Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

54d1854d18 Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
I've been searching for solar panels, and pricing in Canada,
and have found an outfit in Quebec.

Has anyone heard of "Energie Vair"
They list themselves as the manufacturers,
I am concerned that they may be cheap
"Off the boat" imports from China.

www.energievair.com

Does anyone have any insight?

Comments

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,872 admin
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    This thread talks about shipping costs and issues (between US and Canada, and in Canada) in among the other issues (Greyhound Bus shipping, etc.).

    Also, here are some other US/Canadian border suggestions.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    A quick look at the site leave me less than impressed. Much of the hardware is either no name at all, or brand X type hardware, (Including the dreaded BZ controller line!)

    The clincher however was the "Moon panel" that supposedly gives significant solar output even by moon light!.

    http://energievair.com/en/online-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx_mod1.tpl&product_id=167&category_id=1

    Personally, I would steer clear.

    Tony
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    hey bb, i believe that was a company that i had to ban somebody for posting links to recently.
    a moon panel? gee how does that work? i can speculate as one would be in an about face position to the panel, stooped over with drawers down, and light some momentary leakage of methane.:blush: might be good for .00001ma for a split second if at close range to the panel.:p hope the panel is fireproof.;):D
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    Hello,

    I have never tried the Moon Solar Panels, but I have bought some products from them a couple months ago. My experience was pretty great, I have nothing bad to say.

    What I ordered was some 160w solar panels without knowing the brand (i didn't really care). But since they arrived late, They sent me some 180w KYOCERA solar panels instead of the 160w I ordered. I think they are a pretty good compagny we can trust. I will buy again from them!
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???
    Hello,

    I have never tried the Moon Solar Panels, but I have bought some products from them a couple months ago. My experience was pretty great, I have nothing bad to say.

    What I ordered was some 160w solar panels without knowing the brand (i didn't really care). But since they arrived late, EnergieVair sent me some 180w KYOCERA solar panels instead of the 160w I ordered. I think EnergieVair is a pretty good compagny we can trust. I will buy again from them!

    This sounds pretty fishy to me. Substituting one product for another (without contact from the company I presume) even if the product is perceived to be better is not a good idea. What would be the result for you if you now had an array that was too big for your inverter or controller, or if the physical size and shape of the Pv didn't fit your design? Are you now stuck with panels that you can't use nor return? Or you are on the hook to pay return shipping?

    I would like a bit more info on these guys before I did much business with them.
  • dwhdwh Solar Expert Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    I think the Admiral is fishy.

    First post, with links...

    Google keeps up with this forum quite well. I think if someone from the company in question were to search Google for their company name (and in this Googly world where people get paid to be "SEO" specialists that's a given) then they might very well find this thread in the first few links on the search page.

    The temptation to do a bit of "sock puppeting" might be overwhelming.

    Rather than making me more likely to trust that company, the Admiral's post, for me at least, has exactly the opposite effect.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,872 admin
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    I respect people's email addresses/privacy... So I don't post private data from the forum registration info...

    Let us jsut say that Mr. Buckley and the company in the original link seem to have not just a vendor/customer relationship....

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • 54d1854d18 Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    When something seems to good to be true, it usually is...

    I thought it seemed a bit fishy, glad to hear input
    from other users...thanks guys!!
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 7,307 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???
    icarus wrote: »
    The clincher however was the "Moon panel" that supposedly gives significant solar output even by moon light!.
    http://energievair.com/en/online-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx_mod1.tpl&product_id=167&category_id=1


    When I was at my site a month ago, and the moon was full, sky clear, I walked to the power shed, woke up the control panel and discovered my 3KW array was producing 0 watts. I guess I need some ET-UFO gas to wake them up at night.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    One of my neighbors bought his new panels from some place called "RenewCanada.com" (Look it up; I'm not going to go posting links to questionable sites). I've never used them, and frankly their web site looks a tad "unprofessional" as well as a certain inconsistency with product line. Competition for NAWS? Debatable. But I've never been satisfied with any of the Canadian suppliers I've used, mainly due to the excessive taxation up here which forces retailers to charge more just to cover their 50% tax bill.

    Oh yes; I am in a particularly bad and cynical mood tonight, so appropriate caveats apply. 8)
  • 54d1854d18 Solar Expert Posts: 63 ✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    I've checked in on Renew Canada,
    and have a friend that dealt there,
    he had very good things to say about
    the service. The pricing seems better than
    most other Canadian distributors I've checked,
    but not as good as the Energie Vair pricing,
    which is why I started asking questions,
    and it would appear that I now know what
    I sort of knew before...

    I will be dealing with Renew Canada...
  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    mike90045, CAUTION-This below is an example of fraud. Niel

    If your solar panels aren't low Infrarated Moon Solar Panels, it is normal that they do not generate electricity with moon light. They need alot of lighting to start generating power. On the other hand, moon solar panels will still generate 5% to 15% of power with moon light. Please ahve a look to the following picture:

    Moon.JPG

    Also, I have visited both of the renewable energy supplier's websites :

    I think the EnergieVair's website is very well done. They also have RSS confidentiality certificate to protect buyer's informations, so we can buy directly from their website. It is true that renewcanada offers more different components : transfer switch, breakers, relays, etc., but EnergieVair offers alot more models of Solar Panels (25w to 280w) and Wind Turbines (vertical axis and horizontal axis).

