Truth About Skystream & SWWP

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  • springer-springer- Registered Users Posts: 3
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    Wade wrote: »
    You bought two Skystreams with the towers for $5000 total or $5000 each?

    $5000 total. Then to take them down and move them about 50 miles it cost me $850. The shocker today was figuring out I need #8 rebar for the pads. That is 1" diameter!! I was expecting to use 1/2" rebar, now I have to source some 1". I expect it to be somewhat expensive. Then I estimate about 20 yards of fiber reinforced 4000 psi concrete at about 105 per yard. The bolt kits I found on line and calling dealers averaged $600-$1000 each. I found a company to make them to spec for $550 for 2 kits delivered.

    So doing all the math we have

    5000 cost of windmills
    850 take down and move
    2100 concrete
    550 bolts
    1000 est for rebar at $3 per foot

    $9500 est total ... previous est of $8500 was assuming I could use rebar I already have.

    I am also thinking about making a hinge plate for each one and a gin pole to ease future ups and downs. Anyone have a hinge plate for a 17" base bolt pattern and a gin pole for the same that can take some pictures and demensions for me?

    Thanks
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    Do you have access to sun for most or all of the day? Meaning you are not shaded by neighbors trees, buildings, mountains etc. If so, I would strongly suggest you consider unloading the Skystreams and putting that money into solar before you go any further in the hole with this project. Not kidding!
  • WadeWade Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    $5000 is a great price. All the other stuff adds up fast doesn't it. If you don't mind me asking where are you located? You mentioned you hope to get $60 to $80 dollars savings a month. Where I am, south of Fort Worth, that would come out to 550 - 730 KWh generated. I hope it works out for you. Good luck!
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,758 admin
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    There was one Skystream owner (blog.keepturning.com website long since abandoned) (near Lake Erie?) during the good months, as I remember:

    JANES HOUSEHOLD SKYSTREAM kWh RECORD

    kwh_header.jpg




    JAN

    FEB

    MAR

    APR

    MAY

    JUN

    JUL

    AUG

    SEP

    OCT

    NOV

    DEC

    Total



    2007

    n/a

    n/a

    n/a

    n/a

    n/a

    n/a

    n/a

    n/a

    n/a

    175

    225

    0*

    400



    2008

    98*

    292

    308
    246
    228
    153
    92
    84
    97
    164
    246
    472
    2,480


    2009

    265
    348
    244
    371
    182
    86
    90
    84
    250
    100
    194
    131*
    2,345


    2010

    101
    130
























    * December, 2007 - Skystream shut down from software problem with cold and would not restart.
    * January, 2008 - Skystream down until the 27th. Produce 98kWh in the 5 days remaining in the month.
    * December, 2009 - Skystream shut down several times and would not restart on it's own, production very low for wind speeds.
    * January, 2010 - Production very low for wind speeds.
    * February, 2010 - Production very low for wind speeds.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • springer-springer- Registered Users Posts: 3
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    Wade wrote: »
    $5000 is a great price. All the other stuff adds up fast doesn't it. If you don't mind me asking where are you located? You mentioned you hope to get $60 to $80 dollars savings a month. Where I am, south of Fort Worth, that would come out to 550 - 730 KWh generated. I hope it works out for you. Good luck!

    I am in Maine. I was hoping 60-80 per month is a average estimate for 2 of them. However I have been rethinking it and have listed one back for sale. If I can sell one and cover the cost of purchase, then it will essentially be free and anything it produces will be a bonus. ie no ROI needed. Then I can take the money and put it in other alternative energy like solar or solar hot water.

    We'll see if I get any responces and in the mean time I will do 1 install. At least that is the plan for the moment. The comments here have me thinking.
  • ggunnggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    springer- wrote: »
    $5000 total. Then to take them down and move them about 50 miles it cost me $850. The shocker today was figuring out I need #8 rebar for the pads. That is 1" diameter!! I was expecting to use 1/2" rebar, now I have to source some 1". I expect it to be somewhat expensive. Then I estimate about 20 yards of fiber reinforced 4000 psi concrete at about 105 per yard. The bolt kits I found on line and calling dealers averaged $600-$1000 each. I found a company to make them to spec for $550 for 2 kits delivered.

    So doing all the math we have

    5000 cost of windmills
    850 take down and move
    2100 concrete
    550 bolts
    1000 est for rebar at $3 per foot

    $9500 est total ... previous est of $8500 was assuming I could use rebar I already have.

