Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

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  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Just as a warning, Touching the positive and negative terminals of a battery can cause the battery to explode in your face! I speak as one who has done it. Cover the battery with a towel except for the terminal you are working on, wear safety glasses at the very lease, and have running water available in case you get acid on yourself. I am not meaning to scare anyone, but just advising caution.

    Tony
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Depending on the loads/inverter--you may also get small sparks as you disconnect/reconnect the wiring...

    What is a small spark--If you asking if it is a big or small spark, it is probably a small spark.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!
    BB. wrote: »
    Depending on the loads/inverter--you may also get small sparks as you disconnect/reconnect the wiring...

    What is a small spark--If you asking if it is a big or small spark, it is probably a small spark.

    -Bill

    Yes, 'cause the big ones leave you asking "WHAT HAPPENED?!" Sometimes of a person wearing white. :p

    Right now I'm reasoning along these lines: just enough panel + power loss from wrong type of controller + incorrect wiring of battery bank = one set of batteries doing all the work and not getting a proper recharge * repeated use = lowered capacity, i.e. ruined batteries.

    At any rate, the first step is still to evaluate the condition of the batteries after a proper charge and rest period. Preferably with a Specific Gravity reading.
  • icarus
    icarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,436 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    To be safe, kill all the loads, and all the charging current, then any arc when you disconnect or reconnect the wire will be small.

    T
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Meg,

    I've been following the thread from the beginning. I am sure that most of us here would be embarrassed if we had wired an installation the way yours was wired. (well, we wouldn't have, but you get the point).

    Good question from Cariboocoot about the fuses too.

    The questions I don't remember being asked or answered and may or may not have anything to do with the problems are:

    What is powering your refrigerator (assuming you are using propane, there is still 12V needed for most RV fridges)?

    What is charging your RV batteries that power your lights, water pump, fridge and other normal RV loads?

    Phil
  • meghammock
    meghammock Solar Expert Posts: 43
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    You'd think they'd make rubber wrenches by now.. Hehe:)

    I can do that! Not too klutzy of a person, and do have wrench experience. Will just need to get electrical tape.....

    Icarus:"To be safe, kill all the loads, and all the charging current, then any arc when you disconnect or reconnect the wire will be small."
    --On board with killing all loads (not having anything on and/or running).. Charging current meaning throw a blanket over the panels? What is arc?

    Icarus:"Just as a warning, Touching the positive and negative terminals of a battery can cause the battery to explode in your face!"
    --You mean like when jumpstarting a car battery.. Touching the wires of the opposite ends makes big sparks?

    Cariboocoot:"At any rate, the first step is still to evaluate the condition of the batteries after a proper charge and rest period. Preferably with a Specific Gravity reading. "
    --HAHAHAHA OK, wearing black sweatpants tonight!! XD How would I get the Specific Gravity reading? Assuming with a tool I don't have yet?..

    BB:"Depending on the loads/inverter--you may also get small sparks as you disconnect/reconnect the wiring...

    What is a small spark--If you asking if it is a big or small spark, it is probably a small spark."
    --OK.. So little sparks are OK and normal..?

    SOOOO.. I need to detach the inverter and let the batteries charge and set all day tomorrow.. Then hook it back up and see what happens Sunday?
  • meghammock
    meghammock Solar Expert Posts: 43
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    PhilS, First off.. HI!! :)

    I'm not sure about fuses.. Where would they be?

    We're actually not using the fridge OR water pump right now because of the issues we've been having. Water pump will be run off of the panels, fridge, I'm not sure if we'll end up using the one in the camper/house.. We have a fridge up the road that we use (yeah, pain in the tooshy!). We'll probably use the system IF it's not too much to ask of the system when it's all figured out, but I'm not pushing it right now.
    We run the lights and stuff off of the panels/batteries when they work (laughable), and off of the generator when the system isn't working..

    Man, I didn't even wire the thing and I'm embarrassed by it! I have no experience--Just read on it all--and thought it looked like a mess!! UGH, I can't wait 'till we find an answer...... *sigh*
  • SteveK
    SteveK Solar Expert Posts: 387 ✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Meg,

    Do you have a battery charger to go with that genny?
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!
    meghammock wrote: »
    Icarus:"To be safe, kill all the loads, and all the charging current, then any arc when you disconnect or reconnect the wire will be small."
    --On board with killing all loads (not having anything on and/or running).. Charging current meaning throw a blanket over the panels? What is arc?
    Yes, not running... The idea is no charging current (dark, panels covered, switched off--if there is a solar power switch) or discharging/loads.

