Mitsubishi mini-split 26 SEER

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Comments

  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭
    Odd, I didn't have to do anything to see it.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • animattanimatt Solar Expert Posts: 281 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2015 #33
    A trick to not join.  Download the webpage, save as a .html file and reopen in your browser.

    Worked for me.

    I specifically used webget app on my tablet.

  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 215 ✭✭✭
    The link requires you to join to see it. The last time I did that I got a virus.
    Anyone not getting the idea that a mini-split is not going to heat well as the temperature declines deeply or cool well when it is 130F really should have a secondary source of conditioning a room like many offgrid folks do.
    Same goes for the Geothermal crowd. I am seeing ground loop temps as low as  25 degrees in January here in NY. The COP can't be much above 1.5-2 at that temperature. The air source HP actually can achieve higher daily COP's during the day if the temperature rises to above freezing during the day. The Geo systems can only operate at the current ground loop temps which keep getting lower the more the system runs. I feel that the total seasonal COP can be much higher with the air source HP than the geothermal at 1/4 of the installation cost. Just my opinion!
  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭
    The link requires you to join to see it. The last time I did that I got a virus.
    Anyone not getting the idea that a mini-split is not going to heat well as the temperature declines deeply or cool well when it is 130F really should have a secondary source of conditioning a room like many offgrid folks do.


    I was able to re-create the login prompt you mentioned, but like animatt said, there are ways around it.

    As for the content, what you said isn't what the study discusses.  In fact they confirmed the models they tested did "heat well" even at their coldest rating (0 F for one of the models, colder for the others).

    The biggest take-away is to use the auto mode and not low mode.  I know many of you that use them off-grid stay on low all the time, and that doesn't appear to be the best way to do it for overall conservation (if your system can handle higher spikes).

    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭
    LucMan said:
    I feel that the total seasonal COP can be much higher with the air source HP than the geothermal at 1/4 of the installation cost. Just my opinion!
    I think you are right, even with the higher ratings of the latest ground-sourced pumps.  The air-sourced mini-splits are right behind and cost a fraction as much to install.  No messing with antifreeze either.

    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2015 #37
    The biggest take-away is to use the auto mode and not low mode.  I know many of you that use them off-grid stay on low all the time, and that doesn't appear to be the best way to do it for overall conservation (if your system can handle higher spikes).
     You really have no idea what I or my clients do so why say that.  Some people offgrid use them on the low differential setting because they do not have enough solar to run a split in the automatic mode. They are just starting out and it is a way for them to cool their home on a solar system that is growing over time. 

    Offgrid power is not really about conservation as in the grid world. It is more about using loads when the sun can power them and not be on battery when clouds are about during the day. You might say it is about conserving a full battery for as long as possible. The heating aspect of a mini-split is just a wonderful use of solar during daytime and I have been doing that for 8 years. 
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,768 admin
    One of your posts went in the spam folder--Pulled it back up and marked your account so it should not happen again.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Bill !  My laptop was trying to conserve but I ignored it and it did not like it.  Hope you are well and ready for a decent winter storm heading our way. Saluti - per - tuti !
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭
    Not sure why you were offended, Dave.  Yes, I have read more than one post here over the years from various people talking about always using low mode.  And yes I know some systems can't handle the higher load, which is why I said "if your system can handle higher spikes".
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭
    Who is offended? not me? No matter how big the system is they all get small when the sun does not shine. The old saying that all ships on the ocean get small in a storm. 
    The thing I am working on is automating the differential setting based on other parameters to use the power up to the point of not discharging the battery. The ultimate discretionary load.  Alot more difficult than I thought.

    The people who use the low differential setting have to.  Using automatic would not help them at all so I am still missing your point. Not a problem, just missing it.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭
    Even those on a utility connection might easily conclude that since low uses the least amount of energy that the best way to save energy is to leave it on low.  The CARB study found people in their study in this situation.  But it turns out they aren't as efficient on low as they are on auto - you end up burning more amps for the BTUs you get out of it unless you let it ramp up once in a while.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭
    I  agree that auto is best for using least power, and went thru this with the Sanyo engineers when I beta tested their unit for offgrid or similar. They did not know alot of the things that I showed them. Too bad they sold to panasonic and did not continue.

     Offgrid, smaller systems can't just set the room temp or auto as you say. The split system will go to full power and they will not do the other things they need to do. They are tied to being home to monitor and slowly raise the differential as the day goes on and
    as the room gets to where they want.  They do not care about efficiency as much a staying inside their available power window.

    Even big solar systems have this problem when clouds are about. Having a controller that would take this into account and change the differential temp (programmed to actual) could help a large system stay within its power window and not use the battery.