    I am also thinking about making a hinge plate for each one and a gin pole to ease future ups and downs. Anyone have a hinge plate for a 17" base bolt pattern and a gin pole for the same that can take some pictures and demensions for me?

    Thanks
    I hate to sound like a broken record and I apologize if this was asked and answered somewhere in this megathread, but do you have a year's worth of data to support the viability of wind turbines at the site and elevation where you plan to build this installation? That's an awful lot of money - by my standards, anyway - to spend on a chancy system.
  • halfcrazyhalfcrazy Solar Expert Posts: 717 ✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    springer- wrote: »
    I am in Maine. I was hoping 60-80 per month is a average estimate for 2 of them. However I have been rethinking it and have listed one back for sale. If I can sell one and cover the cost of purchase, then it will essentially be free and anything it produces will be a bonus. ie no ROI needed. Then I can take the money and put it in other alternative energy like solar or solar hot water.

    We'll see if I get any responces and in the mean time I will do 1 install. At least that is the plan for the moment. The comments here have me thinking.

    Where in Maine? I am in Central Maine and have Wind and PV I can tell you the money you spend on Wind will never come close to producing the KWH per year the PV will. I do wind because it is Fun and living off grid it fills in the few voids I have during the winter storms. I will have a look at the Classic controller on my neighbors 17ft machine and it shows 1786 KWH total and I installed that about a year ago.

    Ryan
  • ChasMtnManChasMtnMan Registered Users Posts: 6
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    Hello AGAIN. I removed my posting on this site in Dec. 2011, as a result of a Better Business Bureau Arbitration Decision which required me to do so; but, it also required Southwest Windpower to relocate one of my towers to a more favorable location on our property and to replace both of our 45' 3-section towers with single section 45' towers, and the LEVEL them and place them in service. The Company did all that was require of them EXCEPT to get 'em LEVEL. They abandoned the project; therefore I feel that I'm not under any obligation to not to continue to tell my story. Rather than go into detail here, please visit my website at: http://b-d.ranch.tripod.com/twoskystream37installationsgonewrong/ as I've updated it and you can read "the rest of the story" (as Paul Harvey would say). I don't expect anything else from this company. As a retired person on S.S. and fixed income, this was the worst decision I've ever made. The Company promoted and advertised that the average customer would save from 30-80% on their electric energy requirements from ONE Skystream 3.7 Wind Turbine. Over a 3-year period, my savings have been 7.5%! Being between "Medicare and Death", nothing matters much any more. Considering the state of the Nation and the Economy, there's no better time to be OLD than now! Best of Luck to all of you who have invested in this product.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,758 admin
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    It does not get any better with time. I am truly sorry that you have so many problems with your installation. The updates don't look any better since you last posted.

    -Bill :cry:
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • ggunnggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    ChasMtnMan wrote: »
    Hello AGAIN. I removed my posting on this site in Dec. 2011, as a result of a Better Business Bureau Arbitration Decision which required me to do so; but, it also required Southwest Windpower to relocate one of my towers to a more favorable location on our property and to replace both of our 45' 3-section towers with single section 45' towers, and the LEVEL them and place them in service. The Company did all that was require of them EXCEPT to get 'em LEVEL. They abandoned the project; therefore I feel that I'm not under any obligation to not to continue to tell my story. Rather than go into detail here, please visit my website at: http://b-d.ranch.tripod.com/twoskystream37installationsgonewrong/ as I've updated it and you can read "the rest of the story" (as Paul Harvey would say). I don't expect anything else from this company. As a retired person on S.S. and fixed income, this was the worst decision I've ever made. The Company promoted and advertised that the average customer would save from 30-80% on their electric energy requirements from ONE Skystream 3.7 Wind Turbine. Over a 3-year period, my savings have been 7.5%! Being between "Medicare and Death", nothing matters much any more. Considering the state of the Nation and the Economy, there's no better time to be OLD than now! Best of Luck to all of you who have invested in this product.

