improving efficiency of your existing car?

been meaning to ask this for a while:

my new used car has a very cool feature as found in the prius: a realtime gas milage readout that is very cool as it helps me fine tune my driving habits as i drive. shift from 4th to 5th and whoa!, im getting 50mph instead of 30. :-((for example on a flat road)

knowing nothing about cars, what can i do (or have someone else do) to improve my milage other than driving habits, and proper tire pressure?
heres a couple specific ?'s,

Ive hear that new spark plugs can improve milage, worth putting new ones into a car with 50k miles? (i dont know if it needs new or not though)

my wifes a sportscar owner and is looking at air intake kits which are touted as "possibly" improving milage with perfomance. thoughts or experience?

anything else that might be worth looking into (i really dont know much about cars)?

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Comments

  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    matt,
    i used to change my spark plugs every 20,000 miles, but that was on much older cars. todays cars are different in that plugs seem to be good for a long time. i have found that general stuff allows for the best mileage. changing the oil and filter every 3,000 miles i have seen keep milage more on par as it ages. air filters do go bad or get clogged and a car has to breath. if the filter is visibly dirty change it. as to the plugs you can ask a mechanic some time to make sure all plugs are gapped and firing properly and look good in general. the wires are good for them to check as well at that time. most cars also have a gas filter too, but they usually go bad with higher mileage than yours, unless the gasoline you get is more contaminated than is generally out there. most of these things don't improve mileage so much as preserve it.
    as far as that air intake thing goes i have heard of it, but i don't know if it works or not. if she would document how the car is now and after the installation of the tornado (as i believe it's called and assuming you buy it) let us know of the results.
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    I have a 3/4 ton pickup that I use to haul building materials to my cabin site 300 miles away.

    I keep it tuned and inflate the tires to the maximum pressure and try to drive under 60mph.

    These help a little. But the thing that makes the most difference is where I buy the gasoline.

    The 20 gallons I buy in rural northern California on my south bound trip takes me 30 miles farther than the 20 gallons I buy in the metropolitan area for my north bound trip.

    This difference showed up after California started ordering refiners to reformulate the gasoline to cut pollution in urban areas.

    A traveling musician friend of mine gets better gas mileage in Oregon than in California.
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    I would go ahead and change the plugs, just because you don’t know what is in there or how long and plugs are pretty cheap, even the good ones.

    Using synthetic oil reduces the internal friction in the engine and also helps it last longer and you can extend oil change intervals using synthetic, thus consuming less oil and fuel over the life of the car . For example in our van I was running regular dino oil and always had the oil checked the test results came back with the oil wearing out about 4000 miles. I switched to synthetic and the oil results cam back at a change interval of 12,000 and my mileage went up about 7% over all.

    I also run my tires above what the car has recommended on the door jam, about 10% lower then the sidewall max on the tire. For example if they are rated for 44psi max I put them at 40 and the car suggests 32. It makes for a bit stiffer and tighter ride, (which I prefer) but at least another 5% increase in mileage. Also if you have to replace the tires make sure to get low rolling resistance tires, like Michilen Energy’s or some similar tire. They cost more but again can save you 5% on fuel and that will more then pay for the additional cost of the tire over it’s life.

    While I agree keeping the air filter clean is important unless your really stepping on it even a pretty dirty air filter can pass enough air, same situation with an air intake, it only helps when you are WOT (wide open throttle). Typically cruising at 60 your lucky if your using 10% of the cars HP, so unless your air filter is blocked 90% it won't help for cruising, but then again in stop and go people tend to step on it to get going and you want a clean air filter for that. A clogged fuel filter may actually save you money because it essentially limits the fuel that can get in to the engine, but obviously reduces overall power as well. In some case a really plugged filter can lower mileage.
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    there is a drawback to putting your tire's air pressure that much higher than recommended. this sets up uneven wear so the inner tread will wear out first and this does effect the control you'll have on the vehicle in addition to the rougher ride. i could see going to 35psi, but not 40psi on tires that recommend 32psi.
    as to the oil that is significant information brock. i guess with most oils giving out at 4000 miles that the cheaper oils could go at 3000 miles so my intervals seem correct. i wasn't aware the synthetic increased the change interval that long, but i knew it upped engine efficiency and thusly could up the mileage. in the crunch of the 70s i used to throw a bit of synthetic into a standard mix, but doing so still meant i had to change the oil at the standard intervals because the standard oil doesn't last. i really don't know what that actually did for me as 1 quart of the 5 was synthetic. the reason i didn't go all synthetic was because i didn't want to spent $25 on oil when 5 quarts of regular oil could've been bought for under $4.
    i would caution that for cars under 6000 miles this is an engine breakin period and there will be more shavings and such during this period. regular oil should be used at this time and changed at least every 3000 miles. some may say this period is to 10000 miles. you can be the judge on that as it couldn't hurt extending that breakin period.
    also if a car developes an oil leak i don't think you'll want the synthetic leaking all over the place as this oil does cost a bit more, but again it's you call on that.
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    Niel that is a good point you don't want to over inflate the tires as to cauyse uneven wear. I wasn't going to get in to it in my last note, but if you do up the PSI you should somehow check the foot print. You can do this by rolling over a spry painted piece of paper and then seeing how the next turn re-applies the wet paint back to another piece of paper. A better way is to use a laser thermometer and check the tire temp after a 10 mile or so run. It should be pretty consistent all the way across. Actually I have found I have to get up to about 44 PSI on mine to make it even, but it is to stiff for my liking.

