(2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

YostFMX

I've got 2 205w panels, 2 Homemade wind gen. (160w @ 900RPM) & C60 charge controller. Only other solar system I have is a 45 H.F. kit. That was easy, but not so much with this one.

In the C60 book they show you how to wire for wind power "Diversion Control Mode". I think I got how that all works but the question is how do I figure out what size "dump" load to use/made. They say you can use AC hot water heater elements? sounds sketchy... I really don't care how I hook it up as long as I can do it the cheapest way/ with out buying PVGFP's or anything.

I'm going to use it for off grid, thinking 4, 12v deep-cycle's and running most a lot or 12v DC some 110v AC (refrig.)

All the help I can get would be great! I don't know maybe I should run it in "PV Charge Control Mode"?

dwh

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

I don't know jack about wind power or how to properly hook it up.

Having said that however, I have done some reading on the subject. The hot water heater element for a dump load needs to be sitting in water. There are plenty of other types of dump load rigs. Here are a few:

http://www.qsl.net/g6uyj/dumpload.html

http://www.mdpub.com/Wind_Turbine/index.html

http://www.windgenerator.org.uk/html/dump_load.html

http://www.homepower.com/basics/wind/


Hope this helps.

Cariboocoot

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

YostFMX wrote: »

I've got 2 205w panels, 2 Homemade wind gen. (160w @ 900RPM) & C60 charge controller. Only other solar system I have is a 45 H.F. kit. That was easy, but not so much with this one.

In the C60 book they show you how to wire for wind power "Diversion Control Mode". I think I got how that all works but the question is how do I figure out what size "dump" load to use/made. They say you can use AC hot water heater elements? sounds sketchy... I really don't care how I hook it up as long as I can do it the cheapest way/ with out buying PVGFP's or anything.

I'm going to use it for off grid, thinking 4, 12v deep-cycle's and running most a lot or 12v DC some 110v AC (refrig.)

All the help I can get would be great! I don't know maybe I should run it in "PV Charge Control Mode"?

HF kit: suitable as land fill.

Now to be serious. "some 110V AC (refrige)" - Refrigerators have fairly hefty power requirements due to the need to start an AC induction motor against the extra resistance of a compressor. I run one off-grid, and whereas the running current is low (less than 240 Watts typically - it varies quite a bit with conditions) the initial surge will overwhelm a 1 kW inverter. They also 'prefer' pure sine; on MSW the motor starts slower and rattles - a sure indication of a shortening life.

"thinking 4, 12V deep-cycles" - this is vague. A battery could be 20 Amp/hrs or 200 Amp/hrs, you see. And you must have enough charge capacity for the batteries. Your 205 Watt panels should be able to handle about 300 Amp/hrs of battery without difficulty (this is not and exact calculation). That's 150 'usable' Amp/hrs maximum, or about 1.8 kW hours per day: not bad for a small system (your actual results will vary depending on a number of factors including location).

I would suggest you start out determining what you want to do with this power: i.e. what are your loads? From that determine what inverter you'll need and what sort of battery bank is required to supply it.

As for the turbines; how's the wind around there? Steady 20 mph day and night every day? Usually wind power is only good for a bit of 'supplemental' charging. Obviously you want to feed your homemade turbines into the CC to log some data about their production, right? You are correct that turbines need diversion loads, so that they don't 'freewheel into oblivion' once the batteries are charged. My personal opinion (and everyone is free to disagree) is that MPPT controllers aren't good with turbines and that you shouldn't attach both PV's and Wind to the same controller.

I'd say you need to get a handle on your over-all goals, and see what sort of charge controllers & diversion load will work best for you in that plan.

YostFMX

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

This is a hell of a lot harder then I thought!

Ok 4, 12v 115 amp hour batteries, 2 Sun Electronics 205 watt panels, and as for the wind gen I hooked a drill to it at 900 RPM with a multi meter. I'm hopping to run a Magic Chef 4.4 cu. ft. refrig off it. It says it 120 watts on the back. You don't think it will start up with a 400 watt inverter? So I got the frig., lights for a 600 sq. ft. house, 7' 12v LCD TV (runs off my HF panel), Playstion One, my laptop and thats about it...

What is MPPT controllers?

Oh and what I have just been reading on here it sounds like I should just go with the "PV Charge Control Mode". That will work with the wind gens right? It will just let it "freewheel", its this correct? I'm making them for free so I'm not out anything...

If I go with the "PV Charge Control Mode" can I just leave out the PVGFP they say to wire in?

BB.

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

YostFMX wrote: »

This is a hell of a lot harder then I thought!

An;d it is hard to answer your posts... You pack a lot of questions into a small space.

