circuit breakers for best match in combiner box

Have been using the following DC Circuit Breakers(10 total) in combiner box for my off grid solar system successfully for past 12 years.
My System: 20 SQ-175 Shell panels in groups of 2 wired to combiner box, then down to 2 MX 60 charge controllers, then to large 48V lead acid battery bank(16 batteries total, with 5-8 years max life left, hopefully).
Existing rating label on existing DC circuit breakers:
9A  CURVE U2
HY-MAG QY-N10-1(13)
80V DC
10kA
UL489A
Solar Panel Specification:
Shell SQ175-PC, 175 Watt 24V PowerMax Ultra Solar Panel
Electrical Specifications for Panel:
Rated Power: 175 Watts
Peak Power: 175 Watts
Module Efficiency: 13.3%
Max System Voltage: 600 Volts (UL); 715 Volts (TUV)
Peak Power Voltage: 35.4 Volts
Peak Power Current: 4.95 Amps
Open Circuit Voltage: 44.6 Volts

I want to duplicate or make a separate system by adding same type/amount of panels(20) in groups of 2, to my garage roof. Bought 20(Shell SQ-175 panels with roof mounts) from friend for very little, who upgraded recently to higher capacity panels. All panels produce full power at ideal angle & temperature setting.
Now, or more than 10 years after installing above system I found similar breakers for sale, but with a higher listed rating:
MNEPV 150V, 10A  Solar Circuit Breakers available for sale now
My question is.....Can I use these higher rated breakers? Will they cause a trip or maybe not be sensitive enough?
I don't understand this very well and will appreciate any advice or guidance.
thank you

Comments

  • mcgivormcgivor Registered Users Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭✭
    The  maximum voltage rating is irrelevant to the function, as long as it's not exceeded, the gauge of the wire from the panels determines the maximum fuse/breaker size, on most panels there is a label on the back stating this.
      1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider 150 60 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 8×T105 GC 24V nominal 

  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi sierrasolar,

    Have used 9A and 10A breakers (both Outback and MidNite MNEPV)   breakers with the Shell SQ175 PVs,  either current rating will be fine.

    The Maximum Fuse Size rating of those SQ175 PVs is 20 A,  so an MNEPV breaker that is rated between 7A and 20A should be OK,  but would probably run a 10A breaker:
    ftp://74.121.200.53/MultiMedia/EVEREST_MM/Images/Product Spec PDF/Product Specs from Cam/Solar Panels/SQ-175.PDF

    IMO those Shell PVs are a very good module.

    FWIW,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • sierrasolarsierrasolar Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭
    Thanks for the explanation. When I bought & installed the system 12 years ago I followed basic tech advice from sales people who helped me plan system for my needs. So I never fully grasped all the technical reasons for my remote Outback system design, but it worked just fine with never a down day. I have 2 MX 60's & 2 Outback Power VFX3648 Vented off Grid Inverters 3600W 48VDC powering a 16 battery- Rolls Surrrette battery bank.

    I recall getting great advice here from people like: Crewzer, Niel, and others who were active 12 years back in time on this forum. Yes, those Shell panels were/are performing very well at my remote mountain location zip 93518. I will admit that their advice of 10 to 13 strings(Shell SQ-175 panels) was very accurate as the equalization process for my battery bank(16 total 6=CS-25PS Amp Hour)as time went on required more power than the initial 18 panels I could afford at that time. Was able to equalize only on very cold sunny days.

    I need this second system to prepare for a backup in case primary fails as well as having spare power to maybe charge future electric car, when they become more affordable, and not take away from existing power supply. Am very amazed at how solar panel prices have dropped since then!

     I'm happy to learn that a 10A breaker will work, as I discovered and will now buy a 10 pack of these breakers on sale for a great price. The 9A run about $12 each.

    Thank you again for continuing great tradition of helpful advice on this board. I went a little longer in my reply but just wanted to pass on my experience & information that others might find helpful.
    Stan                                                                                                                    

  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi sierrasolar,

    Thanks for the added detail on your system.

    I bought 24 SQ-175s initially,  put up 12,   added six more,  then 12 additional for ten strings of three on one system here.

    The 12 PV system was adequate,  until deciding to A/C the power room,   and later,   the cabin.

    Have some SolarWorld PVs on another cabin system,   and some in storage for additions to the main system.

    YES,  PV prices sure have come down  --  paid about $4.50 delivered for the first group of 175s.   They are very well-built.   But am very happy that high quality PVs are SO inexpensive now.

    Is it fair to assume that the Surrettes on your system are about 12 years old?   The Surrettes in use here are in their 12th year.  Their efficiency is a bit less now,  but they seem to be still going strong.

