Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

Flubber · July 2011

I recently purchased 8 new Rolls Surette S-530 batteries here is my review.

Before I installed them I put them all on a individual charge with a high quality computerized charger.

One battery had a clearly defective cell that was not gassing and read as discharged with the hydrometer.

One battery showed a significantly lower SG. readings than the others even after repeated charging.

One battery showed an abnormally high SG. reading of 1.280, the others were at 1.260. They should be at 1.265 according to the manufacturer, after they are put in service.

I spoke with Surette and they only wanted to replace one battery, and they wanted me to work with the other two that had issues. This was unacceptable to me and illustrated the integrity of this company. I can only imagine what difficulty one would have with their warranty if the batteries were not brand new! Also it was quite clear that their quality control was awful. So I returned all the batteries for a refund, didn't want to do any business with them or use their products after my experience with Rolls Surette.

In case any one is wondering about the manufacturing dates on the batteries, they were about 6 months old. I had called Surette before I picked them up and asked how to read the date code and how old they should be, they told me 3-4 months. Then later when I was dealing with them about the issues with the batteries they said that the manufacturing date had no significance and the information they had told me earlier was incorrect! It was quite clear they were disingenuous and yet another indicator to get away from this company.

I am not posting this to bash them, Just to post my experience with their products and their service, to inform others. Obviously what I would have expected from a decent company was for them to say "looks like you got a set of slightly older batteries that may have developed some issues, so we will send you out a fresh set and make sure they are all top notch". But instead of this I got a brush off and deception! Not a way to do business!

waynefromnscanada · July 2011

Re: Rols Surette S-530 Rewiews,Defective, Problems

OUCH! What's going on at Surette? They always had top quality reputation and I recently pointed my cousin their way for his L-16's. He had to wait for them to be manufactured, so they really are brand new, but haven't been put into service yet. He's very picky, so if they don't preform, I'm gonna be wearing them up side of the head because of my recommendation.

Vic · July 2011

Re: Rols Surette S-530 Rewiews,Defective, Problems

Flubber,

Sorry to hear of your problems with the S-530s from Surrette.

Have three banks of Surrettes here, and in general, they have been very good, altho, they were all made in 2005. i have always felt that Surrette has been very responsive and helpful.

In initially reading the Surrette Battery Manual, and the Solar version of it, they have recommended that a bank initially be EQed upon receipt EDIT: Well, just went back to read the Solar Manual, and it says nothing about an initial EQ, but just a charge (ooopppsss). My Surrettes had a reasonable variation of SGs, and it was suggested to eq them, which I did, and did a few cycles, and they did settle in.

Link to the Solar Battery Manual page:
http://www.rollsbattery.com/content/battery-user-manual

Select the Solar Battery Manual if that is your application ( altho, the "S" in the part number means Solar, I believe.
It is also important to cycle them a few times, as no manufacturer of mainstream FLAs does this as a part of manufacturing. This is the "placed in service" process that was referred to.

I DO believe that if one is very careful, if is possible to measure SGs to within 5 points, but one needs to be careful about it.

Regarding cells reading 1.280, and 1.260 initially, this is really a small variation, especially on a new bank. It sounds to me that this bank was not ever placed in service -- perhaps reading too much into what you wrote. You might try taking successive readings on a single cell and see how repeatable your readings -- ie, how consistant ther readings are. The cells that are 10 - 20 points off will often meet the others with some number of cycles.

I do not know how Surrette assings Date Codes to batteries. It is quite possible that a certain model number is made in lots (groups), and the DC applied, but the "Activation" stage is not done. Activation is where the electrolyte is installed, and the activation charge is applied. Perhpas they are activated upon demand (?).

I have no relationship with or interest in Surrette. But it can be easy to have some concerns initially, perhaps make a few assumptions, and conclude that a product is generally BAD, when things are not exactly as they appear to that person.

I dunno. Almost all of my neighbors run Trojans, and most of them have had poor luck with them. But few of them can meet Troajan's charge specs.

Good Luck, Vic

waynefromnscanada · July 2011

Re: Rols Surette S-530 Rewiews,Defective, Problems

Thanks for your post Vic. Makes me feel better.

