NorthWind Power info

Powers

Please call or email for dealer pricing and additional photos.

sts@mc.net
office 800-838-1472
24 hour tech support 800-838-1472
24 hour (parts) air shipment 800-838-1472

NorthWind Power Inc.
Crystal Lake, IL

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

Do you have a place for manufactures to provide information on their product somewhere on this forum? We are interested in doing so mainly for suggestions and ideas that may have an ultimate positive impact on our product. If not, we expect you to remove this post and the last.

Windsun

Re: NorthWind Power info

Manufacturers should post in the appropriate section, in this case wind, in a new thread (ie, don't add onto an existing thread that is off topic).

BB.

Re: NorthWind Power info

POWERS,

Your other posts where deleted by accident instead of being moved to your own thread here. Please use this thread to let use know the current state of your product (in development, shipping, etc.).

Any links/information as to the performance and design details.

And if there are any customers out there at this time--please feel free to comment on the performance.

The manufacturer's link (from other thread) is:

Northwind Turbines Inc.

-Bill

Truth Squad

Re: NorthWind Power info

Hi Powers,

Where is your turbine made? Can you provide the parameters by which you tested it to determine power output? The duration of testing, the number of turbines in your test turbine group, the places the test turbines were installed?

peterako

Re: NorthWind Power info

I wash checking the link and i wash thinking if this is tested real life.

Downwind in a storm it is slower responding to wind bursts, having metal blade that must be bending and vibrating using on the edge small extra blades. That must be asking for problems.
The outer edge from blades are going to extreme high speed and even the best quality safety bold will came loss after the high speed and vibration. it is a problem on the hub where there is slow speed so putting it at the outer edge. that must be asking for a lunching of a object and then having a tower out of balance.

Every user from a wind generator is soon aware that in a storm you can not brake a wind generator and that the only speed control is use all the energy and move out of the wind. electronic braking is not smart it is extreme stressing all components and it will not stop but heat up. plus having this wind speed it is the time that the wind generator must make electricity.

I see a nice design whit out real life reports on there site or video from test sites.

Maybe they found the perfect design and the golden egg.

but there are enough story's from design failure.

I do not want to be a pain in the but i am wandering even the Chinese sites have more information. :roll:

update i see as well truth squad is ahead.

mike95490

Re: NorthWind Power info

Looks like a varaition of Hugh P. Axial Flux Alternator - I wonder if he has any patent coverage on it. (only executed in metal, not wood) http://www.scoraigwind.com/

And the little bits at the tips, looks kike they are just begging to fly off.

are there greasable bearings ?

I want someone to resurect the Jacobs !

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

I do appreciate all your input. This is why I am here.
The end result should be a mil that will performs and be reliable for the next 30 year.
We think we have a addressed some of the issues that some of you have mentioned. I will be providing test photos and video soon per your request.
Some of the items you have mentioned continue to be in question. I believe some of the questions remain unanswered even with the leading manufactures. You guys have clearly pointed this out in previous post. Some of your evaluations are spot on.

The alternator is liquid cooled. It has input and output fitting for an optional outboard radiator. The reason for this is; operating outside of its intended power rating. Operating in extremely high temperatures. Cooling while regen braking is applied. The locking force during braking is impressive.
The oil used for cooling and bearing lube is mineral oil.
If the rotor does run away, the cooling that is offered has eliminated overheating over several minutes. This has been done during dyno testing.
The i3Power makes 3200 watts at only 250 RPM.

Thank you for the questions and concerns.

Chuck
NorthWind Power Inc

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

Truth Squad wrote: »

Hi Powers,

Where is your turbine made? Can you provide the parameters by which you tested it to determine power output? The duration of testing, the number of turbines in your test turbine group, the places the test turbines were installed?

Truth Sqaud,

Please see video for one of the install sites.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xc4bufpm5yg

The turbine is made in Crystal Lake Illinois. The inverter is made by Power One.

Thanks!

niel

Re: NorthWind Power info

powers,
did you install that turbine in extreme makeover? i hope not as it doesn't even reach the roof peak.
am i seeing right that the blades seem doubled up?

russ

Re: NorthWind Power info

Hi - What is the rated speed and the annual output at that point?

Thanks

peterako

Re: NorthWind Power info

Sorry but you need to test for at least one year on ten different locations. real life tests slow winds and storm, measuring wind speed and power output.

liquid cooling tested for minutes .............
I have seen my setup passing twice a storm holding more then 24 h whit multiple pikes from 160 KM/H seeing my support wires stretching one more meter ( 3000 KG 6mm steel cable ).

