What happens to our solar if the poles flip?

softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,800Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
Having read of the possibility, and the signs, of the north and south pole flipping. This seems to happen every few hundred thousand years or so....so it will happen again. Apparently there are several signs that the possibility is becoming more likely.  

The time period during which the poles the flipping would be pretty interesting I might think.

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2018/02/tyler-durden/the-earths-magnetic-field-is-shifting-poles-may-flip-this-could-get-bad/
First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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Comments

  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,611Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5 #2
    The power going off will be the least of our worries.   Hard radiation from the sun will ruin our day.

    “The dangers: devastating streams of particles from the sun, galactic cosmic rays, and enhanced ultraviolet B rays from a radiation-damaged ozone layer, to name just a few of the invisible forces that could harm or kill living creatures,” Michelle writes.

    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • MichaelKMichaelK Posts: 74Registered Users ✭✭
    We'll all have to relocate our panels to the north side of the roof.
    15 Renogy 300w panels,  Midnight 200 CC, 8 Trojan L16 batteries, Schneider XW6848 NA inverter, AC-Delco 6000w gen.
  • Wheelman55Wheelman55 Posts: 43Registered Users ✭✭
    Anther case for solar trackers :)
    Building Off-Grid in Terlingua, TX
  • Wbuffetjr1Wbuffetjr1 Posts: 78Registered Users ✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    The power going off will be the least of our worries.   Hard radiation from the sun will ruin our day.

    “The dangers: devastating streams of particles from the sun, galactic cosmic rays, and enhanced ultraviolet B rays from a radiation-damaged ozone layer, to name just a few of the invisible forces that could harm or kill living creatures,” Michelle writes.

    Should make everyone's arrays really put out some power!! 
  • mike_smike_s Posts: 42Registered Users ✭✭
    Your tinfoil hat will protect you.
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,800Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    mike_s said:
    Your tinfoil hat will protect you.
    This is generally considered to be a serious subject. Curious to try to "go funny" with it. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,215Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    AFAIK, the pole reversal process takes a long time (relative to human lifespan, but very fast in geological time). Although nobody knows when the next one will happen, there will be signs it's starting, and it could be hundreds or thousands of years before it weakens the protective magnetic field enough to wipe us out.

    Tesla might even be shipping in volume by then ;-)
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • HorseflyHorsefly Posts: 301Registered Users ✭✭✭
    Estragon said:
    AFAIK, the pole reversal process takes a long time (relative to human lifespan, but very fast in geological time). Although nobody knows when the next one will happen, there will be signs it's starting, and it could be hundreds or thousands of years before it weakens the protective magnetic field enough to wipe us out.

    This is kinda close to what I've read. The reversal itself will take between 1,000 and 10,000 years. Most of the doomsday predictions make it sound like it will happen instantly. Fact is, the problems that life on earth will have to deal with will be in the in-between stage, when the weakened and/or confused magnetic field (think of several small north and south magnetic poles, rather than one of each). During that time there will be increased exposure to solar radiation. Skin cancers will go up, and lots of the man-made satellites would be at risk of damage.

    The thing is, the time scale for all of this means there will be lots of opportunity for mankind to do things mitigate some of the issues. As a former engineer in a satellite company, I see opportunity!
    Off-grid cabin: 6 x Canadian Solar CSK-280M PV panels, Schneider XW-MPPT60-150 Charge Controller, Schneider CSW4024 Inverter/Charger, Schneider SCP, 4 x Vmax XTR12-155 12V, 155AH batteries in a 2x2 24V 310AH bank.
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,800Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    There is so much hysteria these days that it may be difficult to know which to take seriously. It seems as though almost all global events are curiously "overdue" now. Humans like to scare and be scared I think.

    A few examples:
    Yellowstone
    San Andreas
    Volcanoes on the Ring of Fire
    Pole Flip
    Global Warming/Cooling
    Etc....I'm pretty sure I will view another imminent disaster within the foreseeable future.