Ok 4, 12v 115 amp hour batteries, 2 Sun Electronics 205 watt panels,

Lets assume 12 volt inverter/charge controller. The useful power from the battery bank will typically be a maximum of 50% discharge--if you cycle below 50%, the life of the batteries will tend to be quite short (by the way, recharge them quickly >75% state of charge. Leaving them below ~75% state of charge will accelerate sulfate hardening of the batteries).

4 x 115 AH * 12 volts * 50% = 2,760 Watt*Hours of available battery power.

Assuming you are somewhere around Los Angeles CA, you will get around 4.5-6.5 hours of sun per day (depending on season and weather). Lets guess an average of 5 hours of "full sun". The typical off-grid solar system is around 52% efficient (battery, inverter, charge controller, good inverter, etc.):

2x 205 Watts of panels * 5 hours per day sun * 50% = 1,025 Watt*Hours of 120 VAC per day

Recommend charge rate for battery bank is ~5% to 13% of the C/20 AH capacity of the battery bank:

4x115AH * 15 volts charging * 5% = 345 Watts of solar panels minimum (you are good)

So--you know how much power your battery bank can supply and that it will take almost 3 days to recharge it if you run it down to 50% capacity.

Your average daily load should be less than 1,025 Watt*Hours (you need to recharge the battery bank from the solar panels--you cannot keep taking out more power than the panels can supply without killing the battery bank).

Now, an average "small" fridge will use around 320 kWhrs per year (or a bit less). Or:

320 kWhrs per year / 365 days per year = 0.877 kWhrs per day or 877 Watt*Hours per day

The power left to run your other stuff:

1,025 WH per day from solar panels - 877 WH per day Fridge = 148 WH per day left...

So, for a first guess--the system will barely (on average) run your your small fridge and not much else. Of course, the sun energy is variable--during he winter you will get less sun. And you can have strings of days of cloudy weather which would require an alternative power source (generator, AC Mains, etc.).

Most people underestimate the power they use, and over estimate the amount of power a solar system will generate. A Kill-A-Watt meter is a great place to start measuring your 120 VAC Watt*Hours / kWH per day. There are Watt*Hour meters for DC loads too.

and as for the wind gen I hooked a drill to it at 900 RPM with a multi meter. I'm hopping to run a Magic Chef 4.4 cu. ft. refrig off it. It says it 120 watts on the back. You don't think it will start up with a 400 watt inverter? So I got the frig., lights for a 600 sq. ft. house, 7' 12v LCD TV (runs off my HF panel), Playstion One, my laptop and thats about it...

A drill can drive a small wind turbine alternator for testing but does not represent very well the rest of the system (blades, height of tower, turbulence from buildings/trees, wind patterns for location, etc.).

Until you characterize your wind turbine setup (measure their performance over days and months to come)--I would not count on them delivering much energy unless you live in a very windy location.

What is MPPT controllers?

MPPT Controller typically is a Maximum Power Point Tracking Solar Charge controller used to maximize energy collected from solar panels. See these links for details:

All About Charge Controllers
Read this page about power tracking controllers

There are other types of MPPT controllers--such as for Wind Turbines and DC powered water pumps/motors--but we can ignore them for the moment.

Oh and what I have just been reading on here it sounds like I should just go with the "PV Charge Control Mode". That will work with the wind gens right? It will just let it "freewheel", its this correct? I'm making them for free so I'm not out anything

No--usually for a Horizontal Axis Wind Turbine (the "classic type" of wind turbine)--they need a constant load (typically from charging the battery bank). If there is no load (such as a controller "turned off" the wind turbine as the battery is full)--no load, the wind turbine will spin so fast that they will self destruct in high winds.

Normally, the wind turbine always charges the battery bank and a "diversion" controller simply takes the extra current/power and sends it to a "dump load" (typically electric heater of some sort).

For your installation, you could connect the solar panels (with a blocking diode and fuse) to the battery bank (charging all the time) plus the wind turbine to the battery bank (charging all the time too) and have the diversion controller "dump" excess power to the heater when the batteries are full. Cheap way to do the battery charge control (assuming the charge controller and dump loads are large enough to manage the solar+wind maximum charging currents).

Note that diversion controllers do not charge the batteries as accurately as a standard PV series connected charge controller. And diversion controllers or loads can fail--So, for safety, electrical code requires 2 controllers+dump loads for safety (if this was going to be an NEC compliant system).

If I go with the "PV Charge Control Mode" can I just leave out the PVGFP they say to wire in?

I am not sure I follow your question...

You have lots of questions and have jumped right into the middle of pool here... Normally, 1) Charactize your loads and do lots of conservation. 2) Define your power needs (save money, go "green", emergency power after storms, etc.). 3) define your system to fulfill your needs.

