC and DC units.
    They are "assembled in USA".
    I find the G4 array useful in vehicle and DC applications.

    Still dont see the point in LED for inside the house, they use like 4% less power than a CFL but cost 20 to 30 times as much as an on sale CFL.
    I say use CFLs where you have AC power and save money to buy other toys like solar panels, batteries and G4 arrays.

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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #28
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    Siolvertop, do you have a pic of the unit before install? I think I know what they look like but...

    tks
    ej
     
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  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    #29
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448961

    Vehicles and LEDs got together like bread and butter.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

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  • silvertop
    silvertop Solar Expert Posts: 155 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #30
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    I don't have a pic readily available, but I will put a link to take you to the Ebay vendor we purchase from. We usually purchase the
    90 LED reflector type bulbs for recessed cans @ 4.5W and the flame tips with same criteria.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400105990113

    The reflector bulbs aren't currently available in standard base, but you can search Ebay as well for the adapters. We've gotten them 3 for $5.00 or so.

    Definitely worth the money for the savings and not as expensive as some imply!
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #31
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    Re: LEDs offer a brighter future, says report

    sorry. I was referring to the G4 units, found some LED replacements bulbs on Ebay.

    those Edison bases are sure pricy!
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
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