    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike_smike_s Posts: 42Registered Users ✭✭
    softdown said:
    mike_s said:
    Your tinfoil hat will protect you.
    This is generally considered to be a serious subject. Curious to try to "go funny" with it. 
    Huh? The only people who think this is a serious threat in our lifetimes get their info from conspiracy and prepper websites. They're "funny," but not funny "ha ha." There are more immediate concerns, like the Mayan calendar ending. Oh, wait.
  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 5,007Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Living in BC ,I am more concerned about the changes, or actually lack of change, in the daily weather , lots of clouds this year and little sun, but so far little precip. on the ground ....and it feels like it was yesterday the flames were licking at our forest an homes...

    After fires I would be concerned about  a Magnitude 9 or greater and /or the TSUNAMI danger that may follow... locally they have occured on a 300 yr cycle and it is now ~ 150 years delayed... Read about the Cascadia Fault and it's sisters to the N and South
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge, Hughes1100 Sat Modem
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • bill von novakbill von novak Posts: 721Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Living in BC ,I am more concerned about the changes, or actually lack of change, in the daily weather , lots of clouds this year and little sun, but so far little precip. on the ground ....and it feels like it was yesterday the flames were licking at our forest an homes...
    Yep.  Here in San Diego we've had exactly one day of rain this year, and no sign of any on the horizon.  It's going to be a tough year with that little amount of rain/snow.
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,800Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    mike_s said:
    softdown said:
    mike_s said:
    Your tinfoil hat will protect you.
    This is generally considered to be a serious subject. Curious to try to "go funny" with it. 
    Huh? The only people who think this is a serious threat in our lifetimes get their info from conspiracy and prepper websites. They're "funny," but not funny "ha ha." There are more immediate concerns, like the Mayan calendar ending. Oh, wait.
    I would ask that you refrain from responding to my posts. You might try reddit.com. The millennials over there are constantly trying to one up each other with adolescent responses to real world problems. 

    Perhaps I can find an ignore function. It has alluded me so far.... 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • petertearaipetertearai Posts: 298Solar Expert ✭✭✭
    if the north pole becomes the south pole . Would not the panel orientation stay the same .I thought the panel facing the south  in the norther hemisphere was to do with the earth's tilt . not the magnetic field .
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . victron battery monitor . 24 volts 450 ah surette batterys . off grid  holiday home 
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,348Super Moderators admin
    Panel orientation would remain the same... The definition of magnetic north may change. The poles may "fragment" into several migrating poles that eventually coalesce:at a new location(s).

    How much radiation would increase on the surface of the earth--Not sure.

    But in any case, it will probably take several thousands of years (or more) for this all to happen.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,800Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    I have watched a couple shows about this possibility. I don't think the threat was really on the radar screen until a couple decades ago. Apparently there are strange anomalies off of the coast of Brazil that may have initiated further studies. 

    According to the last show, they possess scientific proof of previous pole flips. It has been a few years now and I seem to forget the details of this proof. It seemed entirely plausible while viewing.

    Perhaps I am trying to understand why so many people are confused about their irrefutable biology. There is something very strange going on but thats another subject.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,348Super Moderators admin
    edited February 7 #18
    The pole flips have been known by people for over 50 years:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal (read link for lots of interesting details and discussion)

    And, to date, nobody knows for sure, but it appears that day to day biology will not be greatly affected (no apparent mass extinctions during a reversal, etc.). And is there are secondary effects that may mitigate the "loss" of the earth's magnetic field:

    Shortly after the first geomagnetic polarity time scales were produced, scientists began exploring the possibility that reversals could be linked to extinctions. Most such proposals rest on the assumption that the Earth's magnetic field would be much weaker during reversals. Possibly the first such hypothesis was that high energy particles trapped in the Van Allen radiation belt could be liberated and bombard the Earth.[37][38] Detailed calculations confirm that if the Earth's dipole field disappeared entirely (leaving the quadrupole and higher components), most of the atmosphere would become accessible to high energy particles, but would act as a barrier to them, and cosmic ray collisions would produce secondary radiation of beryllium-10 or chlorine-36. An increase of beryllium-10 was noted in a 2012 German study showing a peak of beryllium-10 in Greenland ice cores during a brief complete reversal 41,000 years ago which led to the magnetic field strength dropping to an estimated 5% of normal during the reversal.[2] There is evidence that this occurs both during secular variation[39][40] and during reversals.[41][42]