    Both of the web sites have pros and cons, but I would like to know what exactly do you like or dislike about both of these websites?

    Thanks.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    Nota male. (L.)
    :roll:
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 7,307 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???
    If your solar panels aren't low Infrarated Moon Solar Panels, it is normal that they do not generate electricity with moon light. They need alot of lighting to start generating power. On the other hand, moon solar panels will still generate 5% to 15% of power with moon light. Please ahve a look to the following picture:

    I want to see the picture of a 24 hour production graph, with sunset dropoff, and then moonrise output, till moonset, and sunrise again. Otherwise, it's vaporware.
    I'm wanting to use generated watts, not look at colors of quantum energy levels.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    If your solar panels aren't low Infrarated Moon Solar Panels, it is normal that they do not generate electricity with moon light. They need alot of lighting to start generating power. On the other hand, moon solar panels will still generate 5% to 15% of power with moon light.

    Complete and utter BS, in a clear full moon, the irradiance is only ~ 1/100,000 th of solar noon output.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux

    1 lux = Full moon overhead at tropical latitudes
    32,000–130,000 lux Direct sunlight

    Take your vaporware / spam elsewhere
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,872 admin
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    Well, to quote myself from another thread on Moonlight powered panels (the thread was starlight power--edit for moonlight):

    Well, just to put a cap on the moonlight myth...

    Solar panels do not develop enough voltage under starlight to even begin supplying any real power (self discharge or what--don't know the physics). You might get some voltage under moonlight--but very little useful current.

    Anyway, assuming that they "worked" under moonlight--some numbers:
    • sunlight on an average day ranges from 32 000 to 100 000 lux
    • TV studios are lit at about 1 000 lux [i.e. 1000 lumens
    per square metre]
    • a bright office has about 400 lux of illumination
    • At sunset and sunrise, ambient outdoor light is also about
    400 lux (if the sky is clear).
    • moonlight represents about 1 lux
    • starlight measures a mere 0.00005 lux
    Since solar panel power output is proportional to the energy hitting the surface... Then for a 10 kWatt array in sunlight vs moonlight:

    10,000 watts (peak) * 1 lux (moon) / 100,000 lux (sun) = 0.1 watts

    One Tenth of a watt for a 10 kWatt array under a full moon (maybe only 4 hours a day a few days a month):
    • 0.1 watt full moon * 4 hours per night * 4 days a month near full moon * 12 months per year = 19.2 watt*hours per year from moonlight
    Yea--that will power my microwave. No way:
    On the other hand, moon solar panels will still generate 5% to 15% of power with moon light.
    In the end, the moon is 1/100,000 the brightness of the sun--at best, a solar panel would output only 1/100,000th its full sun output.

    Even if the amorphous silicon part of the panel adds a few percentage points of output over a crystalline panel--can you tell us how the panels can output more energy than there is in the entire spectrum of moon light?

    For us here--we spend much of our time trying to educate people (ourselves & other posters) and to understand when claims appear to be questionable. When a website has claims that are difficult to backup with science and math--then we have issues with the website too.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    admiralbuckley,
    you do know that the only reason you are still here is because you were exposed as the con artist that you are and you are trying to commit fraud on many would be buyers of solar. it is people like you that prey upon others to make a quick buck and give solar a bad name in the meantime.
    of course you do know if you continue your course of disinformation that you will be banned and for the record we can do it now for what you have already posted.
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 7,307 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    By all means - keep admiralbuckley, I'm waiting for the power output chart. That's where the rubber meets the road.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • System2System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    Look, i'm not a professional in new Solar Panel technologies, I'm just a simple customer. I'm not saying these panels work, I didn't tried them. I have some standar kyocera solar panels that generate like 0.01amps under full moon light and mppt controller.

    So as I can see, you think these new moon solar panels wouldn't work?
    If everything goes well, I will purchase and test one of these in the following months and will keep you informed of these tests.

    Thanks.
  • Solar GuppySolar Guppy Solar Expert Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???
    I have some standar kyocera solar panels that generate like 0.01amps under full moon light and mppt controller.
    Thanks.

    I am not aware of any Mppt controller that operates at 10 milliamps ... what is the brand and model?
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    Aside from the BS factor, who cares? Lets assume for the moment that the moon is "near full" for say 5 days per month. Given improper panel orientation (because the moon varies is orbit relative to the panels over the course of the year!) possible weather issues, (clouds/fog etc) even if the hype were true the total net harvest from "moon light" would be close enough to zero to be a rounding error in the math!

    Your .01 amps, (or 1/100 of an amp) into 12 volts translates into ~ .12 watts! So four hours of full moon would give a whopping .48 watt hours! Enough to power the led on the charge controller for the night! Personally, I will get my sleep rather than staying up all night to log the PV in put from the moon light.

    Just for the record, In full moonlight, reflected off the water or off the snow, I have never, even at -40c, seen the charge controller wake up, with 400 watts of panel.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,872 admin
    Re: Best Solar Pricing in Canada???

    The panels may work fine in sunlight (like any solar panel). In moonlight--like any solar panel they are unable to produce any worthwhile energy--not because they are bad panels (or not)--but because of physics and math.

    Does EnergieVair host email addresses for their customers?

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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