    It is a little more difficult to EQ from PVs these days,  due to reduced efficiencies,   AND A/C loads during the EQ!

    YES,   this is a very good Forum.   Almost without exception,  the decorum and willingness of members to try to provide meaningful,   accurate information,   and the moderation of the primary (almost the only) Moderator (BB Bill),  is also stellar!

    Good Luck with the upgrade,  and keep cool! Thanks,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • sierrasolarsierrasolar Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭
    First I want to make a correction regarding my battery bank size description previous in message.
    Rolls Surrette 6-CS-21PS Flooded Deep Cycle Battery, 6V, 683Ah....... (Not 25PS)

    We share the same great panels, and obviously you have a lot more. But then as you describe, they are necessary for the air conditioning. I installed central air when building home with separate dedicated circuit connected to 12K+ propane generator.

    Yes, my batteries have been in use for 12 years and in hot weather, or now, they require a cup of filtered water per well each month.
    In winter or colder months: dec-jan-feb: I add same amount about every 2 months, and usually equalize them then. Hope they make it to 20 years. The batteries also don't show any noticeable weakness. But then, everything in our home is energy efficient with just the refrigerator/freezer drawing most amps. I oversized the battery bank system to hopefully gain the max life possible.

    Thanks, and yes it is way too hot here now, but home is well insulated and we have dual pane windows/ blinds closed during daytime hot weather. Also designed wrap around open patio on south/west side which keeps sun off stucco wall. Finally we can rely on the regular evening mountain breeze which gradually cools down home and brings temperature to the 70's for the night. Also no humidity.
    Stan






  • SolraySolray Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭
    Batteries in hot climates will never last 20 years. Even just storing them in heat will limit their lives.
  • sierrasolarsierrasolar Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭

    The battery bank is in cool location, sheltered from Summer heat(insulated/ventilated cement bunker below ground) so not much affected by any extreme swings in outdoor temperature during Seasons.
    I'll post back in 8 years and report if my batteries & or myself are still in service.
    .
    Rolls Surrette Lead Acid Battery - 6V, 683Ah (6 CS 21P)
    From Rolls Surrette's 5000 series, the 6CS21P is a 6-volt battery rated at 683 amp-hours @ 20-hour rate (963
    amp-hours @ 100 amp-hour rate). Using the famous Surrette CS plate, this battery offers higher capacity and
    less watering due to fewer cells per string. The CS plate has been in service for over 20 years and Surrette
    knows exactly what to expect from batteries using these plates. The CS plate batteries have a reputation of 15
    -20 years expected life. Dual-container design.

    I have been having positive results-12 years so far.
    An older topic gave great advice by members(some still active) covering the pros and cons of the Rolls Surrette brand
    on this discussion board in depth in February 2014 so not necessary to repeat here.



  • SolraySolray Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭
    It's good that your batteries are kept at 70 degrees that will help them last longer.
    A brand is just a printed label, don't place too much stock in it, any brand can make a bad product or have a lemon.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭✭

    Hi sierrasolar,

    Surrette does make very good batteries,  particularly the 5000 series that we both are using.

    Your battery bunker/Root Cellar approach is a very good one.   Had hoped to be able to do that here when considering location of the cabin and shop,  but just could not make it work with the topology  --  not enough flat land,  and quite rocky.    So,  it is A/C in the power rooms,  which works well.

    You must be taking good care of your batteries to have them doing this well over this period of time.   Keep up the good work!

    Have used and recommended Surrette batteries for a number of years,   and  have not seen an issue with them,  although some people simply do not pay attention to their systems until the "lights go off",   even at that do not personally know anyone who has been able to ruin a set of Surrettes that were still in Warranty.   Some have tried fairly diligently,  however.

    For the uninformed,  here is the Data Sheet on the Surrette 6CS21s:
    https://www.solar-electric.com/lib/wind-sun/6CS21PS.pdf

    20 years is a long run for most off-grid batteries,  but is one buys quality batteries,  does not abuse them,  but DOES maintain them,  20 years is not out of the question.

    Solaray;
    I did not see sierrasolar mention that the 6CS21s  " are kept at 70 degrees".  Cooler is generally better,   especially for Flooded batteries. 

    Sweeping generalizations can be misleading to others,   particularly when they are not accurate..    These are not always an indicator of  vast experience or knowledge of those making those statements.

    Also,   the number op Comments that one makes, is often not an indication of knowledge,   frequently they are just an  exercise in tedium.

    Making useful comments,  sparingly,   is a good trait on this and most other Forums,   IMO.