    What the concern is the Inverter... Your inverter has a very low "on/no AC load" power rating... May be real or it may not. Concern is that the inverter is draining the batteries even though you think it is off.

    Standby loads (DVD player, radios, TV, etc.)--you can think everything is off, but they are still drawing a little bit of power (waiting for remote to turn on, DVR waiting to record show, etc.).

    With solar systems, these "standby" loads can be very significant and drain your battery bank if not stopped.
    Icarus:"Just as a warning, Touching the positive and negative terminals of a battery can cause the battery to explode in your face!"
    --You mean like when jumpstarting a car battery.. Touching the wires of the opposite ends makes big sparks?
    Jumping a car battery--those are probably "small sparks". Large sparks can sound like a firecracker.
    Cariboocoot:"At any rate, the first step is still to evaluate the condition of the batteries after a proper charge and rest period. Preferably with a Specific Gravity reading. "
    --HAHAHAHA OK, wearing black sweatpants tonight!! XD How would I get the Specific Gravity reading? Assuming with a tool I don't have yet?..
    A Hydrometer. You can get a cheap one from a autoparts store. Expensive ones are much more accurate. For Example:
    wind-sun_2143_26909541Brady 10" Precision Battery Hydrometer
    Price: $26.25


    If you have Sealed/AGM/Gel type batteries, you cannot use a Hydrometer.
    BB:"Depending on the loads/inverter--you may also get small sparks as you disconnect/reconnect the wiring...

    What is a small spark--If you asking if it is a big or small spark, it is probably a small spark."
    --OK.. So little sparks are OK and normal..?
    Yes they are normal... But can be disconcerting--so you have to make sure you don't drop the wrench or cables and get more sparks.
    SOOOO.. I need to detach the inverter and let the batteries charge and set all day tomorrow.. Then hook it back up and see what happens Sunday?

    Just a debugging suggestion. Getting a Clamp on DC Amp meter, or a Battery Monitor can measure the current flowing directly and tell us a whole lot more information.

    I am not convinced your inverter is drawing significant power when off (it could be--I just don't know).

    But measuring the battery bank voltage when charging (solar during day, genset during night) for an hour or two can at least tell us that something is working correctly.

    By the way, do you have an AC battery charger from the genset to the battery bank?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • meghammock
    meghammock Solar Expert Posts: 43
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    I'm not sure if the battery charger is AC--I'll check tonight.. It is configured to where we have to manually plug up the generator (it is not electric) up for the battery charger to work. Charger has teeny wires (which you probably saw in the picture) hooked from battery bank to charger.

    I actually unplug EVERYTHING (tv, vcr, phone chargers, microwave) when they're not in use.. It's literally just the inverter (switched off) when the bank drains.. But I think I'm on board with what you're saying about only half of the bank working properly, and that being sucked dry by what little power the inverter eats. Definitely worth checking! Suppose I will wait to fiddle with the actual battery wiring (sans inverter wires) 'till this test is run..?

    AHHH, I had a note on the hydrometer but couldn't read my note beside it due to snow bleeding my ink out! Haha! I'll have to grab one of those bad boys... Also wanted to ask, is the battery monitor something I can hook up myself??
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Battery Monitors

    This is the main difficult part to bolt up to the one negative common battery cable (all power has to flow through the shunt):

    wind-sun_2143_13463247Deltec 500 amp, 50 millivolt current shunt

    The rest is normal small wires and installing the panel somewhere (look at the Trimetric for a good price/performance model--you can get the RV version with mounting box).

    If you have sealed batteries--the Hydrometer will not work.

    For the Generator--it sounds like they connected to the low power Generator Battery charger--Not nearly the correct thing to do... I have to go at the moment--back later.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Depending on exactly what 5kW generator you have--The one I found has an 8.3 amp 12 volt battery charger output.

    That is totally unreasonable for your size battery bank. You should be around 5-13% or even 20% or more for your batteries.