    Also just using the numbers off the vehicle isn't really the best idea, unless your running stock tires. If you ever replace them they no longer match what was labeled for. For instance you can get a Jetta Wagon with continental a max pressure of 36 PSI, or the Michelin energy with 44psi or newer energy S8 with a max pressure of 52. So if you run the energy S8's at 32 you are way bellow what the tire is rated to be running at and will heat up the sides quickly and get quite uneven wear, not to mention is it dangerous. So just going by the vehicles rated numbers are not always the best bet.

    Also many new cars do come with synthetic oil from the get go now. If it does I would continue to use it, but if not I would go at least one oil change with the conventional oil.

    I forgot to mention the single biggest way to increase you mileage, slow down. Honestly 5 mph can make more of a difference then just about anything else you could do. I know, I know I will hear people say that slowing down isn't an option or even unsafe. I am not recommending going dangerously slow, just not leading the pack.

    For the record my lifetime of the wagon at 45,848 is 53.37 mpg
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    thats awesome news on the synthetic, i knew it could go lots of miles between changes but milage improvement too is awesome.
    the 12000 miles is that avergae? i knew it was a lot. i think i recall that once you switch you cant go back is that true? im thnking this sounds awesome, i hate waiting for car service so 12000 miles is worth a premium, but knowing theres a significant performance and efficiency benefits its a n brainer. anything else to consider making the switch on the synthetic?

    interesting thing about varying fuel efficiencies from gas, must be different levels of quality clearly. i have to put premium in this car , that seems to do better.

    brock your wagon has a meter or youve kept track? the meter in mine shows disapointing numbers, hence my question. though it is cool to see the mpg cruise up over 200 (the meters ax) with the clutch in going downhill heheheh) once im up for my oil change im thinking plugs and synthetic.
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    most major population areas are switching over to the summer methynol blend or whatever they call it. mileage isn't as good with it, but i guess it helps with pollution levels and this was the reason going to california(pure gasoline) was better than leaving california(blended and bought in california). :-o
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    If it were me I would switch to synthetic for 5K then have the sample tested and see how the oil is doing. I don't think you would have a problem switching back and forth, but when you do a change you never get it all out so it will likely take 2 changes to get most of the old oil out. I use
    http://store.avlube.com/oilandfuanki.html
    for testing my oil but there are a bunch of others as well.

    The mileage I track is from how many gallons I put in vs. miles driven over the life of the car. I am the only one who has ever filled it, kind of scary, but my wife refuses to, even on her van. I did get a trip computer
    http://www.scangauge.com/ (works on any OBD2 vehicle)
    last summer and it has helped me know what is good and bad, almost fun to see how high I can get a trip to or from work. It has certainly helped me, or at least made it really obvious when I was doing something that was sucking fuel ;)

    The other advantage of this car is it’s 16 gallon tank so I can go 3 weeks without filling or typically 800 miles on a tank (to 1/8 tank). I just did a record tank (for me) at 915 miles, although it was pretty darn empty when I filled it. Others have gotten over 1000 miles on a single tank.
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    this is the tdi?

    i have heard deisel has better mileage too is that the case?
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    Yup, it is a TDI 1.9L 92 HP. It's small but diesel has plenty of torque, diesel engines typically have twice the torque of a gasoline engine. So to match the torque in a gasoline you would need about a 180 HP engine, not to big, but drives about the same as a 180 HP gasser engine. Honestly I could go with a smaller engine and a larger car. Say a Passat size with the 1.6L 80 HP in it. They are quite common in Europe but here in the US everything need a larger engine, go figure...
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?
    ...go figure...

    Cars are a substantially different culture over in Europe. Gas costs the equivalent of $5 per gallon and up (diesel is less), and (in Germany, for example,) there's a tax on engine displacement greater than 1.5 Liters. My Dad was a junior diplomat (local tax-exempt) in Austria in the 60's, and I remember him telling me he couldn't have afforded the displacement tax on our 1956 Pontiac (316 cid V8 ??-- 5.2 L).