Your setup must have 3,5 to 4 Meter blade dimension. But 3200W output plus the blitz eff. that means that your blades must produce 6000W. But that does not work by 320 RPM but you need above 760 Rpm if your blades are correct shaped.

If not place real technical information on your site to prove your design.
Tip blade speed, blade ratio, length material blades, amount and strength from magnets etc.

icarus

Re: NorthWind Power info

Using a YouTube vid, along with Extreme make over to answer some technical questions is a bit,,,lame?

I'm sorry, but there is a reason that small scale wind both has a bad rep AND is a tough sell. Even if you have the greatest product out there, getting acceptance is tough given the harshness that these units must perform in. Most small business are under capitalized, and have to run on a shoe string. Large ones, rely on hype and off shore manufacturing to get a product to market at a price that people will pay. The reality is that there is a huge paradox about small scale wind. They under perform in low winds and self destruct in high winds. So if you are in that magic sweet spot where you get ~15-20 mph nice and steady year round with no real gusts, you're golden. If you are like that 99.9999% of us who don't get a nice steady wind, and then are subjected to 60-100mph gusts you have a machine that doesn't produce much for much of the time, and then blows itself apart during the winter storms.

Tony

Kevinb

Re: NorthWind Power info

Boy, you guys are harsh. What are the pieces on the ends of the blades for?

peterako

Re: NorthWind Power info

Kevinb It is not harsh but realistic. There is a lot of information and research for wind generators and material. or check otherpower or scoraigwind and others.

Like i sad in my first post maybe this is a golden design by passing the rules for this moment but.....

I think that the little parts wings are used to push the blades back in the wind to avoid bending. under high speed the blade speed is like the speed from a airplane so a small wing is pushing hard but the centrifugal forces are more then extreme there so it is a risk. if you lose one under high speed in a storm......

Think about the balancing waits for the wheels of your car only 100 times the weight and placed 10 times further from the center on a nice high stick.:D

Greetings from greece

Truth Squad

Re: NorthWind Power info

Sorry, Powers, but my questions still stand and wait answers. Thanks!

mike95490

Re: NorthWind Power info

Is it just camera angle, or is the turbine close to the house (turbulant air) in the video?

I would not look a gift house in the mouth!

Powers

Re: NorthWind Power info

When I return from out of town next week, I will try to address all your questions.

PS; Niel, A local dealer managed the install.
Shutter speed on the camera made the double vision blades you referenced.

Happy Halloween!:grr

Kevinb

Re: NorthWind Power info

OK peterako, how about harsh but realistic? I'm not defending the design, I just asked a simple question and wasn't looking for a guess. Yes I agree that there is a lot of info on those websites and others, and although I don't post much in forums I have looked at most of the Internet info including all of the calculations that don't always work in real life.

I like the aluminum blades on my current home-built generator, and am building one with larger aluminum blades and a GL-1500 generator, that's why I ask about the tips. They don't look like they do anything aerodynamically to keep the blades from flexing- maybe they they help dampen vibrations?

So, I'll add to the list of questions for you Chuck-

1) What are the bolted-on parts on the tips for and what kind of testing resulted in the design?
2) Why the downwind design as opposed to a furling design? It seems to me that the extra electronics for braking and required liquid cooling just add to the possible failure modes. A furling mechanism when done properly (as in with bearings instead of a pipe sitting on top of another pipe) should last for many years without maintenance.

Good luck with your business, hopefully you can support your customers well.

BB.

Re: NorthWind Power info

They appear (as I see them) as winglets...

A winglet is a near-vertical extension of the wing tips. The upward angle (or cant) of the winglet, its inward or outward angle (or toe), as well as its size and shape are critical for correct performance and are unique in each application. The wingtip vortex, which rotates around from below the wing, strikes the cambered surface of the winglet, generating a force that angles inward and slightly forward, analogous to a sailboat sailing close hauled. The winglet converts some of the otherwise-wasted energy in the wingtip vortex to an apparent thrust.

This small contribution can be worthwhile over the aircraft's lifetime, provided the benefit offsets the cost of installing and maintaining the winglets. Another potential benefit of winglets is that they reduce the strength of wingtip vortices, which trail behind the plane. When other aircraft pass through these vortices, the turbulent air can cause loss of control, possibly resulting in an accident. This possibility is greatest near airports, where slow approach and departure speeds create the strongest vortices, and the minimum spacing requirements between aircraft operations at airports is largely due to these vortices.