    If this is a 430 AH 12 volt battery bank, you should be aiming for at least 10% or 43 amp charger minimum. Or 5x the size (it appears) that is currently hooked up. 8 amps is a 2% rate of charge--just barely larger than a trickle/maintenance charger.

    For a 5 kW genset, a good sized charger (fuel efficient) would be:
    • 5,000 watts * 50% rated load * 80% efficient charger * 1/14.5 volts = 138 amps (typical maximum 12 volt charger that could be supported)
    So, at this point the 5kW genset, unless you have other AC loads (air conditioning, several microwaves, etc.)--Sounds way over-sized, and if there is no AC battery charger connected (using the 8 amp aux battery charger from the genset)--that is ridicules.

    You are running a 100 watt battery charger on a 5,000 watt genset or 1/50th of the rated load capacity. That has got to be killing you fuel cost wise.

    You have some choices here--a 12 volt charger between 40 and 80 amps would be fine.

    Genset wise, you can run a 40 amp charger on a eu2000i (1,600 watt) genset if you are OK with rope pull start.

    Or a Honda eu3000i (2,800 watt) and a 70 amp or so 12 volt charger.

    There are several 45 amp 12 volt chargers here (should work OK on a eu2000i--but somebody here or at the store should confirm).

    And Iota has larger 12 volt chargers too (55, 75, 90 amp). The 90 amp is right on the ragged edge for the eu3000i (ask NAWS if 90 amp charger is OK or not for the eu3000i). Even the 75 amp is fine.

    Anyway--Regarding the genset--You really need to figure out what is exactly happening. If they are taking 12 volt from the 5,000 watt generator, you need to get the model number or 12 volt output rating (current/amps).

    At this point, if my guess and understanding of your setup is correct:
    I'm not sure if the battery charger is AC--I'll check tonight.. It is configured to where we have to manually plug up the generator (it is not electric) up for the battery charger to work. Charger has teeny wires (which you probably saw in the picture) hooked from battery bank to charger.
    The generator will be useless for charging your battery bank (way too small to properly charge your bank).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • techntrek
    techntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    He may not get to -20 F but at 20 F she still would be down over 20%. Doesn't explain everything but cutting capacity by 1/4 does explain a chunk of it.

    Edit: this is in reply to posts on page 4, sorry I didn't quote the original...
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • meghammock
    meghammock Solar Expert Posts: 43
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Hey! I hope your weekend(s) were great! Ours was nice and sunny--Had a full bank as of Saturday. Still haven't hooked back up to the inverter.. Wanted to let the batteries relax a little more considering the abuse they've taken. :)

    Yeah, pretty sure they're sealed batteries, so we didn't get the hydrometer. Tried to see if we could locally find a battery monitor but no such luck (just don't know where to look, I suppose!) I will take a look at the Trimetric though.. C'moooon, payday!

    Veeeeeery interresting about the generator and charger.. I just thought a battery charger was a battery charger! I'll take a better look at that tonight (didn't over weekend.. Last-minute birthday parties made weekend a bit more crunch-tacular than anticipated. hehe) along with the generator.. Great day, I didn't realize there was so much room for error with this stuff! Makes it all the more interesting, but frustrating when professionals aren't so professional........
  • meghammock
    meghammock Solar Expert Posts: 43
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Curious here.. Some folks have mentioned fuses--I haven't seen or been told about any.
    Where would/should they be?
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!
    meghammock wrote: »
    Curious here.. Some folks have mentioned fuses--I haven't seen or been told about any.
    Where would/should they be?

    I was worried about that!

    There ought to be one on the (+) line from the charge controller to the batteries capable of taking the max current of the line and another one on the (+) line from the batteries to the inverter capable of taking the max current of that line. Sorry that's rather generalized. The sizes are calculated roughly along these lines:

    2000 Watt inverter @ minimum 10.5 Volts (shutdown point) will draw 190 Amps. NEC calls for 1.25 times current: 237.5 Amps, so you'd use a 250 Amp fuse. You can also undersize the fuse if you know you won't be drawing peak current (or don't mind replacing fuses when you do). In this example you might use a 200 Amp fuse.