If you are building this system for your personal education--go for it. If you are trying to build the system in a cost effective manner--you may not be too happy.

-Bill

YostFMX

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

Thanks for the info, though alot of it went over my head...

The fridge says its 290 kWa per year.

My property is in Yucca Valley, CA. 70 mile east of LA in the desert, sunny almost all the time. I'm rebuilding a little shack on the property along with another 600 st. ft. building. I have no money to hook the the power grid, nor do I want to really, same with water. This is the only cheap way to get power. This will be 100% my only power (besides propane)

The wind gens I think I'm going to sell and try to buy one more 205 watt panel. I think that will be enough power for me. I was living in my RV for a while and the 45 watt panel I have on it was almost running all my power needs (not a the fridge). Trust me I don't use much power...

As for the wiring I talked to my brother and I think I got all that worked out. Only thing is does anyone know if the C60 (or C35 / C40) when in "PV Charge Control Mode" will shut off the power when batteries get below 11.5v or 11.0v? Or will it just drain them with no "power shut off"?

Oh and when appliances (AC) say watt input on the back or lights, say a 60 watt bulb, does that mean 60 watts-per-hour? Or if not what is a watt-hour? and how would you find out what that 60 watt bulb will use in watt-hours?

I need a AC/CD for dummies and a solar system for dummies book

mike95490

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

So, you are talking about LOAD CONTROL being managed by your charge controller? That's the keyword to look for.
A 60w bulb, will in one hour, consume 60watt hours. In a half hour, it would consume 30 watt hours. A 5w CFL bulb, would consume 5 watt hours, in one hour.
A 200W PV panel, will in 6 hours of sunlight, harvest 160 watts x 6 = 960wh

BB.

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

Generally the Load Control is a low current output (8 amps or so). You should not connect it directly to an inverter/motor type output as the surge currents can damage the internal switch. Also, the Load Control is just based on battery voltage--not very accurate.

I would suggest you look at a battery monitor for your system. It will let you monitor the state of your battery charge much more accurate and easy to use. Some models (Xantrex for one) have an output that you can setup to turn off the remote control that is available on some inverters (for example, off at 50% state of charge, and back on at 80% SOC).

Regarding a refrigerator... If you are only going to be there weekends or a few months a year--a propane fridge may be more cost effective (you only pay for propane when you are at the cabin). If you are going to be there 9+ months of the year, a good energy star fridge+AC inverter is a nice way to go.

If you need a fridge only--using a converted chest freezer can make for a very energy efficient setup (some reports at 0.3kWHrs per day or a bit less).

Chest freezer as a chest refrigerator

-Bill

PS: To add to Mike's post... Note that the overall efficiency of the system (from solar panel marketing number to AC power out your inverter) works out to be about 50%... So:

200 Watt Panel * 6 Hours of Sun * 50% = 600 Watt*Hours

And when we talk about Hours of Sun--This is basically X Hours of Sun at the equivalent of "High Noon". You can use these PDF Tables of measured solar average energy over 20 years, or you can use the PV Watts website to calculate the average power available over the year.

It would not hurt to measure/estimate your AC loads with a Kill-a-Watt meter. If you have DC Loads, there are DC Amp*Hour/Watt*Hour meters you can use too.

YostFMX

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

This is the way I want to wire it, how does it look? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/Yostfmx/Mysolarpanelwiring2.jpg Am I missing anything? Will I burn down my house haha?

I'm going to look into the chest frezzer... 100 watts per day sounds sweet!

I will be living there full time.

BB.

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

YostFMX wrote: »

I'm going to look into the chest frezzer... 100 watts per day sounds sweet!

The numbers I have seen (just a couple) were around 250-300 Watt*Hours per day.

Still much better than the average full size fridge/freezer which is around 1,000 watt*hours per day.

-Bill

niel

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

in my opinion just use one disconnect on the positive lead from the controller to the batteries and add a fuse near the batteries on that same wire as a short from the batteries along that line would fry the wires. also take everything off of the pv negative leads as it does not need duplicated. 1 disconnect, 1 diode(if actually needed), and 1 fuse should be fine coming from the pvs no matter if it's on the + or -. most will leave the - free of anything due to grounds.
also, place the cc connections to the opposite end batteries and do the same with the inverter leads. example; if the inverter used the plus on the bottom battery then place the - lead to the top battery. this gives better balance to the batteries.

mikeo

Re: (2) 205w, (2) wind gen. & C60 How to hook up?

This is the way I want to wire it, how does it look?

Since you are wiring through the charge controller, you don't need the diodes in the panel circuit. The switch and fuse could be replaced with a DC rated 15 or 20 amp breaker if you choose.