Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation

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Horus
Horus Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭
in Solar Skeptics, Hype, & Scams Corner #1
A Spanish trade group called on authorities to investigate possible fraud among solar-power generators after a news report said that some were getting paid for producing power at night.

To me it sounds like more oversight is required in a business where one set of energy is worth X amount, but another set of energy, clean energy, sells for much more. There is room for fraud there. i don't know what could be done but I'm sure someone has an idea or two. Anyone?

http://envirogy.wordpress.com/2010/04/14/spanish-solar-panel-trade-group-calls-for-fraud-investigation/
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,443 admin
    #2
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation

    The sad fact is that Spain has already found that for every 1 "solar job" created, they lose something like 2.2 jobs in the private sector.
    Subsidizing renewable energy in the U.S. may destroy two jobs for every one created if Spain’s experience with windmills and solar farms is any guide.

    For every new position that depends on energy price supports, at least 2.2 jobs in other industries will disappear, according to a study from King Juan Carlos University in Madrid.

    Government handing out money just because they can is ripe for fraud anywhere. And it will kill us.

    In our neighborhood, the local concrete contractor is busy placing wheel chair ramps on all corners of our residential area... Guess what, we have "soft curbs" (or whatever they call them when the entire street is a driveway ramp type "curb".... The only real curbs we have are the 10' at the corners... Not hard to get around.

    Also, the only wheel chair traveler I see where we live is a guy with an electric wheel chair that drives down the road at nearly 20 MPH--in traffic with cars...

    What a waste of money our government (and the people) don't have... :cry::grr

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Solar Experience
    Solar Experience Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭
    #3
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation

    After the 2008 boom in solar production in Spain (placing about 40% of the world's installations that year), and the placing of caps in 2009, solar installations in Spain have a fair amount of controversy attached. Solar subsidies in that country are much higher than those for rival energy sources such as wind power

    Government generally isn't very efficient, and some parties have estimated that each job created in the Spanish green industry came at a cost of about $750,000. .

    The accusations of fraud make sense in context of those numbers.

    There's always going to be people who will pad the numbers, seems that its easier to get away with it on a massive scale when its a government contract than it is when dealing with a private party. Seems like a corporation has has more incentives to monitor the contract's completion and overall bottom line.

    Job loss due to technology can't be the only consideration, as longer term benefits may take time to emerge.

    Ned Lud, leader of the Luddites became famous for smashing weaving machines as they removed jobs from people who had been making textiles the hard way. In the long run, its pretty clear that the benefits of automation (at least from a jobs creation standpoint) outweigh the benefits of doing redundant work.

    The type of work that is needed changes with the advent of new technologies, often at the expense of displacing people in obsoleted areas. There are some reasonable arguments for a society to jumpstart new technologies at times. Investment in a tech industry can speed up development curves, increase companies research budgets and work to alleviate international resource dependancies. Spain is not in an optimal position for oil/coal/gas production and procurement, for them, alternative energy funding makes good sense in terms of long range impacts.

    What the investigation is focusing on in many ways is similar to what happened with Enron and its billing methods, except one was a private sector issue and the other was in the public sector. I'm not sure there are any easy answers to handling issues of corruption when large quantities of capital are at stake.
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  • blackswan555
    blackswan555 Solar Expert Posts: 246 ✭✭
    #4
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation
    The power grid received 4,500 megawatt-hours of power from midnight to 7 a.m. in the months audited, El Mundo said.
    PMSL, Yea we do have bright moons , but that`s a bit much:roll: But we were getting 44c a unit feed in,
    Have a good one
    Tim
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,443 admin
    #5
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation

    Here is the entire 53 page report on Spain's Green Energy program (PDF Download) in English.

    Just one estimate of job killing:
    Table 11.- Destroyed employment per renewable installed megawatt in
    Spain 2000-2008
    • Wind 4.27
    • Mini-hydro 5.05
    • Solar 12.7
    Average 5.06

    Read at least the first 1/2 dozen pages... There are 24. bullet points that really make the whole government directed Green Job / Industry look like a national suicide pack.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #6
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation

    [i am not sure what a Spanish university has to do with Tea Party, Birthers, etc.--Please feel free to post your facts that highlight the errors/omissions/etc. in the report... -Bill B. Moderator]
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  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    #7
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation

    Didn't expect to be fully edited out by the moderator. I guess you're not really interested in discussion unless it reflects your opinion. Read the report. It's a right wing rant against President Obamas adimistration. My guess is you already know that.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,443 admin
    #8
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation

    Pick an element from the report and discuss how they are wrong. Always willing to learn.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • solarvic
    solarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation
    danken wrote: »
    Didn't expect to be fully edited out by the moderator. I guess you're not really interested in discussion unless it reflects your opinion. Read the report. It's a right wing rant against President Obamas adimistration. My guess is you already know that.
    This is getting too political. I have heard all I ever want to hear about Obama and his left wing policy.:grr I think this string needs closed. There are 2 sides to every story and if I want to hear about politics I will watch FOX NEWS. :grr S:Dlarvic:grr
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  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    #10
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation

    danken,
    i have been observing this thread and if you read the rules this is a non political forum. now we are willing to bend a bit if you can show the proof of your statements as it pertains to solar or renewables in general. if you fail to do so and continue your path on politics this will be actionable. you are not required to continue in this thread or to answer anything on politics as you are welcome to drop this and constructively add to the forum in its many other facets.
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  • stephendv
    stephendv Solar Expert Posts: 1,571 ✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation

    Here is a debunking of the Calzada study:
    http://greeneconomypost.com/debunk-spanish-study-green-jobs-1582.htm

    Including a response from the Spanish Government that calls into questions his data and methodology:

    http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/paltman/media/Rodriguez%20letter.pdf
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  • russ
    russ Solar Expert Posts: 593 ✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Spanish Solar-Panel Trade Group Calls for Fraud Investigation

    How many jobs were created İ don't have any idea but the whole scheme was riddled with fraud and that has been documented.

    The article notes that Spain uses a FİT of 60 cents US while the US uses the PCT route at 2 cents US. That seem incorrect.
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