    The important thing is that the wire is sized so that it can handle more current than the fuse. The fuse (or circuit breaker - collectively "over current protection") must be the "weak link" in the circuit, so that if too much current is drawn it will blow and shut down the circuit before anything else heats up and starts a fire. They're really cheap insurance.
  • meghammock
    meghammock Solar Expert Posts: 43
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    My forehead must be read from all the times I've smacked it by now...
    Where/how do I put fuses in? Are there special little encasements we were supposed to get with our set for them?
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Let me introduce you to this wonderful place called Northern Arizona Wind and Sun (NAWS). :D

    Yes, the host of this forum. Where you can find about 99% of anything mentioned here. And no I don't work for them.

    So inverter fuses look like this: http://www.solar-electric.com/infubr.html
    Although you may also be able to find these or similar items locally, including some neat units from a marine/RV supply that bolt directly to the battery terminal made by Blue Sea Systems: http://bluesea.com/category/5/21

    The charge controller circuit will use somewhat lighter-duty fuses: http://www.solar-electric.com/stfubr1.html
    If you have a 12 Volt system you can even use automotive equipment here, providing its of the right rating.

    It is important that fuses/breakers be rated properly for Amps, Voltage and current type (AC or DC)!
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Like many things in life--Doing it yourself the first time can be both overwhelming and, unless you pay close attention (and pay for the correct hardware--and buy your mistakes;))--it might not be something you want to DIY.

    Simply, the batteries are the source in your system for, literally, 1,000's of amps of 12 volt current into a dead short. Much more current than is available from your 120 VAC wall outlet and, on the same magnitude of current available if you shorted your 120/240 VAC utility drop from the power pole (believe me, the few times I worked on a utility drop--I was sweating). It is scary stuff.

    Now that we got the warnings out of the way... Basically, any positive ware that leaves the battery box should have an appropriate fuse/breaker on it.

    The first column in this table is from the NEC and is pretty conservative (i.e., you can use larger fuses/breakers if needed; with lots of caveats) but is a great place to start.

    For the most part, wiring for 12 volt systems is a lot thicker (smaller wire gauge number, AWG--American Wire Gauge) because low voltage wires need a lot of copper cross section to carry the 12 volt energy any distance. So fusing is pretty easy if you use the smallest fuse recommended for a particular gauge wire.

    Wiring a Boat is very similar to wiring your RV... Here is a short boating thread from another forum that has some pictures and a book recommendation.
    IMHO Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual: How to Maintain, Repair, and Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems, by Nigel Calder is probably one of the best.

    Is there a boat yard in your area? To get the basics done (fuses, breakers, switches) may be worth the money to you--With the knowledge that somebody who knows what they are doing (always tough to figure out) has made your system much safer than it is today.

    Small wiring is pretty easy to cut a wire and insert a fuse. Large cables are much more difficult. You can get fuse holders/circuit breakers that will take cut ends on wiring... Or you can get copper wire terminals that "swag" onto the end of the cable (high pressure that crimps the copper connector to the wire and makes a hermetic seal--very good, hydraulic crimp tools for larger cables are scary expensive, there are tools that hit with a small sledge hammer for DIY projects too).

    Hammer Crimp Tool for Large Terminal Lugs $27.50
    wind-sun_2143_40909999 This simple, inexpensive crimping tool can be used to crimp connectors on # ... as easy as the professional production crimpers for large lugs, this crimper is also about $300 cheaper.
    Fuses are usually cheaper, breakers are great if you want an on/off switch (turning of the inverter, etc).

    Not trying to scare you away from the project--More trying to level set your expectations against your abilities at this point of time.

    Working around large lead acid batteries is dangerous--There is no off switch on the batteries and you have to always treat them with respect.

    My experience on DIY--The first time, buying the tools, books, extra parts cost about the same amount as paying a professional.

    The second time you do it, you save at least 1/2 the cost (in labor) with DIY.

    In any case, getting yourself educated will help you with the next "professional" that works on your system.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    If the installation company didn't put any fuses in this system, that pretty much says it all about them!

    Phil
  • meghammock
    meghammock Solar Expert Posts: 43
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Helloooo, everyone.. Sorry I've been sparse.. We had some pretty huge news break out at work and I haven't had time to get on here..
    Still pretty slammed today so I have to be quick, but again, I'll print new posts to take and read--Ya'll are the best:) I would share my birthday cake with you if I could...