    Also, public transportation is a viable alternative due to higher general population density and government subsidies. I grew up in Austria, (then) Yugoslavia and Greece, where I used public transportation to go virtually everywhere. A student ticket (good for up to 5 transfers!) for buses and trolleys in Vienna, Austria cost 2 cents (not a typo) in the mid-60's. I didn't get a driver's license until I was 18...

    Regards,
    Jim / crewzer

  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    I understand the economics of why they have smaller cars and engines, but I don't understand why we here in the US think we need 300+ HP engines to drive across town in a sedan or station wagon? I am not in any way knocking trucks or sports cars; they have big engines for a reason, but family sedans? Again I am not knocking it; I just don't understand why we can't get a larger vehicle with a smaller engine. It's not speed, a 1.5L VW in Europe can go 115 mph on the autobahn and I have yet to see anyone keep up with me on an onramp with my “tiny” 90 HP engine, so it can’t be 0-60 times?

    To each their own, I guess.
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • crewzer
    crewzer Registered Users, Solar Expert Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?
    but I don't understand why we here in the US think we need 300+ HP engines to drive across town in a sedan or station wagon?

    Because we need and/or deserve it, according to what Madison Avenue would have us believe. 

    :wink:  :evil:
    Jim / crewzer
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    this is an interesting point, i think americans see our success or wealth as a buyers privilege, "i earned it, i can spend it on a large vehicle (or some other wasteful thing)". the message, that we're dealing with finite resources and its EVERYONES responsibility regardless of financial status, is just not clear in the publics mind. however i am seeing conservation messages more and more in the media. i also just today heard trhe newsgirl talking about such and such condition happening that will send gas prices back down. i think that is the bottom line for most people, whats the cost?
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    and some good news: my issue of wired magazine came in today with the feATURE ARTICLE being how technology can combat global warming. i havent read anything yet, but i must mention this is the same magazine that printed an article stating we should drive more so that oil becomes more scarce so that it will drive innovation. :roll:
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    53 mpg? Wow! I don't even get that kind of milage from my motorcycle! I've been very cautious myself trying to reduce fuel consumption on all levels. Yes I do drive a 4x4 f150 but I do alot of haulin' and I do what I can with it to get my milage in the upper 20's. The hard tonneau cover helps tons, and walking when possible is not only healthy but can reduce my gas use by 20%. I replaced my gas furnace with a new 96% efficient unit, keep the thermostat set at 65, and replaced all my bulbs with cf's. Gas in Jersey is about to shoot passed $3/gallon and hopefully sooner than later the auto manufacturers will keep improving on their hybrids. I wonder why they don't have a built in solar panel molded into the roof structure to help charge the bats? I agree we as Americans waste more than we use. There are too many soccer moms driving Hummers and Escalades who are too afraid to even drive them in the snow. Large equals stature. I read in the paper today that some experts predict that it would take a $75-$100 price for a barrel of oil to send us into another recession. Imagine where we could be if we spent the $ we do on excess on conservation and alternative energy sources. A complete reversal. But all of us here know this, and sadly that is far too little. Why does it take a crisis for us to suddenly start to care?
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    Shawn the main reason they don't add solar to the roof of a vehicle is cost. As we know the roof of a vehicle is not at the ideal tilt angle and is not always in a clear sunny spot. So you are better off putting that same $ in to a fixed solar array and grid tying it and using the grid off peak to charge the vehicle. Darell a friend of mine happens to do just this and actually creates more power then his house and car can consume in a year. Check out his web site
    http://darelldd.com/ev/
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    welp, got new synthetic and plugs today, toio early to tell but anxious to see how it goes. the guy at the dealer also was a synthtic user and ensured me that he alsoi has seen improvement in gas mileage. now the big question is how long do i leave it in, is the best way to get one of those test kits youre talking about brock, and is that an involved process?
    the dealships saying 3-4000 miles youre sayoing ten, one guy said technically forever. oh brother. i think ill go see what the receipt says maybe it has a manufacturer listed and i can find out.
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    great matt. did you keep track of your mileage before? i know that regular oil actually breaks down chemically and i'm not sure synthetic does. even if the synthetic doesn't breakdown the particles, gums, and varnishes do contaminate the synthetic making the oil change mandatory, although at a longer time interval. the dealerships are refering to standard oil as it only lasts 3000-4000 miles before chemically breaking down. for your next oil change go around 4000 miles as this will get rid of the remnants of the previous oil. from that point on, up the mileage for the change. how far is a very good question and it may be one for the oil manufacturer.
    ps we are talking of the oil filters being changed as well and not just the oil.
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    Matt I get my test kits from
    http://store.avlube.com/oilandfuanki.html
    You could just get the regular test oil kit (I use the TBN version (diesel)). I get 4 or so at a time to save on shipping to me. Then you just fill the bottle and send it off to be tested. I opted for a PDF / email results but I believe you also get a paper copy if you want. Also once you test a car if you test it again they add the previous results, which lets you know how your doing and they will let you know if you should change sooner or if everything is fine.