    I am very sorry to hear your story, but it backs up what I have always thought, that there is a LOT of charlatanism afoot in Small Wind. Not that solar is immune to it, but the solar resource at a given location is relatively simply quantified and verifiable. With wind, not so much. There is a boatload of dependable solar hardware on the market which has been vetted by a large customer base. Again, with wind, not so much.
  • ChasMtnManChasMtnMan Registered Users Posts: 6
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    ChasMtnMan wrote: »
    Hello AGAIN. I removed my posting on this site in Dec. 2011, as a result of a Better Business Bureau Arbitration Decision which required me to do so; but, it also required Southwest Windpower to relocate one of my towers to a more favorable location on our property and to replace both of our 45' 3-section towers with single section 45' towers, and the LEVEL them and place them in service. The Company did all that was require of them EXCEPT to get 'em LEVEL. They abandoned the project; therefore I feel that I'm not under any obligation to not to continue to tell my story. Rather than go into detail here, please visit my website at: http://b-d.ranch.tripod.com/twoskystream37installationsgonewrong/ as I've updated it and you can read "the rest of the story" (as Paul Harvey would say). I don't expect anything else from this company. As a retired person on S.S. and fixed income, this was the worst decision I've ever made. The Company promoted and advertised that the average customer would save from 30-80% on their electric energy requirements from ONE Skystream 3.7 Wind Turbine. Over a 3-year period, my savings have been 7.5%! Being between "Medicare and Death", nothing matters much any more. Considering the state of the Nation and the Economy, there's no better time to be OLD than now! Best of Luck to all of you who have invested in this product.

    Just a Quick Update. You cannot go to my old website that I mention above as Southwest Windpower was able to get Lycos/Tripod to remove it. What happened to Freedom of Speech? I have communicated with Mr. Brian Kalinowski, COO Lycos, Inc. for him to explain what rules I had broken that gave them the right to remove my website. As of today (10/3/12), I have received no reply. Maybe some of you folks who support my effort can also communicate with Lycos about this. I've re-published all of my YouTube Videos that I had previously removed to comply with the arbitration decision. Since the Company did not comply, I feel that I'm not under any obligation to curtail my freedom of speech in sharing my experience with this Company and their Skystream 3.7 wind turbines. If interested, go to YouTube and search for "ChasMtnMan". I appreciate all the support that I've received from so many of you.
  • ChrisOlsonChrisOlson Banned Posts: 1,807 ✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    This is a really old thread, and I didn't read all of it because I've seen and heard about this story before. The moral to the story is that one of the key words in "wind turbine" is "wind". It takes wind to make a wind turbine work. And not just any wind. At less than 60 feet above the ground you are not even out of the "roll zone" from turbulence created by the wind flowing over the terrain. In very cold climates you can get away with installing a wind turbine on a tower shorter than 60 feet, and it will work - kind of. But anywhere you have ground heating by the sun during the day, causing thermals and severe low level turbulence, a wind turbine on a short tower is nothing but a yard ornament.

    And that's the real message that anybody looking at wind power should get, loud and clear. There is nothing inherently wrong with the Skystream 3.7 turbine. But it won't work on a short tower any better than installing solar panels in your basement will work.
    --
    Chris
  • Jumping JinnyJumping Jinny Registered Users Posts: 3
    The truth about Skystream & SWWP/Dealer

    To own a Skystream 3.7 is an experience!

    As part of the $15,100.-- you receive:" ...sorry that you are not happy with our product"...

    SWWP is not responsible for their dealer. Dealer:"we did all we could..."

    SWWP will replace turbines at dealers request, which does not make sense since this is a perfect product!

    This means to me that SWWP or the dealer do not know what they are doing?
    Jumping Jinny's experience.
  • Jumping JinnyJumping Jinny Registered Users Posts: 3
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    Thought you may like to know that SSWP is wanting to buy back (?) the purr- fect Turbine.... after replacing two... Thing is that even the third appointment was missed to tell customer the details about this event....
    And so it goes for Windpower and Skystream 3.7.... A senior customer....

    ChasMtnMan wrote: »
    Hello AGAIN. I removed my posting on this site in Dec. 2011, as a result of a Better Business Bureau Arbitration Decision which required me to do so; but, it also required Southwest Windpower to relocate one of my towers to a more favorable location on our property and to replace both of our 45' 3-section towers with single section 45' towers, and the LEVEL them and place them in service. The Company did all that was require of them EXCEPT to get 'em LEVEL. They abandoned the project; therefore I feel that I'm not under any obligation to not to continue to tell my story. Rather than go into detail here, please visit my website at: http://b-d.ranch.tripod.com/twoskystream37installationsgonewrong/ as I've updated it and you can read "the rest of the story" (as Paul Harvey would say). I don't expect anything else from this company. As a retired person on S.S. and fixed income, this was the worst decision I've ever made. The Company promoted and advertised that the average customer would save from 30-80% on their electric energy requirements from ONE Skystream 3.7 Wind Turbine. Over a 3-year period, my savings have been 7.5%! Being between "Medicare and Death", nothing matters much any more. Considering the state of the Nation and the Economy, there's no better time to be OLD than now! Best of Luck to all of you who have invested in this product.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,758 admin
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    I hope that you can get something back from your expenditures... If they buy back just the turbine and not the rest (tower, installation costs, etc.)--Its better than nothing...

