Tariff on Chinese panels........

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  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,593Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    I mostly agree. The thing is there's a latent anti-american sentiment lurking in Canada, Mexico, and much of Europe. It's nothing new, it's been there for a long time, but what worries me a bit is what happens if that toothpaste gets out of the tube?
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  • bill von novakbill von novak Posts: 741Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Estragon said:
    I mostly agree. The thing is there's a latent anti-american sentiment lurking in Canada, Mexico, and much of Europe. It's nothing new, it's been there for a long time, but what worries me a bit is what happens if that toothpaste gets out of the tube?
    Then the isolationists have all the ammunition they need to escalate the trade war.
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,593Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    > @bill von novak said:
    > Estragon said:
    >
    >
    > I mostly agree. The thing is there's a latent anti-american sentiment lurking in Canada, Mexico, and much of Europe. It's nothing new, it's been there for a long time, but what worries me a bit is what happens if that toothpaste gets out of the tube?
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Then the isolationists have all the ammunition they need to escalate the trade war.

    I'm afraid you may be right.
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  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,882Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 12 #35
    Free trade is not always fair trade. I think the Dairy tariffs that Canada charges are the reason that Dennis Rodman and the President have decided it will be easier with North Korea  :) :)

    I dislike tariffs immensely and so I am hoping this all fades out by our November election. I think Larry Kudlow will advise that if he does not have another heart attack. The Dairy thing with you folks is pretty bogus but there is always a point no matter what side you are on.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
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  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 5,083Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    The news a couple of nights ago had this factoid: 
    ''Wisconsin produces more milk than ALL  Canadian producers''... one reason for our supply management policy.... 

    There is a huge imbalance in the economies of scale.

    I dislike paying more $$ for a similar product but food security, pardon the pun, trumps all for me...

    end of political comment


     
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  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,593Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    I can see both sides of the supply management thing, but the reality is dairy is subject to various forms of protectionism in most countries in the world, including the US (quota system and licence fees in lieu of tarriffs).

    The biggest issue for US dairy is dropping domestic demand, with growing demand for substitutes (eg soy or almond milk) along with rising yields. With other world markets unavailable to the US, the entire surplus would wipe out the small Canadian industry.

    Regardless of my opinion on the merits of supply management, throwing the dairy industry under the bus is simply not possible politically in Canada. That said, there may be room for a bit of opening, along the lines of CETA opening, if we can get some grown-ups back in the room :smile:
    Off-grid.  
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  • BB.BB. Posts: 27,681Super Moderators admin
    The grownups have gotten us here.

    The diplomates are not agents of change.

    Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Posts: 4,660Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 14 #39
    I think we are in a 'biggest kid in the sand box' situation now.  If someone knew something about "The Art of the Deal" then they would understand that you don't just tear up agreements with everyone. It will just make everyone feel like they are native Americans...

    ...and can you really trust someone who continually reneges on deals, Some of which even if you think were bad deals much of the value was gained by the person you made the deal with up front and you just forfeit you advantage over time (Iran Nuke deal, we released hold on their money, then said we don't like the deal, don't worry about those pesky nuclear inspections...)

    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,593Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    "Go out and break things" works great in business, international relations, I'm not so sure. I guess we're going to find out.
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  • bill von novakbill von novak Posts: 741Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Free trade is not always fair trade. I think the Dairy tariffs that Canada charges are the reason that Dennis Rodman and the President have decided it will be easier with North Korea  :) :)
    Yep.  Canadians are mad at us for subsidizing dairy farmers here in the US, because then we can out-compete their farmers.  So they have a 270% tariff on some dairy products if we ship more than we agreed to in the NAFTA agreement.  (If we keep to the limit, no tariff.)

    The US is mad at Canada for subsidizing loggers in Canada, because then they can out-compete our less subsidized loggers.  (And they have a ton more wood than we do.) So we put a tariff on their wood.

    It would be great if both places dropped both their tariffs and their subsidies; trade would improve and everyone would save money.  Not going to happen, unfortunately.



