Initial system commissioning, general best practices

caleb
caleb Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭
This is a new system.  Just got everything hooked-up and now I'm looking to make sure I've got everything configured correctly.  Here's my basic setup (if it helps/matters):

3 X 265W Kyocera Panels
4 X S550 Surrette batteries (setup as 24v)
1 X Flexpower One (3524A)

My system didn't come with any documentation, so I'm not sure if there's supposed to be a commissioning procedure or what.  I read through their Quick-Start guide and it doesn't tell me what I need to do to "quickly get started".  It showed where the batteries hookup, where the pv array hookup and where the AC out hooks up.  Got all that done.  Now I'm wondering if I need to do special provisioning of the batteries (do I need to bulk, float, absorb, etc)?  I have no idea what each of those mean.  I've read through the Flexmax 80 manual as well as the Mate3 manual and it certainly says how to do each, but nothing about initial setup.  Or maybe it's smart enough to automatically do this on it's own?  I'm also not looking for how to do it specifically on my system (I'll figure that out if I know what I need to do).  I'm more just looking for general best practices, I would hate to get only a year or two out of these batteries due to something dumb I did on initial setup (I'm sure that will happen anyways, but I'd like to at least try to avoid it :) )

Hope this is the correct forum for this, it seems pretty beginner-ish to me. :smiley:

Comments

  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,731 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Measure DC voltages before turning on any circuit breakers. Look for correct polarity and reasonable voltages,
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • MichaelK
    MichaelK Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭✭
    Assuming your S550 batteries have a 428 amp-hour capacity, your panel wattage looks a little on the low side.  Assuming you have 265watts X 3 panels=795 watts, then if charging at 29.6 volts, you'll be charging with about 27 amps max. (795watts/29.6V=26.9amps).  That falls below the C/12 rule that most people follow.  If you can add one more panel, that would give you 35.8 amps of charging current (265X4)/29.6=35.8)  Buy three more of those panels and your output would be almost 54 amps, which would bring you close to C/8.

    Depending on your usage, just three panels might be hard-pressed to keep batteries that large fully charged.
    System 1) 15 Renogy 300w + 4 250W Astronergy panels,  Midnight 200 CC, 8 Trojan L16 bat., Schneider XW6848 NA inverter, AC-Delco 6000w gen.
    System 2) 8 YingLi 250W panels, Midnight 200CC, three 8V Rolls batteries, Schneider Conext 4024 inverter (workshop)
  • caleb
    caleb Registered Users Posts: 25 ✭✭
    edited September 2017 #4
    Thanks, I did go through and measure all my voltages and polarity (twice), all was correct (25.2V).  

    I actually do have three more panels but was holding off installing them.  Reason being, this is at a weekend every other week cabin with minimal power requirements (max, currently just under 800Wh per day), so there should be plenty of recovery time.  I'm also planning to add a hydro turbine (I know most on here are not too fond of them) that will be used in conjunction with the solar.  This system is replacing an existing "solar system" that's using automotive deep cycles being charged by a 35W trickle panel.  I bought the cabin with it installed.  It takes care of things, really, probably 95% of the time.  So this is a huge upgrade and really is way overkill for what I need.  I figured I didn't mind spending the money so I went a little overkill for it.
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Like Dave says, check connections for polarity, etc before closing breakers. Always close the battery to controller breaker first to let the CC boot up with stable voltage source, then close PV breakers.

    I think Surrette has commissioning, charging, and maintenence docs on their website. Definitely check them out as I think some of their recommended voltages are on the high side compared to some others.

    It sometimes takes a while to get all the parameters dialled in properly for your particular charge/discharge patterns. Try to monitor closely at first, and make notes of SGs, settings, etc. Lots of folks here to answer questions as they arise.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The charging stages are important to understand.

    Bulk is the first stage. The controller will send all the available current from the panels to the batteries (and any running loads). Voltage will slowly rise to the absorb setpoint (likely 28-29v, +/- temperature compensation). Depending on battery state of charge, loads, available sun, etc., this could take from a few minutes to several hours. There are no settings for bulk per se. You can limit current for this stage, but with the amount of pv you have for your bank, it shouldn't be an issue. If anything, current might be on the low side, especially if you have any loads running during bulk.

    Absorb is the stage after the absorb setpoint is hit, and usually suggest the bank is around 80% full. The CC will hold the voltage at the setpoint while current slowly tapers off as the bank gets closer to fully charged. It will normally take around 2-3 hrs to get to nearly full, at which point current should be down to about 1% of capacity or about 3-4a for your bank. This stage is ended either by expiry of a time setting (eg. 3hrs), or by an end-amp setting (eg. 3a) in the controller.

    Float lets voltage drop to a level that keeps the bank charged, but doesn't do much actual charging. Voltage is likely around 26.2v. This stage lasts indefinitely (until the sun goes down).
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe Rolls/Surrette, recommend  a higher charging voltage than other manufacturers. It would be good to set the parameters that the manufacturers suggest.

    Normally commissioning a new system with flooded batteries, I do an Equalizing charge and record the Specific Gravities of each cell.

    I understand what you are saying but would suggest going ahead and hooking up the additional panels or hydro (I LOVE Hydro! It's just rare to have enough land and flowing water with enough head) Chronic under charging kills many systems.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with Photowhit. If you have extra panels, by all means use them. I have no empirical evidence, but I've read that plates in batteries are "formed" better by initially drawing them down deeply (~50%) and charging with highish (C/5) current.

    I wish I had the head and flow for hydro. I suspect most of the resistance to hydro (or wind) isn't so much that we don't like it, but it often doesn't perform as expected because the conditions weren't really there to do it in the first place. If I had the right conditions, I'd do ROR hydro or wind in a NY second.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • petertearai
    petertearai Solar Expert Posts: 471 ✭✭✭✭
    Yep definitely install all your pv you have to start with . Hydro is great ...24 hours a day with a continuous output  . Much superior to wind . IMHO .Better than pv except pv has no moving parts 
    2225 wattts pv . Outback 2kw  fxr pure sine inverter . fm80 charge controller . Mate 3. victron battery monitor . 24 volts  in 2 volt Shoto lead carbon extreme batterys. off grid  holiday home 
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't use Rolls/Serrette batteries, but had heard about the higher charging regime here. I had a minute and looked up a manual for you;
    http://www.rollsbattery.com/wp-content/uploads/manuals/Rolls_Battery_Manual.pdf



    Looks like they also have a different charge for batteries with infrequent cycling/UPS.

    They also recommend a charging rate of;
          "Charging Current (Amps) (recommended 10% to 20% of C20 discharge rate)"
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.