Newbie to Tackle Monster. Needs lots of Help!

System

I'm building a new home soon and plan to have solar and wind generated power incorporated from the start. I should probably go with a grid tied system since I have grown quite accustomed to refrigerated air conditioning. I would like to possibly build the solar panels myself but feedback seems to dictate that factory UL approved panels be used for this??? I want a battery backup system that is charged from the panels and only have Utility provided power come online as necessary and not be used to charge the battery bank. Is this possible? Texas does not mandate net metering and I do not think any utility companies offer it for my area so the system will be hard to justify if the utility rates remain low. That is one reason for my desire to build the panels myself. I would like to supplement solar power with wind and was thinking about installing a windstream 3.7 but I've found considerable negative feedback on this Forum. Please advise on other brands!! My next question has to do with sizing. I've found watt calculators but with new construction I have some flexibility of design. It's 1600 square ft 1st floor and on second floor one bedroom and one loft open to lower floor. I'm installing hydronic radiant floor heating embedded into slab. This will be feed by a propane fired tankless water heater which will be feed by a self built batch style solar water heater. I will have one HVAC unit mainly for air conditioning and heater backup. Gas cooking stove, oven, dryer and HVAC. ??12v,24v, 36, 48?? More later. Thank you in advance!

BB.

Re: Newbie to Tackle Monster. Needs lots of Help!

Probably conservation should be your first three or so goals.

It is almost always cheaper to conserve than to generate your own power... And with a pure off-grid system, that becomes even more so (your costs over 20 years can average $1-$2 per kWHr).

IT is possible that the Xantrex/Schneider XW Hybrid inverter system (GT and Off-Grid modes)--may be able to limit power to the utility to near zero current fed back through the meter--You would need to talk with somebody at Schneider who knows a lot more than me--and you will still need building permits and possibly utility approval anyway even if not net metering... You certainly would be on the leading edge.

Home Power Magazine and probably lots of other publications out there can help you with designing for your needs.

-Bill

icarus

Re: Newbie to Tackle Monster. Needs lots of Help!

If you are serious about this,, do all the home work you can, and as Bill suggests, design every component of the house for maximum efficiency. Read relevant back issues of Home Power Magazine. Avoid the biggest pitfall, that of Ready, Fire, Aim. And finally, don't build your own PV! With the price of Pv as low as it has ever been and reliability as high as it has ever been take the safe, reliable way.

Tony

System2

Re: Newbie to Tackle Monster. Needs lots of Help!

Thanks Icarus and BB. I've read some on the thin film solar panels that "stick" to metal roofing between the ribs. They look very neat and the wiring is all covered by the roof cap. Does anyone have feedback on these? I've read where the efficiency is lower for these panels and more sq ft is necessary but this does not necessarily equate with higher capital costs.
I'll use True Protect insulation on top of the roof decking with "tin" colored metal roofing on 1x4 stripping so a vapor barrier will exist between the metal roof and True Protect insulation. I'll spray foam insulation between the trusses under the roof decking and the attic will be sealed. (attic is sealed in current home and works very well)
I've been reading as much as I can about lighting, does anyone know of some good sources for designing power efficient lighting systems? I know about phantom loads and plan to incorporate wall switches so Phantom loads can be turned off when not in use.
Log walls with a covered porch surrounding the house will work better to help keep the house cool in the summer which seems more desirable than worrowing about solar gain in the winter in this part of the world.
Skystream states that power from their 3.7 wind generator supplies power directly to the home with utility power making up the difference. Is it possible to do an install where power is supplied to the home in this order?: 1)Wind generator 2)Solar Panels 3)Battery 4) Grid

icarus

Re: Newbie to Tackle Monster. Needs lots of Help!

FYI, You will find few fans of small scale wind on this forum. There are lots of folks with some pretty extensive real world experience that has not panned out well. The biggest issue with small scale (residential) wind is that if there is enough wind to be truly useful, there is usually too much, such that the hardware suffers short life span.

Remember, small scale wind is full of moving parts that live in a rough environment, and are hard to access to repair. (On top of a tower for example!). Few people get anywhere near the advertised output of commercially available small wind plants.

Most experts (here and elsewhere) suggest that renewable energy should come in this general order. 1 Conservation, 2 more conservation, 3 still more conservation (including ground source heat pump with hot water recovery, 4 passive solar space heat, 5 solar water heat, 6 active solar space heat, 7 PV solar, and then and then only if one is in a proper wind environment should one "invest" in small scale wind.

I suggest that you spend some time reading through the wind threads on this forum.

Tony

BB.

Re: Newbie to Tackle Monster. Needs lots of Help!

Regarding any sort of bonded/roofing material... I would tend to avoid it right now. I am not sure you can expect 20-40+ years of life that you can expect from traditional crystalline solar panels. Also, I would suggest that you look into how those roof/panels are repaired/replaced--if needed.

If you want to look at these other types of panels (and yes, typically thin film panels require about 2x the square footage because they are less efficient than crystalline solar cells)--Do a pricing on $$$/watt--There is no reason to pay more unless you are after some sort of architectural/aesthetic look to your home.

For other suggestions on solar power (such as solar thermal projects and such)--take a look through this thread--It is not organized yet, but full of links to basic solar power, and alternatives (like solar hot water) and may give you some more ideas.

Regarding wind--I would wait until you have addressed all of the other issues/possibilities first like Tony said. Until you even know what type of power system you want to install (grid tied, off grid, or hybrid)--You really do not have a workable plan yet.

If you want to involve batteries (basically a partial/whole home UPS)--Take a look at the Xantrex/Schneider XW Hybrid Inverter... It is about as "universal" as they get regarding your needs.

In general, if you have grid power for your home (not 10 miles away and $500,000 to run the line)--your best best is going to be something that incorporates the grid power into your home system. And let the batteries "float" until there is need for emergency power (storm, end of the world, etc.).

Having Grid power to the curb and running a pure off-grid system will almost always be wasteful of money and resources. Cycling batteries have a fairly limited life (you will pay significant amounts of money for battery replacement). And, frankly, if your off-grid hardware (inverter, chargers) lasts 10-15 years--you are doing pretty good. You need to plan on replacement and modernizing your local power system every 1-2 decades...

It all adds up.

-Bill

BB.

Re: Newbie to Tackle Monster. Needs lots of Help!

I forgot to add about lighting...

CFL's and Florescent lighting are probably your best bet for efficient area illumination.

LED lighting--I would, at best, just use it for spot/reading lights. And, before I buy $1,000 of fixtures and LED lamps--I would get one of each type you are looking at and plug them in and let them run. Get / build a light meter and measure the output every few months. In general, I don't think LED's last near as long as the numbers on the box claim. I would guess that the majority of the "cheap" LED's lose over 1/2 their output in less than a 1,000 hours of use.

For task lighting, I would still look at Halogen. The light is "white" and the bulbs last fairly well. And they are dimmable (if needed).

I like fixtures that use standard screw base bulbs, you can install a wide variety of lamps (filament, halogen, CFL, LED, spot, flood, etc.) and you can upgrade when better hardware becomes available.

Obviously, CFL's don't like base up / sealed fixtures--and probably LED don't really either--so you are left with open/ugly fixtures...

Anyway, you don't want a lighting system designed by an engineer--you will run screaming from your home gouging your eyes out. :roll:;)

-Bill

VanDeusen

Re: Newbie to Tackle Monster. Needs lots of Help!

just thought I would mention that I have 2 400 watt sunforce generators and to me they suck. everytime I see them spinning I throw a amp meter to it and it ready nothing. I have heard of alot of similiar situations so I wouldnt recommend sunforce wind generators.