    OK--SO.. I did what ya'll said to do and disconnected the inverter from the batteries. They charged Saturday, Sunday and Monday, didn't do anything other than charge and rest. Hooked the inverter back up to the battery but didn't turn anything on on Wednesday, actually turned stuff on to see what happened last night.
    Everything charged great--battery series got up to 13.52! Don't think they've read that high yet! ..but it still went down pretty quickly once we started using.. Here's what we read: Check the last measurement out.. I know some difference is to be expected.. But that much???
    b=battery, s=series
    Inverter hooked up, nothing turned on
    b1) 6.75
    b2) 6.73
    b3) 6.75
    b4) 6.73
    s1) 13.48
    s2) 13.47
    Turned inverter ONLY on
    b1) 6.66
    b2) 6.64
    b3) 6.68
    b4) 6.66
    s1) 13.24
    s2) 13.32
    Turned other loads on 6:38 pm
    b1) 6.22
    b2) 6.22
    b3) 6.37
    b4) 6.34
    s1) 12.36
    s2) 12.68
    8:28 pm
    b1) 6.06
    b2) 6.07
    b3) 6.22
    b4) 6.20
    s1) 12.13
    s2) 12.42
    9:03 pm
    b1) 5.96
    b2) 5.96
    b3) 6.17
    b4) 6.16
    s1) 11.93
    s2) 12.32

    The device I check with is a multi-meter; not a c-clamp type though.. Folks in the stores said what I have will do the same thing??
    Now, the way my batteries are hooked up, the load from the panels the load to the inverter are hooked up on the same series. Shouldn't they be balanced? Seems like one series is taking all the heat.. Happens to be the series that ended at 11.93 when we turned it off...

    YES, you're definitely right.. This is quite the daunting DIY project to take on--My brain is begging me to take a hiatus from this and learning rammed earth, doing everything at my job, and all this crazy stuff going on at work!! Poor brain. Have a cookie. I've been wanting to learn how to do this stuff from beginning to end , so that makes it a little less frustrating.. Hopefully I won't have to involve professionals any further--Hoping to get a license eventually and become a legit one myself (emphasis on the LEGIT part). We'll see how that goes.... For now, I will enjoy my birthday weekend and learn at a more relaxed pace. Hehe:)
  • meghammock
    meghammock Solar Expert Posts: 43
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    PhilS, NO KIDDING!! There's only one place (so far) where I think fuses may be, but I'm afraid to pull it out!!
    This is the wiring box above the controller:
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    the voltage variation is indicating there is an imbalance, but i am not sure of the charging parameters you have set in the controller and if the batteries reached the absorb stage or not. batteries can rise to 13.5v easily in the bulk stage, but need to reach around 14.4v or so depending on the battery charge specs to enter the absorb stage. after an hour or 2 in that stage it should enter the float stage and reduce the charge voltage to about 13.5v. if it is a case of just rising to about 13.5v in the bulk stage without rising further then the batteries are severely undercharged and would explain your dismay that there isn't much power available.

    also, when loading batteries down it is important to know in watts or even amps what that load is and being this is on an inverter the amps drawn at 125vac will be much smaller (by a factor of about 10x) the amps drawn at 12v to supply the same power because power in watts = volts x amps. the inverter will also add a bit more power loss in its operation so when you speak of loads you need to give us more information on the loads.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    They appear to have way too much excess wiring wrapped in the box--Extra cabling adds voltage drop to the system (losses). Is that is a circuit breaker at the top of the box (or single large fuse)?

    A Clamp On DC current meter will really help you (measure current in the two battery strings and figure out if they are sharing well or not)--especially not having a battery monitor to check your current. This Sears/Craftsman 400 amp DC clamp meter is probably about the best bang for the buck ($60 plus tax/shipping). It is the same as this meter (original manufacturer).

    Getting 13.5 volts -- Was that with the sun up or just around sunset?

    Normally, fully charged batteries are around 12.7 volts fully charged (resting for several hours), ~13.7 volts floating (fully charged, charger on and "floating" batteries), or somewhere between 12.x and ~14.2 volts (charger is charging but battery is less than 100% full). Your batteries will not reach 14.2 volts until they are at least 80-90% full and there is full sun on the solar panels (and the charger is still charging at bulk/absorb, and not holding the batteries at float).