    FWIW,   Thanks,   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • VicVic Solar Expert Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭✭
    Solray said:
    Yep, you are right, saying they are kept at XX degrees is always better that saying they are kept cool, cool for a battery is 70 degrees. :)
    Cool for AZ might be 95 degrees. Cool in North Dakota might be -27 degrees. Everyone's experience with 'cool' is different.

    2,744 posts is an awful lot.
    Participation is good for a forum like this. Socratic disscussion is even better.

    As for brand names, I generally ignore them and buy what is the best product at the time. Research is crucial and hands on testing is the best research for many things. Even a great company can start making sub-par products if there is a change of direction in management and the factors governing how decisions are made change over time. Addressograph and Apple are a couple that come to mind.


    Hello ray/Lumisol,  or whatever ..,

    Lead Acid batteries need to be kept cool.   If I could,   I would try to keep MY FLAs around 50 degrees F.  The average temperature over a one-year period is around 60 F ...   good enough for me.

    Disagree with your stated temperature range ...   seems far too wide a range.

    Yes,   it appears that I've made about 2740 Comments in TEN YEARS.  That is an average of about 270 Comments PER YEAR.   It appears that you have made  15 or more comments  TODAY.   Many of these were not particularly informative or on point.

    It is not clear just what is your goal in posting here,   but it seems that perhaps it is just from a compelling need for attention,   or perhaps to try to accumulate the largest number of comments in the shortest possible time.   The number of comments  is no index whatsoever of the usefulness of these comments.

    Can you picture just what might happen if everyone here would post as frequently as you do?  Particularly if all of those posts would have the average amount of actual useful information as are contained in the posts that you seem to generally make.

    Personally,   I try to minimize the number of posts made here,   not to maximize them ...

    There have been several questions to YOU that you have not answered,   like   are you posting here,  under two or more different user names?

    And another,   You have made several disparaging summary comments about MidNite Solar.   You had been asked,   exactly what is your personal experience actually using MidNite products,   including the Classics,   and what is the basis for your negative comments on MidNite products.

    What IS your experience with actually using MidNite products?   What do you see as the advantages of the Classic verses other MPPT CCs?

    Thanks!   Vic

    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 635 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23 #12
    The Mods here are very tolerant. Your nonsense and attitude wouldn't be tolerated on some of the other forums. I have a feeling you have been banned elsewhere., hence the tactic of changing your user name. You must be awfully lonely to have to sit behind your computer and try to agitate others all day. 

    I'm not so sure you have any new friends here.

    sierrasolar, I apologize for posting this on your thread. As usual Mr. SolRay or whatever he wants to call himself  has chosen to taint yet another thread with his childish style.


    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • mcgivormcgivor Registered Users Posts: 1,190 ✭✭✭✭
    The Mods here are very tolerant. Your nonsense and attitude wouldn't be tolerated on some of the other forums. I have a feeling you have been banned elsewhere., hence the tactic of changing your user name. You must be awfully lonely to have to sit behind your computer and try to agitate others all day. 

    I'm not so sure you have any new friends here.

    sierrasolar, I apologize for posting this on your thread. As usual Mr. SolRay or whatever he wants to call himself  has chosen to taint yet another thread with his childish style.



    It's very unfortunate that legitimate threads are polluted with meaningless comments which derail the flow of useful information between members. From the outside it may appear to be a dog and pony show, should such comments be tolerated, which is a crying shame, being drawn down to the lowest common denominator. The rampant posts only dilute the otherwise good reputation this forum has earned respect for, respect is earned, not given,  and too valuable to waste. Unfortunately the posts are so widespread, the forum is in danger of loosing its crediability, no rock is left unturned by this " spammer" who technically is not spamming for financial gain but for egotistical  gain.....ego spam?  My tounge hurts from all the biting. 
      1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider 150 60 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 8×T105 GC 24V nominal 

  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 635 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 23 #14
    I see somebody has removed his last post on this string, wonder who? I should have quoted him so his words couldn't be removed from my post and the mods would be able to see what he said.  What a coward.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • AguarancherAguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 263 ✭✭✭
    Its times like this that I miss Coot. He had a way of dealing with these issues. Hope he’s still kicking and doing well up in B.C.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,758 admin
    I deleted the comments...

    -Bill "moderator" B.
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 1,416 ✭✭✭✭
    I was thinking about him recently as well. They're having a bad fire season in that area this year.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • sierrasolarsierrasolar Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭✭
    The members who assist others and generously donate their time here have spoken. Some times you have to go off topic and uphold the rules or etiquette to follow to keep it professional. These basic rules of proper etiquette( are mostly common sense with a healthy dose of the Golden Rule thrown in for good measure)

    A very cool forum :)
    stan
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