Rogue MPT-3024

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  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,768 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    But a 3 db change in power is barely a perceptible difference for sound and light for humans.

    The world we live in, for the most part, our senses are logarithmic, not linear.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    so bill, do you think it's ok to feed an antenna with a cable that has a 6db loss? it is far from insignificant when dealing with radio or radio waves and i am aware of it being logarithmic.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,768 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Just saying--1 S unit is 6db (as I recall)--And there are usually at least a range of around 1-10+ on an S meter. On an FM signal, one SU is not a huge difference in signal quality.

    Would I suggest that people have a 6db loss in their cabling... Not ideally.

    Would I suggest that somebody spend a whole bunch more money on a portable 10 watt transceiver vs a 5 watt transceiver? No, the battery system would be 2x heavier for the 10 watt unit vs using an ~15" whip which weighs almost nothing--I would tell them not to use the rubber duck and get a small whip instead which would also give you ~6db gain on both transmit and receive (vs a 10 watt transceiver which only has additional gain on transmit, not on receive).

    Yes a doubling in current (or voltage) is a 4x increase in output power (transmit power).

    When doing open range RF testing of computers with calibrated equipment on an open air test site--We would get repeatable results at about the 3 db level...

    Any minor change in cable routing, orientation, etc. would change the signal levels by 3 db easily.

    If we wanted to be absolutely sure that our equipment would not fail some import/tariff screening--We would require a 10db safety factor. (that was decades ago... This days, nobody cares about margins with the average commercial equipment).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • MicJarMicJar Registered Users Posts: 4
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    For me I am just talking about a AM/FM/ MP3 player It sits about 2 feet from the Rogue. I have not ran it up and down the dial YET.
  • photovoltaicphotovoltaic Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    RFI noise on a radio could come in via the power , or via the antenna being radiated. As said before with all the switching going on in a MPPT controller that can cause some noise.
  • nielniel Solar Expert Posts: 10,311 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    MicJar wrote: »
    For me I am just talking about a AM/FM/ MP3 player It sits about 2 feet from the Rogue. I have not ran it up and down the dial YET.

    move the radio away from it. the interference will drop by, i believe, 6db by your doubling the distance from 2 to 4ft. double the distance again from 4 to 8ft and it will drop another 6db. this is 12db and will represent about a 16x reduction in that interference. double it again from 8ft to 16ft and this is an 18db reduction for about 64x lower. this may need to apply to the pv and battery wiring as well for these can be radiating the interference so moving from the controller to the pv wiring for instance could be detrimental. also know that radio waves can have hot spots due to reflections mainly, but not only.
  • sloarlitesloarlite Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Don't have the Rogue, but my Morningstar Sunsaver 15 mppt produces interference on the lower AM band. So does my 2 different 55 and 60 amp RV converters. WFCO and Progressive dynamics. Oh and so does my 400 Watt B&D inverter.

    Jim
  • photovoltaicphotovoltaic Solar Expert Posts: 37 ✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    A bit off topic for this thread but since the subject came up - Samlex sine wave inverters were tested by QST ( the national amatuer radio magazine and found to be very quiet. They also tested various switching power supplies and most of them were clean of noise. I have a newer model Samlex 1500 watt sine wave inverter and it doesn't cause RFI. My Morningstar 60 amp MPPT inverter does cause some noise in the daytime but I haven't taken the time to analyze if it changes under load or voltages. I also have a Morningstar Sunsaver 15 amp MPPT controller and it does seem to make some noise too. Maybe some day I will have to analyze and document what I hear and start a new thread. The only thing I have on the power lines so far is having the controller to battery cables twisted up some.
  • alyazalyaz Solar Expert Posts: 104 ✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I finally was able to find an installer in my neck of the woods who has installed my new Rogue. The installer has been a supporter of another 'big name brand' controller. However, he's been blown away by the Rogue's quality and performance. He wouldn't believe me when I told him what they sell for. Anyway, just a plug for the Rogue and to Marc for always being available to answer a question or to just let you know he stands behind his well thought out and quality products. Regards,
  • ArionArion Registered Users Posts: 4
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I know this is kind of an old thread but I have had a small 300 watt system for over 10 years now. I'm a ham radio operator and I run my station off the system as well as the cabin water pump and LED emergency lighting, ect. I serviced my backup generator and decided it was time to stick some more money and add some capability to my system. I replaced my batteries which were getting older and I had a BZ charge controller that has never worked all that good.

    I started doing some research and spent a few weeks and learned about the power point controllers and was getting ready to plunk down some C notes for a blue sky controller when I came across this thread. After reading the thread and seeing a few of these units for sale on Ebay I decided to purchase one. I got it the 3rd week of Jan and I've had it running for a few weeks now. Solar in the U.P. of Michigan in January doesn't do very well as one can imagine. Yet, I'm seeing about a 30% to 35% increase in charge current running to the batts as compared to the BZ charger. It's definitely a keeper. Just wanted to join the forum and to add my input on this controller that few seem to know about. I'm going to add about 200 watts more in panels and that will round this out quite nicely for me. Although in summer I know the input might be a little more than 30 amps and that is all I can get out of the controller I think pushing the panels a bit above that will work out pretty nicely as it's not too often up here that the conditions are right to get full output on the panels.