    Another hypothesis by McCormac and Evans assumes that the Earth's field disappears entirely during reversals.[43] They argue that the atmosphere of Mars may have been eroded away by the solar wind because it had no magnetic field to protect it. They predict that ions would be stripped away from Earth's atmosphere above 100 km. However, paleointensity measurements show that the magnetic field has not disappeared during reversals. Based on paleointensity data for the last 800,000 years,[44] the magnetopause is still estimated to have been at about 3 Earth radii during the Brunhes-Matuyama reversal.[37] Even if the internal magnetic field did disappear, the solar wind can induce a magnetic field in the Earth's ionosphere sufficient to shield the surface from energetic particles.[45]

    Hypotheses have also been advanced linking reversals to mass extinctions.[46] Many such arguments were based on an apparent periodicity in the rate of reversals; more careful analyses show that the reversal record is not periodic.[16] It may be, however, that the ends of superchrons have caused vigorous convection leading to widespread volcanism, and that the subsequent airborne ash caused extinctions.[47]

    Tests of correlations between extinctions and reversals are difficult for a number of reasons. Larger animals are too scarce in the fossil record for good statistics, so paleontologists have analyzed microfossil extinctions. Even microfossil data can be unreliable if there are hiatuses in the fossil record. It can appear that the extinction occurs at the end of a polarity interval when the rest of that polarity interval was simply eroded away.[21] Statistical analysis shows no evidence for a correlation between reversals and extinctions.[48][37]

    Will a reversal/low field strength affect our technologies--Compasses may not be very useful, satellites may need extra shielding... But none of the primary effects of such change will have a material effect on our solar systems. Secondary effects (shipping problems, possible food/weather variations affecting humans, etc.) may occur... Or changes may occur so slowly that generation by generation nobody will notice the gradual changes in their (human) lifetimes.

    Today, we use GPS (global positioning system) based on satellite for most of our navigation, and don't even need a compass. And small/cheap inertial navigation systems are used in cheap drones... I think that, given the time scale, most of the "major" issues will be solved without much disruption (decades to address even rapidly changing earth's magnetic field).

    There are human caused issues (wars, famine, epidemics, changes in government) and non-sustainable national spending (see Venezuela for most recent example) where things can become very difficult for a population.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,348Super Moderators admin
    And don't ignore the power of humor to bring up and move discussions forward of "difficult". Whether it is "gallows" humor (we are all going to die), to humor about possible solutions (tin foil hats to reduce radiation exposure to human heads)--Don't let it stop a open and honest discussion.

    We all have our own ways of addressing the unavoidable.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,800Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    You wear a lot of hats BB. 

    While the pole flips may well have been known of for 50 years, I don't think it was entirely widespread knowledge until more recently.

    We seem to be pretty sure that something acted to strip away the magnetic shielding of Mars. My understanding is that our magnetic shielding is an absolute requisite for life on earth as we know it. Perhaps one of the shows postulated that a pole flip acted as a catalyst for losing the magnetic shield of Mars.

    We think Mars is scary? Take a close look at Venus. Shiver me timbers! Apparently Venus also lost its shielding at some point in time. Only Russia has managed to send back data from a Venus landing. Something our "cheerleaders" always overlook. Landing on Venus is a major achievement.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,348Super Moderators admin
    It is a common saying that many people think history started when they were born... The understanding about magnetic field changing was (more or less) in conjunction with understanding the (up to then, missing driving mechanics for) Continental Drift Theory (sea floor spreading, via magma in the mid-ocean ridges and as the magma hardened, the rock took on the local magnetic field at the time)(around when I was born--my starting point for history :) the later 1950's ):

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_drift

    Now known as Plate Tectonics:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics

    Which was confirmed at (pretty much) the same time as earth's magnetic field flux reversals (which can be used to determine ages of rock formations and such).

    Regarding what would happen to the earth if the magnetic field was lost--Apparently it would take billion(s?) of years, of lost magnetic field, to lose as much as Mars did (no field, 1/3rd the gravity) (all guesswork/theory at this point).