    My dad actually sent in a sample to make sure it was synthetic, it wasn't and took the results back to the oil change place and got a full refund.
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    Oh and yes as Niel noted regular oil tends to break down where synthetic holds up a LOT longer. The real problem is the wear metals that mix in and bind with the oil reducing its lubricating properties. The oil can only "hold" so much gunk before it can’t do its job which is why you typically need to change a synthetic oil. The big push in synthetic is hold to hold the stuff and still be able to do its job. I heard Mobil just came out with a 15k oil.

    Each engine is different and will wear at different rates causing you to have to change the oil more or less frequently. So maybe I can go 10k safely, but the same oil in a 1986 Pontiac might only last 5k.

    And yes, I would strongly recommend changing the oil filter ever time you change the oil, if for no other reason why leave 1/2 to 1 quart of dirty oil in there. Also with synthetic oils they depend more on the filter to catch as much of the gunk as they can so a clean filter is a good thing.
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    so for the kits how else would i get the oil out, i muist haveta buy the thief thing they have listed there to suck some out? i dont wanna get under the car . though since its older and no warranty maybe its worth the test/parts cost. i expect to keep it for 20-40k miles.

    what the receipt says i have is this:
    http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-30.aspx

    the extended performance (15k miles!!)
    http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance_15W-50.aspx

    i found a thing on the mobile site saying that they recommend a 2-3k change after your first switch to it with older cars as it can dislodge particulates or somesuch. this ensures everything running smooth.

    i am disapointed its mobile, they are the ones with the horrendous environmental record. anybody else make as good synthetics? i could buy my own. though if they have the best performance/efficiency i think i would strill choose to go with that product even if they are evil in other respects

  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    pennzoil i believe still makes a synthetic, but i don't know if it's available in your area or not. if they say to do the initial change sooner i have to assume they know what they are talking about so go by their recommendations. mobil 1 is about the oldest synthetic commercially available. arco used to have one with graphite and i don't think it's available any more. i didn't like that one as it looked dirty all of the time.
    i do see they say up to 15k miles or 1 yr whichever comes first. if you only put 2000 miles on it per year they want you to change the oil. i've heard elsewhere that no matter what you use that it should be twice per year, once before winter and once before summer. who knows, but it should do better for you.
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    I have a pela 6000 http://www.pelaproducts.com/ oil changer unit, but still usually drain the old fasion way, from under the car and just catch a sample as it is draining.
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    i didn't know there was an new fashioned way until now. i learned something today. :roll: getting underneath and doing it the old way is far better due to the majority of metal particles and sludge that the filter doesn't hold will stay at the bottom of the pan.
  • Brock
    Brock Solar Expert Posts: 639 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    Depending on the shape of the oil sump sometimes a top sider oil remover can get more out or in the case of some engines you can't physically get to the plug, on a boat for instance. On our diesel once you pull the oil filter off you can drop in the sucker and get about a cup out of that small sump at the base of the filter.

    I like the idea of getting under the car to check for anything else that might be wrong as well.
    3kw solar PV, 4 LiFePO4 100a, xw 6048, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Tesla 3, Leaf, Volt, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    thats funny, me, i dont like the idea of being under a car. go figure :mrgreen: :roll:
  • niel
    niel Solar Expert Posts: 10,300 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    as long as it's properly supported i don't mind bing under a car. i don't want to be the middle of a metal and concrete sandwich. now i haven't tried since my recent medical thingy, but knowing me i would still try. i don't mind the dirt and grease either as long as i can get it off at the end of the day. :lol:
  • Frank
    Frank Solar Expert Posts: 54 ✭✭✭
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    I would make sure the spark plugs, air & fuel filters are clean. Whatever the owner's manual recommends for regular dino oil change intervals, I would guess you could double it pretty easily using synthetic. I don't think there's a car made today that recommends less than 5K changes with regular oil. One of the new Porsche models (can't remember if it's Boxster or Cayenne) call for the first service (oil & filter) at 20K miles!

    The biggest mileage bang-for-the-buck is your own right foot. Leaving 5 minutes earlier for appointments will allow you to slow down and arrive more relaxed while achieving better mileage at the same time. If you're going to be stopped at a long light or something it's sometimes worth shutting off the engine (I've read that anything longer than one minute makes it worthwhile). Having instantaneous mileage feedback is great and will help you fine-tune your driving.
  • System2
    System2 Posts: 6,290 admin
    Re: improving efficiency of your existing car?

    this cars mileage pretty much sucks i am disapointed. i am noticing people do NOT like to drive as slow as me surprisingly. :wink::|