  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,882Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    I was talking to Schneider Burnaby yesterday about an electronic field test I am performing. One of the guys said "we probably will put a tariff on US single malt Bourbon and then you will put a tariff on our blended whiskey. I told them I would pay the tariff on blended whiskey just make sure to not interrupt the supply ;)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
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  • mcgivormcgivor Posts: 2,037Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Either way it would probably be more expensive in Canada despite originating in Canada.
      1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider 150 60 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 8×T105 GC 24V nominal 

  • mcgivormcgivor Posts: 2,037Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    The fundemental problem with free trade agreements is that all partners should be on a level playing field, by this I mean the social systems, regarding  health care,  unemployment insurance, social welfare and taxation should be identical, without parity the free trade is nothing more than a convince for the richer nation to take advantage of the poorer. The EU was initially founded on these principles, but later compromised to include lesser members with disastrous results. In the case of NAFTA, Canada is the smallest player, population wise, but not the poorest, the US economy is 10× the size of Canada and Canada should have realized thet sleeping with someone 10× your size could result in the partner rolling over and squashing you.
      1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider 150 60 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 8×T105 GC 24V nominal 

  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,882Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Kind of like one big world with the United Nations in charge. No border, just come and go. Might as well take away the people's money who have too much and give it to the ones who do not like working. History should not be taught about how some countries gave their most precious resource for freedom of others.

    I don't think that will sell in Canada and I know it won't here!
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
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  • westbranchwestbranch Posts: 5,083Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16 #46
    And the Elephant really squealed when the tables were turned in the 1980's when the ongoing dispute, from the 1820's,https://lop.parl.ca/content/lop/ResearchPublications/tips/tip134-e.htm, boiled up again.

    The main issue stems from the difference of land ownership in each jurisdiction, Canada is primarily owned by the Crown ( Government) while the US is mainly private, with the dregs left to Government in the form of Parks, and other reserves.

    When you have marked disparities in the supply of one commodity you will have price differences.  Cases in point are Wisconsin and Milk. Vs BC and a few other Provinces and  Softwood Lumber. The Crown owns so much timbered land that has not been cut once and the Timber tenures we issue require a minimum and max. volume that is to be harvested yearly,  that its value ,here, is much lower than found in the states, where a private land owner usually waits for a rise in price before putting his timber on the market. BTW,  some of the largest timbered land holdings on both sides of the border are held by PENSION Plans! and you know what their main objective is...

    I have lost track of the total number of US litigation moves happened in my 32+ years as a Registered Forester and after I retired.  Too many to count....
    Here are some more links for those interested


    Edit (1 week)ADD: from Sept. 2005,
    BOLD added

    Also later disputes were also found to favour Canada...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge, Hughes1100 Sat Modem
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
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  • softdownsoftdown Posts: 1,839Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Trade wars seem to be heating up. Get ready for higher prices...

    Everybody has been feeding from Uncle Sams troughs. Something had to be done but I suspect it is far too late. Plus the nefarious history of tariffs. 

    I don't see Canada and Germany as the problem though. Most everything I pick up seems to say Made In China. We can compete with Canada and Germany. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 165(?) watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,593Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    Interesting how words matter. "Feeding at Uncle Sams troughs". By definition, an overall trade deficit means the world sends more goods and services to the US than the US sends in return.

    It can be a problem (especially if the deficit is in consumption goods), or not (if the deficit is in capital goods or otherwise of longer-term benefit).

    There are also lots of problems with how the deficit is defined and measured. A significant example is defense, in which the US "exports" far more "defense services" than it "imports".

    The US could eliminate the foreign "feeding at the trough" trade deficit tomorrow if it wanted. Simply capture US foreign defense spending as the export it is.
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  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Posts: 3,882Solar Expert ✭✭✭✭
    Call it an export and then cut drastically the money we spend defending the scoundrels of the world. This sounds good to my libertarian side.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
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  • EstragonEstragon Posts: 2,593Registered Users ✭✭✭✭
    Mine too :smile:

    Not likely to happen though.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
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