    Venus does have a (weaker?) solar induced magnetic field:

    https://www.astrobio.net/also-in-news/a-magnetic-surprise-from-venus/

    Did this cause the loss of water from? Not sure anyone knows. The present atmosphere is mostly CO2 at 90x earth's sea level pressure (some believe that the high surface temperatures are due to "green house effect"--I believe that it is the normal scaling of atmospheric pressure--The higher the surface pressure, the hotter the surface--Not due to CO2).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • oil pan 4oil pan 4 Posts: 669Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Most people don't even prepare for the stuff we know is going to happen. When some one talks about a hurrcane hitting Florida or the gulf Coast or an earth quake hitting the west coast, that's' just crazy pepper talk too. Most people be like "not going to happen to me", put their fingers in their ears and walk away going "lalalalallal". That' the general consensus of the population.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,348Super Moderators admin
    Or wait for the "government" to come save them...

    The standard answer is to have a 3 day supply of water/food/medication/fuel/lights/batteries for radio/etc. ... Might work out OK with local scale disasters in a populated area (tornado, west coast earthquakes, etc.).

    Get a good ice storm across the north east, hurricanes eastern/south eastern--Probably better to have 1-2 weeks of supplies minimum.

    And for rural areas (and islands like Puerto Rico, Caribbean, etc.)--Several months of supplies and fuel may not be enough.

    West coast earthquakes are, in general, fairly local affairs--And because of the propagation of Shear and Pressure Waves, we don't get a large area of mass destruction--More likely small pockets that are scattered around the region. We have "young" basalt rocks that are fairly "elastic" and dampen out the energy as the P&S waves propagate from the fault. Go a few blocks or a mile from major destruction to everything pretty much OK.

    In the eastern US, they have "old rock" that rings like a bell and wave propagate very well.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Madrid_Seismic_Zone
    In a report filed in November 2008, the U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency warned that a serious earthquake in the New Madrid Seismic Zone could result in "the highest economic losses due to a natural disaster in the United States," further predicting "widespread and catastrophic" damage across Alabama, Arkansas, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas, and particularly Tennessee, where a 7.7 magnitude quake or greater would cause damage to tens of thousands of structures affecting water distribution, transportation systems, and other vital infrastructure.[21] The earthquake is expected to also result in many thousands of fatalities, with more than 4,000 of the fatalities expected in Memphis alone.
    ...

    The lack of apparent land movement along the New Madrid fault system has long puzzled scientists. In 2009, two studies based on eight years of GPS measurements indicated that the faults were moving at no more than 0.2 millimeters (0.0079 in) a year.[25] This contrasts to the rate of slip on the San Andreas Fault, which averages up to 37 mm (1.5 in) a year across California.[26]

    On March 13, 2009, a research group based out of Northwestern University and Purdue University, funded by the United States Geological Survey, reported in the journal Science and in other journals that the New Madrid system may be "shutting down" and that tectonic stress may now be accumulating elsewhere.[25] Seth Stein, the leader of the research group, published these views in a book, Disaster Deferred, in 2008. Although some of these ideas have gained some amount of acceptance among researchers, they have not been accepted by the National Earthquake Prediction Evaluation Council, which advises the USGS.[27]

    In the end, nobody really knows... On the west coast, newer construction and past (recent) major earthquakes have knocked down brick and masonry buildings, and stronger building codes designed for earthquake survival (retrofitted buildings, bridges, water systems, and dams, etc.) have (hopefully) reduced exposure to damage out here.

    Ignoring potential disasters (natural and man-made)--It is what humans are good at.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • oil pan 4oil pan 4 Posts: 669Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    The government has millions of body bags and family size caskets in inventory.
    That pretty much sums up their plans.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,630Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    My favorite book on this is "Lights out" by Ted Koppel. You can find the spoken version by Ted himself in your public library or on Amazon. It is a really nice way to hear his wisdom from the research he did.

    The short take is "we are so doomed", and if you live remote, become a Mormon as they are the only ones who even have a chance long term, if this doom and mayhem is widespread.