     It really is not about total amps consumed offgrid but about staying in the window and not discharging the battery no matter if you have 1 KW of solar or 6 KW tracked.  

    I have tried the brute force solenoid method that Rich used in the old mini-split thread but it is not a good way to leverage the benefits of a split. It sounds like a simple project but there is alot more to it, as there almost always is.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 215 ✭✭✭
    Back in the late 70's there was a local electrical contractor that was leasing Power management systems. I wired relays in to some rooftop units for him. The relays were  spst with a power line communication. The controller was setup to limit max power consumption that the customer programmed in, and since the HVAC equipement was 3 phase they also would limit instantaneous demand by staging loads on incrementally to keep the demand down.
    Once the max power setting was reached the equipement loads would start turning off according to priority, for a preset time supposedly so that the customer would not realize any temperature rise in the conditioned area. These systems worked pretty well once the controllers were programmed properly.
    The contractor was paid a percentage of the electrical power savings generated.
    I'm sure a load management controller such as the above could easily be implemented for off grid systems. I run into some old ones occasionally on some jobs that are just turned off.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭
    easily?  Being that all the mini-splits will not interface with a common 4 wire thermostat easy is not the right word.  The real goal here for grid-tie battery based as well as offgrid is to use the solar to heat and cool and then meter the space conditioning so as to not use the charged battery bank. My battery based grid folks want sun powered space conditioning without the grid usage.

    It is easy to just turn on/off equipment with relays and solenoids based on float voltage. I really want to be able to meter the differential of the split based on battery voltage. Setting the split to 0 degrees differential (low power use) when the battery starts dropping and bringing it up again if the clouds go away (set it to 4 degrees) up to the programmed room temp.

    You just need the simple program, the interface of the split to the program, and the interface of the DC voltage to the program. It does sound easy I admit.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 215 ✭✭✭
    I agree that there is no easy way to interface  directly with the control circuit on any of the newer inverter mini splits. The  simple option available would be to open one leg of the power wiring, the unit would be powered off. When the line would be reenergized the compressor would ramp up again but most likely past the point where it was turned off because the space temp has risen, possibly drawing from the battery bank depending on how long the unit was cycled off. The systems do restart after a power loss.

    Take a look at Daikin mini splits, they have a wifi thermostat available that communicates with the power company to limit power consumption in case of extreme utility demand. Also can be accessed by the the customer remotely.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2015 #47
    There are 2 different universal adapters I have been using for the nest and similar 4 wire smart thermostats. All the major split companies have wi/fi adpters for current models.  My biggest problem is getting the voltage data out of an XW or Outback and either with modbus, HTML or ?, writing a simple program.  I have had 2 different software guy's start to help me and just wig out.  I may have to learn some code. Schneider engineers are receptive, but I think they just do not get how cool this would be to regulate space conditioning on some variable.
       It is just a regulator!  
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭
    You'll probably want to control and program it with Arduino or Raspberry Pi.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭
    Maybe,  I would rather it be built-in to the combox.  A partner is using Pasqual language for a simple pc program. Then he will decide how to go forward.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016 #50

     I just noticed today that the Mitsubishi line now has a smaller 6000 BTU unit with a 31.1 SEER.  Amazing how far this has come in just a few years.  I was amazed when they hit 26 SEER.

    This unit would be perfect for replacing a whole-house unit with mini-splits in a highly-divided house or level (multiple bedrooms and bathrooms on an upper level, for instance), where the 9000 BTU unit would be overkill.  The 9000 BTU unit would be better for an open floor plan like a kitchen/eating/family room combo.

    https://www.acwholesalers.com/Mitsubishi-Air-Conditioners/MZ-FH06NA-MZ-FH06NA-6000-BTU-31-SEER-Ductless-Mini-Split-Heat-Pump/81281.ac?catId=cat1028&mainCat=&subCat=&trail=1004:Mitsubishi

    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2016 #51
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭
    Look at Fujitsu also!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • techntrektechntrek Solar Expert Posts: 1,366 ✭✭✭
    Looks like they have a 33 SEER model @9000 BTU.
    4.5 kw APC UPS powered by a Prius, 12 kw Generac, Honda EU3000is
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016 #54
    Since 2015 BTW not new for them. Look at the amps :)
    The 6K Mitsu is amazing to me in that I keep hoping (and telling them) to build a high end window or wall unit and do something revolutionary. It would not be hard and not that much bigger. I think a common window unit is still very low SEER these days. I do not think they have changed since  2007 when I replaced it with a Sanyo.
    My old unit was so loud you could shoot a handgun and not hear it over the AC unit.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

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