    Next step will be to purchase a combiner, breakers and a different battery charger from here. I bought some equipment from this place when I first put the system in and it's nice to see the prices on various pieces of equipment to continue to moderate.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Welcome to the forum. Stick around, there are some very nice folks here, a couple of grouches, but nearly all have a vast storehouse of information that they are all too willing to share.

    I often listen to Houghton public radio, as it skips across the big lake, and especially in the winter we get it pretty clear. Say ya to da UP eh!

    Tony.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Regarding Ham Radio, and NOISE from MPPT CCs and other switching devices like Inverters, this thread has some possibly useful info:

    http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?5887-Radio-Noise-from-PV-System.

    AND, the Rouge MPPT CC seems to be a very nice, well engineered product. Have not seen or used one, but Marc has done a very nice job on it, and supports it well.

    Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • ArionArion Registered Users Posts: 4
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    icarus wrote: »
    I often listen to Houghton public radio, as it skips across the big lake, and especially in the winter we get it pretty clear. Say ya to da UP eh!

    Tony.

    Heh...then you really know about the winter sun angle, eh??
    Vic wrote: »
    Regarding Ham Radio, and NOISE from MPPT CCs and other switching devices like Inverters
    .....the Rouge MPPT CC seems to be a very nice, well engineered product. Have not seen or used one, but Marc has done a very nice job on it, and supports it well.

    Vic


    The MPPT is really pretty 'radio quiet' which is somewhat surprising. There may be a few birdies around on discrete frequencies that I have not run into but the charger is inducing no noise that I can discern into the system. The entire system including the various radios is using a common ground which helps a lot of course.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Mine actually induces a Fair bit of noise very weak FM stations,, which all of ours are. I've tried frites, encasing it in a copper screen cage, but as soon as the sun comes up full, the radio goes to hell. Thank goodness for reasonable ISP these days,, I just use a iPod touch as an internet radio, for the same stations. (wggl is not available as a stream however, so I have to settle for MNPR).
    Winter angle, I have some panels mounted on the wall, so they are vertical, so they don't accumulate any snow. The roof panels I have to sweep now and again.

    Tony
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Tony,

    Here, almost ALL the noise is conducted on the PV leads, and some on the battery leads. Common-Mode chokes do wonders in reduction of noise.

    A directional FM antenna would prob help, if you are not using one already. Would be good if any FM antenna would have the PV array behind it, ETC, but you know this. BUT, guess the internet option works for you ...
    Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I've tried most everything, mostly to no avail. My problem is that I am 150k from the transmitter, so the signals are very weak. (in the case of the Houghton station, closer to 300 km). I use a directional yagi antenna to get any thing at all. I've tried chokes on both the battery and the PV wires.

    I have just learned the work arounds. I am changing from a sat ISP to a 4g cell service, with an yagi and amplifier this spring. I am hoping that the controller doesn't induce noise into that service to make it useless. I'll let you know.

    Tony
  • _OS__OS_ Solar Expert Posts: 202 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    I order the MPT-3024 this week and will have it delivered to my hotel while I am at the Embedded Systems Conference in San Jose next week. It will replace my SunSaver MPPT controller that will be too small when I upgrade to a 280W PV array.

    I will report back when I have installed it and used it for a while.

    Ole
  • JakachiraJakachira Solar Expert Posts: 47
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Just contacted Marc this afternoon and he promised the Rogue MPPT Controller with maximum of 100Voc input is on its way sometime end of this year. I was thinking of buying Tristar MPPT 45 but i really do not like the info display of the controller and it is expensive too.. I will wait a bit.. I have a friend studying in US and he will bring it for me..

    Marc, I will be very happy if this item hits the shelves by end of this year ..lol :-)
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    "I am changing from a sat ISP to a 4g cell service, with an yagi and amplifier this spring. I am hoping that the controller doesn't induce noise into that service to make it useless. I'll let you know."

    Tony, any word on the 4G yet?
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Ralph,

    The change over happend in Early. March. What a huge difference. Ping times dropped to nothing, from nearly 1 second, so I can use VoIP phone, down load speeds whet from .8 mps to about 5mps,, 6 times faster. Fast enough to stream video without buffering at all.
    We went with a rocket hub system that integrates the phone and the ISP in one unit, by plugging a land line into the modem. The phone service is $15 for unlimited time,, no per minute charge. TBay tel, our provider has a step rate data plan that starts at ~$30/month for 3 gigs, moving up to $70/month for 20. We use ~5.

    All thing considered, I couldn't be happier. I stream audio all day with out fade, solving my radio problems. The modem (with a wireless router built in) b urns less than 15 watts. the sat system burned ~ 20, plus the router.