    Cheery thoughts! At least it is Friday!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • mike95490mike95490 Posts: 7,611Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    ......
    Cheery thoughts! At least it is Friday!
    And the goverment is closed, so we are safe !  No wait, it's open again, we're doomed I say, doomed !
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • bill von novakbill von novak Posts: 721Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    softdown said:
    You wear a lot of hats BB. 

    While the pole flips may well have been known of for 50 years, I don't think it was entirely widespread knowledge until more recently.

    We seem to be pretty sure that something acted to strip away the magnetic shielding of Mars. My understanding is that our magnetic shielding is an absolute requisite for life on earth as we know it. Perhaps one of the shows postulated that a pole flip acted as a catalyst for losing the magnetic shield of Mars.

    We think Mars is scary? Take a close look at Venus. Shiver me timbers! Apparently Venus also lost its shielding at some point in time. Only Russia has managed to send back data from a Venus landing. Something our "cheerleaders" always overlook. Landing on Venus is a major achievement.
    I think it's been pretty well known.  They mentioned it in my geology class about a hundred years ago.  (Apparently magnetic domains in lava orient to the existing magnetic field, then retain that orientation when the field flips later.)

    It's generally a mistake to compare the Earth to another planet and consider just one variable.  For example, our magnetic field comes from our molten core; the circulation of conductive material (driven by convection and a few other forces) gives rise to the field, and that circulation isn't going away any time soon.  In other words, it may change but won't go away.

    BTW the problem with Venus is that it has too _much_ atmosphere; the greenhouse effect there is so bad that the surface temperatures could melt lead. 

    But overall even the worst case (a slow transition of magnetic north to the southern hemisphere) wouldn't affect us too much.  We'd see a slight increase in radiation (mainly cosmic particles that get lower in the atmosphere) but not anything cataclysmic.
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,630Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    And you could still use a sextant and navigate by the stars until they correct the GPS algorithms. Hopefully the government will have some money to contract LMA or Boeing and would not try and send this to congress for a vote....

    More doom I know but might be fun to get my Dad's WW2 sextant out of the box. I used it for a bit and he used it in the battle for Leyte Gulf where he was Kamikazed.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail [email protected]

  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,348Super Moderators admin
    edited February 10 #29
    Longer term may be resurrecting Loran C. Uses a few (land based) high powered lower frequency transmitters to cover a "region".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LORAN-C

    Much more "reliable" than GPS (low power microwave satellite which is very easy to jam and spoof--Military is encrypted so they can be jammed but not necessarily spoofed as easily--I guess).

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,800Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10 #30
    My favorite book on this is "Lights out" by Ted Koppel. You can find the spoken version by Ted himself in your public library or on Amazon. It is a really nice way to hear his wisdom from the research he did.

    The short take is "we are so doomed", and if you live remote, become a Mormon as they are the only ones who even have a chance long term, if this doom and mayhem is widespread.

    Cheery thoughts! At least it is Friday!
    From "Lights Out" - "Jeh Johnson, secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, who when asked how the country would respond to a collapse of the grid, said "Oh, I'm sure FEMA has the capability to bring in backup transformers." As Koppel so compellingly describes, we not only don't have sufficient spare transformers lying around, we don't even have the infrastructure to deliver them in a timely manner "

    How do we wind up with so many idiots in charge? Such people aren't qualified to manage a Pizza Hut. This idiot is/was the secretary for Homeland Security? Kind of reminds me of when we elected W. and company "Fool me once....."

    Almost everybody in this thread is correct. People either have their head buried in the sand or they are being made fun of by the never ending legions of ostriches. Everybody that I know thinks I will somehow take of them if the SHTF. Well....I probably would not...[not really for this world wide forum. -BB] if they trespass. Then again....maybe [not here.] I sure can't take care of everybody that thinks that I will.

    At least our Sec of Defense is not a pretty boy.....pretty sure of that one. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,800Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    ......
    Cheery thoughts! At least it is Friday!
    And the goverment is closed, so we are safe !  No wait, it's open again, we're doomed I say, doomed.
    Nothing scares me more than the thought of the government doing government things after a really huge disaster. After Katrina they went around collecting guns. Then the burglars had an easy time of it. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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