Starting small (newbie in the house)

prontow

This is more of an experiment first, then hope to grow larger. Starting off with a couple of home made 18v 60w panels, charge controller (to be purchased later), and a deep cycle battery. Going to use a 300w cheap inverter to run some lights.
The panel will have an aluminum frame, 1/4" tempered glass and seal the cells to the glass with Sylgard 184. I am just wanting to see what sort of output I can get. I don't expect to run anythig big but I am doing this to get my feet wet with solar. This will be a long drawn out project that I will use to educate myself and maybe just maybe convert to a grid tie system once it is large enough and I feel comfortable with it.
I guess this is more of a warning to everyone that I will be asking some pretty dumb questions. So bear with the new guy!
Thanks!

mikeo

Re: Starting small (newbie in the house)

maybe just maybe convert to a grid tie system once it is large enough and I feel comfortable with it.

Rolling your own panels for a learning experience is one thing, but by code you can never use those panels for grid tie. You will need UL approved panels anywhere in the US. These panels can be had at the moment for around $2.40 a watt for prime panels, and $2.20 a watt for UL approved seconds. You will need to buy a charge controller, fuses or breakers as well as battery bank to run your inverter.

prontow

Re: Starting small (newbie in the house)

$2.20 a watt for prebuilt panels? I will have almost that much in my home made panels after buying the glass, sealer, and individual cells.
Maybe I need a new game plan after my experiment.

waynefromnscanada

Re: Starting small (newbie in the house)

prontow wrote: »

$2.20 a watt for prebuilt panels? I will have almost that much in my home made panels after buying the glass, sealer, and individual cells.
Maybe I need a new game plan after my experiment.

Now you're heading in the right direction! And the prebuilts should output of about 26 volts with no load. The 18 volt panels are often sold as being "self regulated", because their output voltage is so low they are unlikely to ever overcharge a battery. On the other hand, they often won't fully charge the batteries either.

BB.

Re: Starting small (newbie in the house)

It is very difficult to build PV solar panels that will last more than a few months in the sun before they fail from moisture and/or flexing (from sun/heat/cold/wind).

Even well known vendors have problems too--The factor panels sometimes fail 5 years out and you hope the vendor is still in business and honoring the warranty claims.

It sounds like you are building yours on glass--Nice move. Many folks build them from plastic+wood--A real fire hazard. But for even yours--I would mount them over gravel/concrete/metal to ensure that nothing is set on fire if something goes wrong.

-Bill

waynefromnscanada

Re: Starting small (newbie in the house)

OH, and regarding : "Going to use a 300w cheap inverter to run some lights."
Believe it or not, I've seen some cheap 300 watt inverters that won't even run TWO 23 watt CFLs at the same time. Was at a buddy's camp. He had two different models, they both did the same thing. Forget trying to run his little TV at the same time. I gave him a little 150 watt inverter I no longer used. It too was cheap, but would run his several CFLs PLUS his TV all at once with no problem. As they used to say, Go Figure. By the way, the 300 watt units in question would run a 1/4 inch B&D drill, even though not two CFLs. Not all 300 watt inverters are equal that's for sure. Not kidding, my Morningstar SureSine 300 Watt inverters, compared to the cheapies, are like jet fighters compared to a motorcycle with a blown engine. Totally night and day, totally and completely different, top quality compared to garbage. Didn't realize how different they could be until I got the SureSine, which right now is running this computer, the TV, inside and outside lights, recharging my cordless drill, AND powering my oil-fired hot water "boiler" furnace, all at the same time! NOT KIDDING! Sure the lights dim a bit for a second or two while the Riello burner comes up to speed, but so what, this is a 300 watt inverter we're talking about, and it's been handling the job for 3 years now. Do that with a cheapie. For one thing, the cheapie would be modified square wave, which could very well destroy the Riello's electronics, and smoke the cordless drill charger.
Not telling you what to do, just giving you some food for thought. Sometimes it's cheaper in the long run to go with quality in the beginning. I didn't, but I learned, and am still learning. Always will be.
Best of luck in whatever direction you go

prontow

Re: Starting small (newbie in the house)

I will do a lot more planning before I make any big purchases, looks like I owe you guys a Christmas card for all of the time and money you have saved me!!
I will be buying pre built approved panels, ones I will feel safe installing on my house. Now looking at the 185w 26v panels.
Again I will be starting small and making small calculated additions to my system. My house begs for solar, the back faces due south and I have no shade trees. Living in Tennessee the tax credit is not good but I think it will be a good investment installing solar.
Still lots of research but this is the fun part and finding a site like this where everyone is giving good and valuable advice is great!
Thanks!!

zeuspaul

Re: Starting small (newbie in the house)

Living in Tennessee the tax credit is not good

There is a federal tax credit of 30 percent.

Zeuspaul

prontow

Re: Starting small (newbie in the house)

Update: Got my 60W panel built with 1/4" tempered glass and aluminum frame. Sealed the cells to the glass with Sylguard 184, not perfect but OK for my first panel.
A 10A charge controller between my panel and deep cycle marine battery which I already had. Running a 400W inverter from the battery with my Christmas tree plugged into it. Tree is pulling 198W (1.65A@120V) and running say around 4hrs in the evening. Thats 990 watt hours, right? I know my 60 watt panel won't keep up and my battery will get to the low voltage cut off of my inverter in a couple of days. But at least I can say for now my tree is "Off Grid!"
Just got my feet wet.

Cariboocoot

Re: Starting small (newbie in the house)

prontow wrote: »

Tree is pulling 198W (1.65A@120V) and running say around 4hrs in the evening. Thats 990 watt hours, right?

4 hours * 198 Watts = 792 Watt hours.
Even in a best-case scenario a 60 Watt panel won't stay ahead of this.

Go buy some LED Christmas lights! I just measured 2 strings of 50 outdoor lights: 3 Watts. You could have 3,300 LED's for the same power!

EDIT: Okay I measured the whole tree. 210 LED's plus a star with 11 "mini lights" on the top (I had to count all those lights!). 19* Watts on the meter. My whole tree uses 1/10th what yours does. There's probably a pretty quick pay-back on that.

* 11 Watts of that is the star! I gotta get me an LED tree topper!

BB.

Re: Starting small (newbie in the house)

And when you let the inverter "cut out"--You will probably have to purchase a new battery too in the next few days/weeks when the battery kicks to bucket from being taken to dead (if cutout voltage ~10.5 volts).

Lead acid batteries just don't like being taken below ~20% state of charge ever... And to be cycled frequently below 50% state of charge.

-Bill