48 Volt forklift battery

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Comments

  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 48 Volt forklift battery

    I bet mike is onto something! I just got a standard forklift battery, though I'll check the attached label in the morning.

    The company is truely clueless! I was never offered a "Solar" battery as an option, they couldn't discribe connecting cables in a quote so I had them make a battery with flags(all cells soldered) Quote came "with all aplicable taxes included" then they asked me for my tex number though they have known all along I am the end user.

    I bet if you ask around about different specs for solar batteries, perhaps they are different, and the SG listed on the case is a legacy thing from being primarily a forklift battery maker!

    Sorry I didn't get even the very marginal info today, I was chasing down info and drawing up and signing an agreement to purchase a tin can and 2.2 acres. Looks like Tuesday may be overcast and Wed close to 100 degrees, niether good for checking a topped off battery at rest. Good news... my real hydrometer should show up wed or thursday.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • jabb
    jabb Registered Users Posts: 16
    Re: 48 Volt forklift battery

    I looked up the president's name online and am sending him a letter of complaint. I'll let you know if /when he responds. It looks like they have a location in Canada as well as Illinois, but I've been dealing with Illinois. The link to RE batteries
    http://www.bbibattery.com/alternative_energy_storage/alternative_energy_storage_batteries.html#
    The cases were made by GB battery and they were the sales people.
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 48 Volt forklift battery

    Hi jabb,

    Still a curious set of info.

    Several questions:

    1. When you are doing the EQ, and you terminate it at 110 F, what was the starting temp?

    2. Are you measuring the temp of only the Pilot cell, or each cell? Is there ANY variation in temp between any of the cells?

    Regarding Mike's wonderment, an SG of 1.125 represents less half of the acid of 1.285 SG. Believe that batteries made to spend most of their time in Float, are often 1.250. Am no expert, but, have never heard of any FLA Lead/Antimony battery with target SG below 1.250.

    Perhaps I missed it, but what do the CCs show for the total AH or KWH delivered to the batts (this does include loads during the charge, of course)?

    RE the 5548 Charger. Think that you are referring to the AC in Amps -- the 39 A that you mentioned. With an adequate genset, the 5548 should easily be able to do 75 Amps DC during Bulk

    3. The Brady had been referred to as Temp Compensating.
    EDIT: The Brady Hydrometer that bought several years did have a thermometer in its base section, but there was NO indication that it did Temp Compensation. Now, seems that all of the Brady Hydros for batteries may have temp Comp as a standard feature, altho it is a bit ambiguous (to me).

    It is fine to rinse the Hydrometer with distilled water prior to taking measurments, but it is critical to also rinse it well just after you have finished using it, as well

    Good Luck, and keep cool, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • mikeo
    mikeo Solar Expert Posts: 386 ✭✭✭
    Re: 48 Volt forklift battery
    Regarding Mike's wonderment, an SG of 1.125 represents less half of the acid of 1.285 SG
    You are right, sorry typo on my part, 1.225 is what I meant to convey. Thanks for the correction.
  • jabb
    jabb Registered Users Posts: 16
    Re: 48 Volt forklift battery

    My starting temps the last two months have been pretty high 100F they vary 2 to 5 degrees between cells. Sometimes I use 4 pilot cells one in each case and every month I check all the cells. The SG on the cases and the salesman said they should be at 1.285 once a week. I have not accomplished this.
    I just fixed my flexNet DC monitor today with the inverter and both MX60's connected, I should be able to provide better readings during the next few days. The battery was disconnected for 2 hours today with no loads and the results were a little higher than last time and my SG's varied for the first time between 1.210 and 1.240 It's too hot to equalize. I'm using WinVerter Monitor OB and it shows I have delivered 361.1Kwh to the batteries from 8/24 @ 5:54PM to 8/26 @ 11:16AM then I reset the total. I have a 11Kw Diesel Isuzu Genset.
    My Brady 12" Temperature Compensated Battery Hydrometer, is exactly as you describe. It tells you what to add (mostly in my case because of high temps right now, should be cooling off a little next month) by the temperature gauge, built in. I do a final rinse when I am finished.
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 48 Volt forklift battery

    Hi jabb,

    Am a bit tardy in getting back.

    Thanks for the additional info on the system. YES, those temps are HIGH, but that is the system that you are dealing with at this time.

    Those SGs are low, and you need to charge the battery bank. The temp variations are a bit surprising (large variation), but may be more from the thermal environment than from differences between the SG of the cells.

    There may be a typo in the data regarding the total charge going into the bank in a 1.5ish day period. This is an astonishingly large amount of power, tho.