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Jumping JinnyJumping Jinny Registered Users Posts: 3
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    Thank you for your Relpy BB,

    There are times when I may would agree with you that 1/3 of something is better than nothing;( $5033.33 over $15,100.-- plus hours spend hoping to receive a working product, extra financial outlays, being told about email protocol, being informed by SWWP Attorney's to "stay in line ( my words) "; if Warranty work is needed, proof it to us", checking your own electrical problems was suggested by SWWP, stress over 4+ years ...) The continued drag in service. To hear:" sorry we are so busy, but we remember that you are there".
    In this case I beg to differ!
    This long time friend and disabled Vietnam Veteran died two weeks after placing the order for a Skystream 3.7. There was no question about finishing his last project! He had done all the research and put his trust in the SKystrean 3.7 Dealer he found on SWWP's web site. He made arrangements as to how he would pay for his last PROJECT!
    And PAYMENT was accepted!
    Of course who would think that the Skystream 3.7 company and their Dealer were not what they claimed to be. The Dealer was able to replace two or three turbines (the Attorney's know how many turbines), the Dealer / Company was not able to level the Turbine but finally said they did and SWWP Attorney's agreed. That they ( SWWP) prefer to intimidate customers rather than doing the right thing and stand by their product!
    NO THE VIETNAM VETERAN, or any other Customer do not deserve treatment like this from an AMERICAN Company, or any Company.
    One third of something is not enough!
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,758 admin
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    J.J.,

    I agree that if the system they are selling does not work per their specifications--Then you should be made whole again. And I hope they do (with some help from your lawyers).

    From what I have read before--They will offer to return the turbine, but not any of the other costs. And will (or have) cut the installer loose--Who now has no product or cash flow--So, they are gone too. What happens next--probably only the attorneys involved have a clue.

    Again, I am very sorry that you have experienced this. I hope that things eventually go better.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,196 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    There are good employers and bad, I was recently reduced to 16 hours a week until 2013, with no notice, others were layed off with no notice even thoughthey had increased services just a couple weeks before. It's run by unpaid BOD's so it's a crap shoot.

    I've also worked for a couple great companies in Tallahassee Fl, Harvest Printing, were the boss maxed out his credit cards to give the empolyee's a christmas bonus, and Graphateria where I was rehired in a different position and quit after 6 weeks, thats right I quit the job, Bob paid me 2 weeks severence pay which I paid for 3 months of Cobra(health insurance) then proceeded to pay the rest of my elegible 15 months of health insurance. I had worked there before and they were like family to me, but I didn't expect this.

    There are some great employers out there! Hope you find one!
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,196 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    Should have said quit after 6 "months" I was just back seeing if this was the company with the wisper 900 mentioned in another thread and noticed I had goofed up...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • ChasMtnManChasMtnMan Registered Users Posts: 6
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    Thought you may like to know that SSWP is wanting to buy back (?) the purr- fect Turbine.... after replacing two... Thing is that even the third appointment was missed to tell customer the details about this event....
    And so it goes for Windpower and Skystream 3.7.... A senior customer....

    Be careful about any and all offers made by this company! After three years of trying to deal with SWWP, then participating in BBB Arbitration, still they did not do what was required of them in the Decision of Arbitration. Oh well, I'm OLD and they know it and most likely expected me to just die. Well, I ain't dead YET, but I've just about given up. What a Rip-Off, and worst of all it was encouraged by our President Obama! Good Luck to you and all other who read this post.
  • ggunnggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    ChasMtnMan wrote: »
    Be careful about any and all offers made by this company! After three years of trying to deal with SWWP, then participating in BBB Arbitration, still they did not do what was required of them in the Decision of Arbitration. Oh well, I'm OLD and they know it and most likely expected me to just die. Well, I ain't dead YET, but I've just about given up. What a Rip-Off, and worst of all it was encouraged by our President Obama! Good Luck to you and all other who read this post.
    Somehow I can't see the connection between your conflict with a private company and the President.
  • waynefromnscanadawaynefromnscanada Solar Expert Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    ggunn wrote: »
    Somehow I can't see the connection between your conflict with a private company and the President.

