IntelliFlo pool pumps

Jburgess
Jburgess Solar Expert Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
in Energy Use & Conservation #1
Has anyone used one these and do they provide the energy savings claimed? Their website's calculator claims it would save me 58% in electricity. It sounds to good to be true, so I thought I’d ask if anyone has experience with them.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #2
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    I don't have a pool and have never run a variable speed pump--but the engineering behind them is pretty sound.

    Here is a nice youtube video of a guy explaining how it all works--From what little I know, the demonstration looks sound to me...

    In the end, the VFD (variable frequency drive) Permanent Magnet motor itself is about 20% more efficient. The rest of the savings comes from running the pump at lower volume of water flow, which also reduces back pressure from the filter and piping.

    In this example, if you run a 80 GPM pump for ~6 hours per day, you can run this VFD pump at 20 GPM 24 hours per day and use a whole bunch less electricity (much of the savings because of reduced back pressure).

    From what has been said here before, most pools really have way larger pumps than they really need.

    With the VFD type pump--if you need higher water flow to back-flush the filter and/or vacuum the pool--you just program it to run faster at that time.

    Here is one thread where pools and IntelliFlo pumps were discussed.

    -Bill

    You could also go with a two speed pump or simply a pump 1/2 as large as you have now and probably be fine too (need to look at how long you run the pump vs flow rate vs pool turns per day).
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Solar Guppy
    Solar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭
    #3
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    They are very efficient pumps, the down side is they cost 4-5X more than a stock run of the mill pumps and have electronics that lightning can zap; you can buy a lot of electricity with the 1000.00 savings

    For half the cost, you can install a two speed pump, run on low most the time and when you need the higher volume ( typically cleaning or solar thermal collectors ) it runs at the high speed at the flick of a switch.

    Even less cost to to have a pump that meets your actual needs. Pool company's are horrible at matching to actual need, they just think bigger is better. every pools is different, but for an average home pool 1/2hp is plenty, most installer put 1-2hp in as its only a few dollar more in cost.

    Do the math and install yourself what you need, every pool dealer/installer I have talked to is literally clueless on what energy is.
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #4
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    You can get some of the same features and savings by using your own VFD and a normal 3 phase AC pump. With the VFD you can then choose how fast you want the pump to turn, anywhere between 1 and 60Hz (in some you can even go faster than 60Hz).
    The motor won't be as efficient as the PM motor in the intellipumps and you will have some additional losses in the VFD - but the setup will give you programmable speed control.
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  • blackswan555
    blackswan555 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭
    #5
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    I use a VFD on one site, It has a large pool with an infinity / cascade / full width waterfall over the end (4m ish wide) requiring a massive pump, The other 360 days of the year it just needs normal sanitation, I have installed the owner a remote switch, normal and party settings, normal is about 20 ish hz, uses 6a 230v/50hz, party is 60 hz ( a 20% overspend for the pump, cascade is better) 19a ish

    Have a good one
    Tim

    ps, If you are looking for pumping savings, have a look at the grundfos alpha 2 range,
    http://www.energyproject.com/ Off grid they are a necessity, Even on grid, they are a good investment,
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  • Jburgess
    Jburgess Solar Expert Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    #6
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    Thanks for all the responses.

    It appears a 2 speed pump would be a cost effective solution for me. My TOU plans gives me 17 hours off peak, so I can run at the low speed for longer and the high speed a couple of hours for the vacuum type cleaner. I currently have a 1 HP on my 30,000 gal pool with a DE filter. The local pool companies vary a lot in what they recommend for size of a pump, so I need to figure out the smallest that will work.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #7
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps
    Jburgess wrote: »
    Thanks for all the responses.

    It appears a 2 speed pump would be a cost effective solution for me. My TOU plans gives me 17 hours off peak, so I can run at the low speed for longer and the high speed a couple of hours for the vacuum type cleaner. I currently have a 1 HP on my 30,000 gal pool with a DE filter. The local pool companies vary a lot in what they recommend for size of a pump, so I need to figure out the smallest that will work.

    I got a quote for an installation, but have not acted yet, PM me if your interested.
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  • SolarLurker
    SolarLurker Solar Expert Posts: 122 ✭✭
    #8
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    I have had the inteliflow for about 6 weeks and I am happy with it. I like being able to program when the pump runs, also I like being able to set Flow at different rates. with my pool heater if the flow is to low than the heater will not turn on. So I can run low flow to filter and a faster rate to heat when needed.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    Yeppers, just put in an intelliflo and 72 sq ft diatomaceous earth filter about 2 weeks ago. Power usage is down to about 750 watts from 2500 watts for the old pump, pool has never look better, water crystal clear, considering shortening the 4 hour cycle to 3 or maybe even 2 hours a day. For sure will shorten it up this winter once the temps break below 85 or 90 F.

    Conservation Conservation Conservation :cool:
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  • Jburgess
    Jburgess Solar Expert Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    #10
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    The numbers are impressive.

    Did you go with the VS or VF model?

    My utility is supposed to have an incentive next year for energy efficient pumps.

    If I ever resolve my solar approval and they have a good enough incentive it will be on my list.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #11
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps
    Jburgess wrote: »
    The numbers are impressive.