    Personally, a battery monitor is a great tool, but it needs to be carefully set, monitored vs bank SGs, and then adjusted to read reality more correctly. IMHO, you could leave the battery monitor behind for a while, while you get the bank fully charged daily, or every couple of days.

    I still wonder what the total of the AH of KWh the CCs show on a typical day. Seems to me that your bank is simply NOT getting recharged. You have a lot of solar available. Perhpas it has been very cloudy/rainy and so on. Know that the ambient temps must be high, which reduces the solar power arailable etc. I should go back, and see if you have posted your loads on the system. Perhaps there are large A/C loads, or water pumping loads which consume the solar input, but wonder just where the solar power is going, or, if there is some problem on the solar input side of the equation.

    You seem to have an adequate genset for the inverter/charger. Make certain that you have both the AC in current and the charger currents set to take maximum advantage of the gensset and charger's capability.

    SSOoo, two questions:

    1. How much solar KWH or AH does each CC display at the end of an average day?

    2. Just what are the loads on the battery bank each day (yes, this can be difficult to know w/o the bat monitor). OR, what are the nature of your daily loads?

    A battery bank really needs to be fully charged before EQing. Perhaps the bat manufacturer is accustomed to the fork-lift chargers, which may have no other way to recharge a low bank, except an EQ. I clearly do not know.

    Thanks for the data, good luck, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • jabb
    jabb Registered Users Posts: 16
    Re: 48 Volt forklift battery

    Readings over the last 3 days, with the shunts installed. These are above average because of the heat.
    CC1 & CC2 in KWh & Total Then CC1 & CC2 in AH & Total The Shunts are AH in Total from both CC's and AH out from the Inverter.
    Date: P1K p2K TotK p1A p2A TotA AHIn AHOut Batt KwhIn KwhOut Batt #
    08/28/11: 3.8 11.6 15.4 71 215 286 282 256 26 15.29 13.15 2.14
    08/29/11: 4.5 14.3 18.8 85 264 349 347 360 -13 18.75 18.63 0.12
    08/30/11: 3.8 11.5 15.3 70 212 282 278 233 45 15.07 11.83 3.24

    The numbers are very close, so I think they are pretty accurate. We have been using more fans and a/c during these hot days. It should be cooling some next month. Our typical usage has been about 10Kwh per day.

    I did get the BBI manufactures recommendation of:
    Bulk/Absorb = 2.40vpc for 3 hours.
    Float = 2.25vpc
    Equalize = 2.60vpc monthly.
    Temperature not to exceed 120 degrees F.

    I guess it's possible to spend your entire life managing batteries with Solar. Thank-You for your input. I hope I can resolve this before the batteries are a year old.
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: 48 Volt forklift battery

    Hi jabb,

    Thanks for the additional data. Great that you got the last shunt, and have it wired into the system.

    Will take a bit of time to study this new data, not that I'm any expert.
    Hope it cools there. More later. Thanks, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: 48 Volt forklift battery

    I did get the BBI manufactures recommendation of:
    Bulk/Absorb = 2.40vpc for 3 hours.
    Float = 2.25vpc
    Equalize = 2.60vpc monthly.
    Temperature not to exceed 120 degrees F.

    This is pretty dang close to what I'm setup for, though I can't limit by temp.

    I checked 4 cells Monday while in float and they were all @1.280 - 1.285 so at least for the short time I've had my forklift 24 volt version of this battery, my electrolite is getting mixed and the SG readings are staying correct.

    Did you ask about the solar versions having a slightly lower SG reading?

    Also don't know if those values are just the current running across the shunt, but typically you need to have 10% more going into the battery than comming out as charging isn't 100% effiecent. Looks like if that is the case your loosing charge. Also as I read it the AH going out is being measured at the inverter?(mine doesn't do this, but perhaps you have a meter there?) But is that the total Kwh it's putting out during the day? if so that would not include it's 90% effiecentcy.

    Cool days a coming, you'll get a chance to catchup!