Cariboocoot · July 2011

Re: Rolls Surette S-530 Rewiews; Defective, Problems

These threads may not make you so happy:

http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=11235&highlight=Surrette

http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=11516&highlight=Surrette

http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?t=12170&highlight=Surrette

Vic · July 2011

Re: Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

Marc,

Think that I've followed all of these threads. Surrette sells a lot of Solar batteries. At least one of these customers was dealing with a dealer/distributor. In such a case Surrette IS responsible for the actions of a dealer/disti, but this added layer adds uncertainties, and things that we can never know. This is a problem for Surrette to resolve, but we cannot all that has transpired.

I've seen nothing but problems with Trojans around here, and with X C-Series CCs. It is often difficult for the end-user to sort out these problems.

Some of us have unrealistic expectations, such as SG matches to better than five points on ititial delivery and so on.

Some of the customers seem to have seen batteries that are legally dead on arrival, and other manufacturing issues, like the bad weld and so on. These are definitely problems with Surrettes. The only real problems with my two larger banks were from rough shipping in the ride from NS to CA. Acid all over everything, batteries had shifted on the pallets, and the top of one jar had a broken weld, which Surrette immediately resolved by sending a new cell without charge. And almost certainly due to very rough handling by Roadway Freight.

Personally, think that there may be a bit of a bias forming against Surrette around here, and hope that we all can remain objective.

I have no horse in this race, but realize that more and more folks are setting up battery based or backed systems, in an almost perfect vacuum and with some prehaps unrealistic expectations and so on.

Not to lecture, but had an instant concern upon viewing the topit: "More Surrette Problems", IIRC the exact name ... seemed a bit judegmental to me ... oops am I, perhaps, being too judgemental?

KMHO, YMMV, Whatta I know? Vic

Cariboocoot · July 2011

Re: Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

Vic;

I'm to blame for that title as I split it off another thread. Just couldn't think of what else to call it.

Somehow "George's adventures in the onion packing plant" didn't seem properly explanatory.

Is it some kind of curious coincidence that bad Surrette battery tales keep showing up here? Could be. I don't recall any such complaints about Crown or Trojans, for whatever reason. Not likely it's lower sales volumes either, as these three companies certainly make up the majority of RE battery sales - and a lot more outside RE.

Nevertheless, Surrette does make a concerted effort to correct problems when they occur and keep their customers happy. That's more than can be said for a lot of companies these days. :roll:

niel · July 2011

Re: Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

i think we can sum up that all battery manufacturers have had problems and stuff happens even if it is only to one battery or a whole batch. it is disturbing to me to hear of incidents and i'm sure it is equally disturbing to those looking for batteries to hear of these kinds of incidents and that does make the decision making process of what battery to get even tougher. sometimes we go overboard demanding our batteries be of a certain sg or a certain voltage or whatever and many times we make too much of a 'to do' about nothing. sure, if there is a problem we'd all like to know, but take it with more of a grain of salt for we don't always know it's not as big as we've made it or if there is a bigger underlying problem.

i guess one thing we can agree on is that our batteries cost allot of $ and i guess that is why we are being more particular and splitting hairs at times. human nature i guess.:roll: it isn't good if something bad happens with a product, but manufacturers should also know that how they react to their customers can be a + even in the face of a disaster. a company's admissions of problems and the good will toward their customers actually boosted business for one pv company even though they have since riddled their warranty to look like everybody else's in light of their disaster with an out for every occasion so that they won't have to ante-up if they goof again big time. at least that's how i read many warranties out there now.

Flubber · July 2011

Re: Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

If Rolls Surette could deliver 5 out of eight batteries that were OK, then with better quality control they could deliver all eight. How they do it is up to them obviously their are distribution issues to deal with, but that is the business they are in selling batteries and getting them to the consumer, if they cant get their product to the consumer in good shape their useless. Their is no question that 3 of the batteries I got out of 5 were bad. Unless you (Rolls Surette) want to say that some units will be off in their accurate Sg. by 10-20% and acept that. That of course is inferior. Based on the other recent post about Rolls Surette bad welds, and others I have seen about Rolls Surette, looks like they havent perfected their manufacturing.But in general I can always remember about how lead acid batteries had issues like dieing unexpectedly even when not that old, so maybe this technology is tough to get 100% good product and they really can't tell the ones that are rejects. I really don't know. But I do know from a business standpoint they should take more losses in returns because this would help them in the long run, but their stupid. I have seen a lot of negative posts about them, and if they got new batteries out to all those people they would have killed the issue and left at least a neutral customer

Vic · July 2011

Re: Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

Hi Marc,

I was not blaming anyone. Just had a bit of a concern.