    Very good point.
  • CariboocootCariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    Put the political brakes on guys.

    This disinterested Canadian observer does not see a president promoting renewable energy in general as endorsement of a specific company by him, even if accompanied by photo ops at that company.
    Nor is it true that a president of the US can give billions of your tax dollars to anyone without the oversight and approval of Congress.

    Anyone who gets their technical information from a politician is asking for trouble anyway.
  • ChasMtnManChasMtnMan Registered Users Posts: 6
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    ggunn wrote: »
    Somehow I can't see the connection between your conflict with a private company and the President.

    Can't see the connection? It came close to another Solyndra scandal! President Obama visited the highly endorsed Southwest Windpower in Flagstaff, AZ because they are the largest worldwide manufacturer of small wind generators (100 KW and below). It is difficult to truly appreciate how emerging technologies impact our economy. Take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw3ivnuIpN0
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    ChasMtnMan wrote: »
    ... because they are the largest worldwide manufacturer of small wind generators (100 KW and below). It is difficult to truly appreciate how emerging technologies impact our economy. Take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw3ivnuIpN0
    Shipped 160,000 small turbines to 90 countries. Wow! (Are those audited figures, and how many of them came back I wonder?) I did not realize they were that big.
    One computer hard drive manufacturer nearing bankruptcy was taking returned defective units, letting them "age" in the box for a month, and then sending them out again as new.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • ggunnggunn Solar Expert Posts: 1,973 ✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP
    ChasMtnMan wrote: »
    Can't see the connection? It came close to another Solyndra scandal! President Obama visited the highly endorsed Southwest Windpower in Flagstaff, AZ because they are the largest worldwide manufacturer of small wind generators (100 KW and below). It is difficult to truly appreciate how emerging technologies impact our economy. Take a look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw3ivnuIpN0
    The President is neither a technologist nor a clairvoyant. Solyndra failed in large part because their process became economically nonviable when the cost of Chinese manufactured silicon modules fell through the floor into the basement. Their product worked.
  • boBboB Solar Expert Posts: 940 ✭✭✭
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    Solyndra went out of business in large part because their product was like $5.00 per watt when PV prices were $3.00 per watt even before China went dumping !

    They did not stand a chance and wasting the money certainly didn't help either.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,758 admin
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    Everybody knew that Solindra was not going to make it and was only surviving on loans and investors--But that is probably how the vast majority of startups in Silicon Valley start/grow/die. Ones that actually thrive and make money are pretty rare.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Beechg35Beechg35 Registered Users Posts: 1
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    Can you provide contact information on supplier? I need a hinge plate and gin pole to service my Skystream 3.7.
    Thanks,
    Mike Avey
    Beechg35@aol.com
    940.631.6324
    springer- wrote: »
    $5000 total. Then to take them down and move them about 50 miles it cost me $850. The shocker today was figuring out I need #8 rebar for the pads. That is 1" diameter!! I was expecting to use 1/2" rebar, now I have to source some 1". I expect it to be somewhat expensive. Then I estimate about 20 yards of fiber reinforced 4000 psi concrete at about 105 per yard. The bolt kits I found on line and calling dealers averaged $600-$1000 each. I found a company to make them to spec for $550 for 2 kits delivered.

    So doing all the math we have

    5000 cost of windmills
    850 take down and move
    2100 concrete
    550 bolts
    1000 est for rebar at $3 per foot

    $9500 est total ... previous est of $8500 was assuming I could use rebar I already have.

    I am also thinking about making a hinge plate for each one and a gin pole to ease future ups and downs. Anyone have a hinge plate for a 17" base bolt pattern and a gin pole for the same that can take some pictures and demensions for me?

    Thanks
  • CompetitonCompetiton Registered Users Posts: 1
    Re: Truth About Skystream & SWWP

    I wanted to see if anyone could give me some guideance i have 9 pairs if the whisper 500 blades that i got stuck with when swwp went under and they stiffed me on the bills they owed. Do these blades have any value. Any help would be great
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