    Did you go with the VS or VF model?

    My utility is supposed to have an incentive next year for energy efficient pumps.

    If I ever resolve my solar approval and they have a good enough incentive it will be on my list.

    I went with the VS model, more than adequate for the job.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #12
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps
    Jburgess wrote: »

    I currently have a 1 HP on my 30,000 gal pool with a DE filter. The local pool companies vary a lot in what they recommend for size of a pump, so I need to figure out the smallest that will work.

    As I understand it you want something like 4 turnovers of the pool contents per day for proper filtration and to get rid of the 'bugs'. I suppose this may go up for a high usage pool.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #13
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps
    russ wrote: »
    As I understand it you want something like 4 turnovers of the pool contents per day for proper filtration and to get rid of the 'bugs'. I suppose this may go up for a high usage pool.

    well it depends, in cooler weather about 1 or 2 turns will do it for sure. Chlorine usage goes way down and unless we have a lot of rain or wind that will keep them clean here in the desert. Ran mine that way for 10+ years with no issue.

    In summer when the temps are 100+ for extended number of days 3-4 turns is required, I think mostly for the stirring of the chlorine to keep algae from forming. What I notice algae starts at the edge interface between the pool wall and the water, I suspect that is where the chlorine gets most depleted from evaporation and surface tension without the stirring. On these pumps you can run at ultra-low flow for extended periods to help that situation with minimal watts.

    I am going to try a couple of different scenarios next summer and watch it closely.

    BTW mine is about 22,000 gallons.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #14
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    We are completing a pool and buying equipment so this is of interest to me!

    Something I got from the CDC web site:

    http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/publications/books/housing/cha14.htm#Content_Turnover_Rate

    Content Turnover Rate
    The number of times a pool’s contents can be filtered though its filtration equipment in a 24-hour period is the turnover rate of the pool. Because the filtered water is diluted with the nonfiltered water
    of the pool, the turbidity continually decreases. Once the pool water has reached equilibrium with the sources of contamination, a 6-hour turnover rate will result in 98% clarification if the pool is properly designed. A typical-use pool should have a pump and filtration system capable of pumping the entire contents of the pool though the filters every 6 hours. To determine compliance with this 6-hour turnover standard, the following formula is used:
    Turnover rate = pool volume (gallons)/flow rate x 60 (minutes in hour)
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps
    russ wrote: »
    We are completing a pool and buying equipment so this is of interest to me!

    Something I got from the CDC web site:

    http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/publications/books/housing/cha14.htm#Content_Turnover_Rate

    Content Turnover Rate
    The number of times a pool’s contents can be filtered though its filtration equipment in a 24-hour period is the turnover rate of the pool. Because the filtered water is diluted with the nonfiltered water
    of the pool, the turbidity continually decreases. Once the pool water has reached equilibrium with the sources of contamination, a 6-hour turnover rate will result in 98% clarification if the pool is properly designed. A typical-use pool should have a pump and filtration system capable of pumping the entire contents of the pool though the filters every 6 hours. To determine compliance with this 6-hour turnover standard, the following formula is used:
    Turnover rate = pool volume (gallons)/flow rate x 60 (minutes in hour)

    Well I would say that depends, on how bad the conditions are mostly. Here in AZ the conditions are usually pretty good, your mileage may vary.
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #16
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    As I understand it - the 4 turnovers give a 98% exposure of the pool contents to sanitization chemicals, UV or whatever - less than 3 turnovers do not reach that point and more than 98% is not considered as necessary.
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  • Jburgess
    Jburgess Solar Expert Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    #17
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps
    solar_dave wrote: »
    I went with the VS model, more than adequate for the job.

    Still trying to get a handle on the VS and VF thing. Do you run a higher speed for your cleaner, then a lower speed for the rest of filter cycle or just a speed fast enough for your cleaner all the time?

    Did you use a normal timer or something special with the VS?
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps
    Jburgess wrote: »
    Still trying to get a handle on the VS and VF thing. Do you run a higher speed for your cleaner, then a lower speed for the rest of filter cycle or just a speed fast enough for your cleaner all the time?

    Did you use a normal timer or something special with the VS?

    I have not had time to mess with it much, the building is taking all my time and my tore up knee as well (doctors, xray, specialist, soon MRI). It is currently set to single speed, but the fancy controller wiring is there and may add that to do multiple cycles.

    Currently single speed over 4 hours fast enough to drive the in floor cleaning. Still the watt consumption is much less.
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  • Jburgess
    Jburgess Solar Expert Posts: 130 ✭✭✭
    #19
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    Hope your knee is getting better.

    Could you elaborate on the fancy controller wiring? What kind or picture would help. The ones that I seen are quite pricey, exceeding the cost difference between the VS and the VF.
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  • solar_dave
    solar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,397 ✭✭✭✭
    #20
    Re: IntelliFlo pool pumps

    There is a programmable external controller setup that does a bunch of fancy cycle stuff, not dug further, doc has knee on hold and the building still eating most of my spare non-work hours, so much to do. And Work is making huge demands in prep for the Christmas season.
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