Yes, you are correct that here, we do read about more problems with Surrette than any of the other manufacturers. It is difficult to know the ratio of sales of the various battery manufacturers vs the population of posters on this site.

Regarding the original post by flubber, it seemed rich in opinion, but was a bit lacking in data. And much more data would allow others to evaluate for themselves weather the batteries and cells were defective based on objective cirteria.

If a new battery or cell is "defective" when its SG varies more than 10 or 15 points, then many many batteries from a number of different manufacturers are "defective".

Also there was a reference to a computer controlled charger that was used to charge individual batteries. It would be intresting to have more data on the brand and specs on this charger. Normally, one would commission an entire bank at once, if one's charging system was completed and on-line. And that chargins system would meet the minimum charge current specs of the manufacturer, or at least the normal minimum of 5% of 20 Hr capacity.

The normal process for commissioning a battery bank is to place it on a temperature-controlled charge, monitor the SGs and stop charging when the SGs come into the range of full charge, or the SGs stop rising + 30 to 60 minutes. If there are variations of more than 15-25 points (depending upon the battery manufacturer's spec), then an EQ should be done on the bank. Am not certain that this was done with the bank in question.

If there are still variations of 20 or so points, then a few cycles, to 50% SOC, or so should be performed, as this often brings the SG variation into a smaller range.

I am NO expert in the manufacture of batteries, or solar electric power systems, but, to me, looking for SG matching to within 10, or so points is a waste of time. The difference in performance is nil, and the ability to measure within 5 points takes a good eye, good tools, and careful attention to the process of measurement.

Done, Just my opinions, Vic

Flubber · July 2011

Re: Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

When 5 out of 8 batteries when put on an individual charge and their sg comes up to 1.260, and 2 others go to 1.230 and 1.280 and one has a dead cell thats a pretty big inconsistency in my mind (of course you will have to accept my data, but let me say I believe it is accurate).

Further more I spoke to Rolls Surette before I purchased their batteries about what to expect as far as what the new sg. levels should be and I was told they should be consistent, and then as in many cases when there was a problem you get the story of how this is normal and you have to "work" the batteries and over time the should be ok. So either they don't know much about their own product, or they are trying to deal with their low quality production, either way not good.

And much more data would allow others to evaluate for themselves

we do read about more problems with Surrette than any of the other manufacturers

That is your data right there, on the net your only going to get some kind of consensus of opinion, but over time if you keep hearing negative things about a product there is some truth there. I would venture to say that most of the people here that don't have Rolls Surette batteries and have no issues don't post about their batteries.

Again I say that the inconsistency is unacceptable if 60% of their product can be delivered correctly then unless the technology by its nature cannot be perfected ( I doubt this) consumers don't want to have to hope that 40% of what they just spent thousands of dollars on will maybe be Ok, and based on all the Rolls Surett post I have now read, I am glad I returned my batteries because it looks like a lot of Rolls Surette batteries don't`end up not Ok from what I have read, even after people have spent much time trying to trouble shoot their relatively new Rolls Surette batteries .

niel · July 2011

Re: Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

flubber,
i understand your frustration, but you cannot blanket your experience beyond your experience so you don't know the full scope of it. for all you know there may have been trouble with say 10 or even 50 batteries that went out out of several thousand made due to an oversite not readily seen. all battery manufacturers have periodic problems and the problem size can vary too. on the surface it isn't looking good right now, but we can't know the extent of the overall picture by a few bad instances no matter how incriminating it may seem. if it is big in scope and they are sitting on it in a bad way then this will come to be seen in time and was my point about honesty with the customer while honoring warranties. again, we don't know it can be blanketed to just being a bad battery design or manufacturing defect that is very widespread.

Flubber · July 2011

Re: Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

I agree in that I cant really make a judgment about the general quality of their batteries I don't have enough data for that but, I can make a certain judgment about their company based on my experience, in summary:

1)Prior to receiving their product I was told by the company what specifications the new product should meet when individually tested prior to installation.

2)Upon receipt of their product it did not meet those specifications.

3)When I notified them of this, and wanted replacements I got a run a round and conflicting information from what I was initially told as far as what those specification were, and now they were conveniently different to match what I received, except for the unit with the dead cell.

So there is clearly a problem there at their office for sure its just that simple. Based on their actions I would not advise any one to business with Rolls Surette.

Vic · July 2011

Re: Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

OK,

Happy that you have resolved the issue.

Good Luck with your system. vic

Rolls Surette S-530 Reviews; Defective, Problems

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