    Tony
  • mikeomikeo Solar Expert Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    Just contacted Marc this afternoon and he promised the Rogue MPPT Controller with maximum of 100Voc input is on its way sometime end of this year.
    I had talked to Marc about this a year or two ago. It will be a more useful MPPT controller with higher voltage panels available now as I found 60 volts way too limiting. Way to go Marc. Any way to upgrade the older units to these 100 volt devices?
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Wow Tony, what great service! I'm about 11km from the tower my external antenna is pointed to and I get nothing like that (3G supposed to be). Ping of 151ms, download of .56mbps just now. How close are you to your provider? There are towers all around here in southern Ontario, but your service kicks cheeks!

    http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/cancellsites.html

    Shows all the towers in Canada. Looks to be lots of towers along hwy 11 into Manitoba, but the map scale....
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Ralph,

    We have service thorugh TBay Tel with an association with Rodgers. It is a 4G HSPA service, with all new infrastructure. The service along the highway is pretty sparse, but as long as we are static it works great.i expect the speeds to slow down a bit during he summer when the is a it more activity around but pretty confident it will remain better than Xplornet.,, at less than half the price!

    We are about 15 Kms from the tower, but have a pretty big hill between us and them. I have a 24 dg gain Yagi mounted ~40' off the ground.


    The great thing is they don't throttle us back, if you go over, they stair step you up to the next larger plan automatically.

    Tony
  • Ralph DayRalph Day Solar Expert Posts: 871 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Thanks Tony
    I'm on a Rogers Rocket Hub too. I turned down the purchase of an updated router, just whined and got $15 credit for each month. Now I wish I'd upgraded. It didn't sound like there was going to be much difference between services, sounded like wishful thinking in the flyer. Oh well, things can only get faster and cheaper, can't they? Explornet down here is ponderous and expensive too (any wireless service seems to be).

    To keep with the thread's focus (which was?) how much power is consumed by your Rouge inverter? I haven't examined my SW4048 too closely, but know that when on grid power, with solar or wind meeting and/or exceeding loads, the inverter draws about 250watts from the grid. That's stupid. It appears that if grid power is connected the inverter doesn't power itself from the renewables but from grid. If I want to float the system overnight I have to turn the inverter's charger on then off in the morning. Part of the problem is the T240 autotransformer that needs to be "on" since the grid connection is 240 and there's only one 120v inverter/charger. The external power connection is grid or generator, so the control method is via AC2 (generator). If power is sensed coming in to the inverter it will charge...the T240 must be turned off (forgot once or twice so far).

    Ralph
  • JakachiraJakachira Solar Expert Posts: 47
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    mikeo, how does MX 60 controller performs? If Marc delays to release his.. I might choose a FlexMax 60 but I heard the controller is prone to failures e.g fans, relays etc.

    A Morningstar TS 45 MPPT is ok but I do not like their displays. I consider the display as one of the necessary features all serious controllers should have.
  • ArmyVetArmyVet Banned Posts: 20
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Anyone Hear yet of any updates on the Rogue Series. Personally I would think something new would be hatched by now. Seems to have a great Market Pull. But no new updated Controllers or Updated Software control or Nothing.
  • mikeomikeo Solar Expert Posts: 385 ✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    Mx60 has worked great for me over the years. I am noticing the fan is starting to go out and I need to order a new one for it after about 5 years.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,768 admin
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    We used to hear more from Marc (of Rogue) here--But I imagine he has been very busy (or at least hope he has been very busy with his controller business).

    Last I heard (somebody called Marc) was that he was working on a higher voltage version of his controller--but no news yet that I have seen. Coming out with a new/upgraded product every couple years is pretty impressive--I have seen bigger vendors "coast" with their existing products for many years between major upgrades.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • inetdoginetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024
    Ralph Day wrote: »
    Wow Tony, what great service! I'm about 11km from the tower my external antenna is pointed to and I get nothing like that (3G supposed to be). Ping of 151ms, download of .56mbps just now. How close are you to your provider? There are towers all around here in southern Ontario, but your service kicks cheeks!

    http://www.ertyu.org/steven_nikkel/cancellsites.html

    Shows all the towers in Canada. Looks to be lots of towers along hwy 11 into Manitoba, but the map scale....

    I have a similar situation on Verizon 3G in a rural area. Signal strength is great and voice calls are fine most of the time, but ping times of over 10 seconds [!] at bad times and 100-200 ms at good times. Throughput ranges from 1MB/sec down to almost zero.
    My only conclusion is that the tower is just working continually at its bandwidth capacity and voice traffic is getting priority. Whenever the conventional internet provider in the area goes down (which is all too frequently) 3G data service rapidly goes to pot as users switch over. I also see issues when my link gets switched to a more distant tower because of capacity issues. (Signal strength suddenly drops without moving the phone as the indication of that.)
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • icarusicarus Solar Expert Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Rogue MPT-3024

    We are ~20 Kms from the tower. Mercifully, there are very few people that live out here, and the bulk of the traffic is from the highway. There are perhaps 20 people that live in the range of the tower, and few of them seem to use it for ISP. All told I am thrilled with the the service, especially compared to Xplornet Sat service. Better pings (by far) better throughput, much lower price per gig too. Not only that, I now have one bill for both the phone and ISP. Before it was ~$50 for the phone, plus ~$100 for the ISP. Now my bill averages (for both services, unlimited voice) is~ $60.

    Tony
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