    At least, you are seeing some charging going on--so you know the panels/charge controller are, at least, somewhat working correctly.

    You do appear to have some wiring connection issues... The s1) 11.93
    s2) 12.32 voltage difference is too great between the two strings and will need to be looked at eventually. One pair of batteries is carrying much more of your loads vs the others (almost 0.40 volts difference between the to string voltages). Placing a current clamp meter on each string will show you immediately how much difference in current there is.

    Here is the SmartGauge web page that describes how batteries should be wired in parallel for proper sharing of current.

    At this point, it is possible that the system is mostly working correctly, and you just do not have enough sun (and/or have more load) to support your needs with purely solar panel/sun charging (not unusual for winter). We will not know if your panels and solar charger are working correctly until you can measure the current flow (DC current clamp meter or Battery monitor).

    So, for winter, you probably should also focus on how your generator is charging your battery bank right now. More than likely (it sounds like--still guessing) they are using the 8 amps from the generator's DC output--And you need a 40-80 amp AC powered battery charger installed instead.

    In the end, this becomes a series of trade-offs (money, power usage, generator usage) to preserve your battery bank (prevent over/under charging, over discharging or setting at less than 75% state of charge for days/weeks at a time). Any/all of these conditions can take months to years of of the life of your battery bank.

    Now that you are measuring voltage and have a bit more knowledge, take a read of the Battery FAQ (again if not the first time) and look at how to keep them properly charged. It should make more sense to you now that you have been monitoring your bank voltages.

    Deep Cycle Battery FAQ
    www.batteryfaq.org

    Regarding your wiring--Somebody with some experience can probably clean it up a bit and double check your battery wiring pretty easily (it is easier to cut out extra cable than to make too short cables longer).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • dagelt
    dagelt Registered Users Posts: 24
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!
    meghammock wrote: »
    PhilS, NO KIDDING!! There's only one place (so far) where I think fuses may be, but I'm afraid to pull it out!!
    This is the wiring box above the controller:


    Hello meghammock,
    I am new at this stuff also but I have been following your thread to learn as much as I can also. I hope to add some information so all can help you.

    In the photo of the wiring box the handle looking thing is just a manual disconnect. It does not have a fuse it is just a bus bar link between the Solar positive and battery positive cable (one side of the box) and the Solar negative and battery negative cable (other side of the box)...... still no fuses for breakers :cry:.

    These guys are great and they will not mis-lead you!!!
  • meghammock
    meghammock Solar Expert Posts: 43
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    Woo! Fellow new folk! :)
    Well, dang.. Any ideas how to put fuses in then??
  • meghammock
    meghammock Solar Expert Posts: 43
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!

    PHEW.. MUCH simpler looking than I thought it'd be... I guess I just need to figure out the amperage now, eh?...
  • PhilS
    PhilS Solar Expert Posts: 370 ✭✭✭
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!
    meghammock wrote: »
    PhilS, NO KIDDING!! There's only one place (so far) where I think fuses may be, but I'm afraid to pull it out!!
    This is the wiring box above the controller:

    That looks like it may be a fuse (others here will KNOW) but only one fuse for your system is inadequate. Possibly dangerous.

    THAT, and your description of the wire size for charging from the generator sounding like you are only using the generator's 12V charging capability, really give me more concern about the aptitude of your installer.

    I think most of us here would agree that this'd be easier if you were closer and we could personally eyeball what you have. However with patience, a digital camera, and Wind-Sun's forum...

    ... we should get it eventually wired and operating properly.

    And HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

    Phil
  • dagelt
    dagelt Registered Users Posts: 24
    Re: Battery bank not holding charge--Please help!!
    PhilS wrote: »
    That looks like it may be a fuse (others here will KNOW) but only one fuse for your system is inadequate. Possibly dangerous.

    Phil

    Well only one way to find out, turn off all the power to the inverter, turn off the inverter, wait until the sun is down, pull the handle out and take another picture. Then we will all know....

    But it looks like a service disconnect for air conditioning units so the service tech does not need to enter the house and find the breaker, he just pull the handle so he know he is completely disconnected from A/C power.