Winglets and wing fences also increase efficiency by reducing vortex interference with laminar airflow near the tips of the wing,[3] by 'moving' the confluence of low-pressure (over wing) and high-pressure (under wing) air away from the surface of the wing. Wingtip vortices create turbulence, originating at the leading edge of the wingtip and propagating backwards and inboard. This turbulence 'delaminates' the airflow over a small triangular section of the outboard wing, which destroys lift in that area. The fence/winglet drives the area where the vortex forms upwards away from the wing surface, since the center of the resulting vortex is now at the tip of the winglet.

First time I have seen them used on a rotating device (unless you include ducted fans/turbines--which have a little history with wind turbine designs--and does not usually seem to be worth the costs/efforts of the structures for wind turbines). Interesting to see how well it works (if that is what they are).

-Bill

peterako

Re: NorthWind Power info

To explain my comments i have two wind generators from SWWP a 100 defect. A 200 Still flying but after several repairs and updating the tail size.
It is on a 15 M ( 50 feet ) pipe, and this is on the hill top, the olive trees are shaped by the wind on the hill top.

I am looking around to buy a new setup around 2500 to 3000 W. making not again the mistake to only listen to the sells person, i started reading the last two years.
And as a engineer i am aware that it must be possible to make small wind generators work.
It must be a combination off electronics and blade design/material. I am not against metal blades ( the resin blades from SWWP last max three years).
But any new design must prove there concept by testing and providing technical information. you are not buying a new car when the company only based on photos and speed, you want to see technical information and test reports.;)

I do not want to be critical and i am even willing to test a new setup and provide all required data. But i want to avoid that people are mislead.

p.s. B.B. I checked whit a friend a airplane designer the wingtips as your description work like that, But here we also have centrifugal forces playing up.
But again maybe it is a solution to great a more stable blade design.

Greetings from Greeece8)

gtxkid

Re: NorthWind Power info

I just bought the new book WIND ENERGY BASICS and also have Paul Gipe's other 500 page as well.
There is a lot of real good info in them.

Also i know there is a popular wind testing facility in Ft Collins CO, i was told they do the testing for SWWP and others.
Greg

WisJim

Re: NorthWind Power info

Two things that I noticed about this machine. A machine with this size of rotor won't produce 3kw in a 29 mph wind, which is stated to be the cut-out wind speed. It will need a higher wind to produce that much power, if it really works. The other thing is that metal blades aren't used in current wind generators due to radio and television interference, and failures due to metal fatigue. It looks to me that this is another machine that is an idea, not a tested realistic piece of equipment. (By the way, I have been working with wind machines since the mid 1970s).

edit to add: I just noticed that they are recommending a 45 foot tower, too, which is way too short--in Wisconsin, you couldn't get state rebates with that short of a tower!

peterako

Re: NorthWind Power info

After 12 days of silence,from this company, i am afraid that this thread must by moved to the scams corner.

But i am still waiting for the correct small wind solution.:-)

Greetings from Greece8)

stephendv

Re: NorthWind Power info

Peterako,

Have you had a look at:

http://www.futurenergy.co.uk
http://www.renewablecomponents.com/

Windsun

Re: NorthWind Power info

peterako wrote: »

After 12 days of silence,from this company, i am afraid that this thread must by moved to the scams corner.

But i am still waiting for the correct small wind solution.:-)

Greetings from Greece8)

I am tending to agree, not like that is anything unusual anymore with wind generators. If none of the asked for info is forthcoming soon, will move it, or a mod can move it.

BB.

Re: NorthWind Power info

Moved to product discussion/review section for now...

-Bill

WillWinston

Re: NorthWind Power info

Sooooo

I googled NorthWind power and got this for their address

4702 Rt 176 Suite F Crystal Lake IL


http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&fkt=3156&fsdt=22485&q=North+Wind+Power+Crystal+Lake+IL&aq=f&oq=&aqi=


and since I am very close to them and a wind power afficianado and advocate, I thought I would go over and have a look at their facility







here is Suite F

mike95490

Re: NorthWind Power info

WillWinston wrote: »

Suite F

Sounds like a mail drop !! Good Luck.

Windsun

Re: NorthWind Power info

Those are some pretty convincing pictures that not all is as claimed in the original posts.

peterako

Re: NorthWind Power info

So at the end of this story i am happy if we are avoiding this type of " friendly company's " using comments in this forum.

I am everyday learning from this forum, and maybe it is good to be harsh if a new design is promoted and there is no real life realistic test reports.

P.s. i really think that it is time to move this thread to the scam area. But that is me i am not a moderator.

Greetings from Greece 8)