    I took charge of the tin can today!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • jabb
    jabb Registered Users Posts: 16
    Re: 48 Volt forklift battery

    The Solar versions are listed for the high SG of 1.285
    The shunt is connected from the Inverter to the Battery to measure my usage going out.
    On 9/1 I equalized which BBI recommended 4 hours. The SG got to 1.270 after 2 hours and I had to stop it because the temp got to 120F. That day I got 405AH in 220AH out, so 185AH to the battery.
    Every day is different, but most the time it is close to 10%. Also I've been told that my 2000 watt set of panels can be rewired to make them more efficient, so I want to try that too. I am really looking forward to cooler days.
  • scottb
    scottb Registered Users Posts: 5
    edited September 2021 #42
    ok, so i have been using a 48 volt 850 ah@8 hrs for 11 years now. the biggest problem i have had is leakage at the jar top. also the metal case is a big problem shorting cels. the center battery will tend to sulfate.best to remove them from the case build a wooden case from 1-inch plywood through-bolted with a threaded rod. remove ic connectors and REPLACE WITH FLAG TERMINALS.cast or buy a 1-inch bar 1 by 1 by? 20 inch. cut blocks to fit snugly between flags, drill 1/4  to 5/16 bolt hole in blocks bolt it all together BEFORE welding flags down, bolts just need to be snug the lead carries the load, threaded rods should be snug enough to prevent jar swelling / bulging plates apart, not tight! wrap the whole thing in a battery heater at 70 degrees setting.

    NOW, THE REASON FOR ALL THIS, your center and end batteries will not come up to 1.265 sg because it is stuck in the plates. you will have to burn it out.at 100 percent sg is 1.265 at 2.1 Vdc at 80 degrees, all readings start at 80, every 10 degrees up or down add or subtract .004 from sg reading. this is the temp of the acid/water mix.75 percent is 1.225 2.08 volt at 80,50 percent is2.04 volt sg 1.190 at 80,25 percent is 1.98 volts sg 1.120 at 80. DO NOT CHECK SG AFTER CHARGING, LET IT SET 8 HOURS BEFORE CHECKING !

    ASSUMING YOUR LBCO ON YOUR INVERTERS IS 40 VOLTS, your battery voltage would be 1.6! not good stop discharge at 1.98 volts 25 percent. you need to separate batteries by standing sg reading lowest to highest. groups of three or 6 depending on what you have for chargers. set them to charge at 50 amps 12v or 6 v get them boiling good, watch the temp, and cut back if over 100 degrees.

    if one or more is slow to boil set it aside. speed or boil/off-gassing is the amount of sulfation. now if you have not added acid or spilled any fluid while charging you should see sg way in the 2.50 2.65 area voltage up to 2.5 or so..let it stand 8 hrs n recheck should be very close to above settings at 100 percent at 80 degrees +/- .004 temp compensation. after 8 hrs your sg is too high or low adjust mixture CAREFULLY, SMALL AMOUNTS! use distilled or deionized water only. too high sg eats plates too low lack of capacity. by rights every time you change the mixture you need to take it to 25% and reboil it to mix fluids let stand and recheck.sg.you can make it read higher voltage but less current will be the result. you want more amps not volts.

    if your batteries and put together like i suggested they can be rotated inside out to equalize charging patterns.i would not drain them more than 50 percent 2.04 volts at 80 degrees. if you need to go deeper into the charge you need more panels to supply the load. all this applies to bbi lead sponge type batteries...

    hope this helps....

    PS for minor jar leaks use 100 percent butyl 6-inch tape it's acid-resistant.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    scottb said:..........
    if one or more is slow to boil set it aside. speed or boil/off-gassing is the amount of sulfation.....
    .......
    Batteries are NEVER supposed to boil.   They Gas.  As they approach full charge, the electric current starts to break down the water to Oxygen and Hydrogen.  That creates explosive gas, but it's not boiling.  

     A brand new battery can be over charged and gas a lot, but it's not boiling, and it's not removing any sulfation

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • HankStarr
    HankStarr Registered Users Posts: 1
    Hi....Tracked down a 48v 680ah forklift battery pack for $830. It's 8 years of age, all cells method near 2v, couldn't test with hygrometer, yet liquid levels are great overall. Would you folks face a challenge on them for an off lattice sun powered arrangement? It weighs 2765lbs and would be somewhat of an aggravation to move, however I can do it. I could generally scrap it for $415 so it's anything but an enormous bet, yet I may be in an ideal situation going Lifepo4, in spite of the fact that I was unable to manage close to as much limit. What amount of limit do all of you think they'd have left? I could just do half DOD right?
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2021 #45
    Wish I could understand what you are asking bettter.

    Not sure what this means;
    Would you folks face a challenge on them for an off lattice sun powered arrangement?

    Not sure how you are using 'limit' in these;
    "... I was unable to manage close to as much limit. What amount of limit do..."

    "...all cells method near 2v, couldn't test with hygrometer,"

    At 2 volts per cell the battery is around 1/2 capacity and sulfating.

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.