Can waterheater be laid on its side

solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭
I have a new rheem heat pump water heater that I will be installing to replace my Geospring that I have given up on.  Been experimenting with 300 watt 24 volt dc element powered of my battery. 24/7. I t will make more hot water than I need so have to shut off the power some. I want to take the old 50 gal Geospring down in my celler crawl space which has block walls and cement floor. Just like a basement but only has 42 inch clearance under floor beams. I want to lay it on its side and connect the dc element to preheat the water some before it goes to my new waterheater in my ground floor utility room. I am going to use an unused solar panel to power The dc element. I know it will not overheat the water because it will only heat when the solar panel is working. A survey I read states that the well water temp. is 44 degree F. I have 2 175 watt solar panels that I can use and if 2 would make too much power I could also connect the 240 volt 4500 watt panel which only uses about 55 to 60 watts of 24 vdc. .  I also bought 9 new panels to power my magnum inverter. Thinking of putting a 24 volt temperature guage in my power room to monitor the dc powered water tank. WHAT IS YOUR OPINION?

Comments

  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭✭
    Wow. Lots to consider there. First cut would be that the geospring wants the condersor lower than the evaporator.?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
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  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭
    The geospring is dead. It will not be connected to ac. Just using it as a storage tank now with a dc element. 
  • JohannJohann Solar Expert Posts: 239 ✭✭✭
    edited June 3 #4
    Under normal condition, standing up, the warm/ hot water will rise. Your hot water output is on the top and your cold water input is on the bottom.
    In order to get warm/hot water out of it you really would need to keep the water heater in an upright position.
    I do not know what it would do to your safety devices if you lay your water heater down, since they can not measure/read the correct temperatures.
    Most likely it will not blow up when overheating if the over temperature/pressure relieve valve is still in place.
    I also do not know if the buil-in  thermostat can handle 13 amp DC since it was build for switching AC, if you are using it.
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭✭
    Assuming a 40gal tank, my guess is 300w might raise water temp by 2-3°f/hr when the sun is out. As water gets warmer, more will be lost during non-daylight hours, so even if no water was used it seems unlikely the water temp would ever get too hot. I don't think the pressure relief valve cares about orientation.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • animattanimatt Solar Expert Posts: 281 ✭✭✭
    You lay water heater on its side.  Then rotate/roll tank so cold water inlet is closest possible to the ground/floor. While hot water outlet is highest up. Works fine. Basically the orientation on thermosiphon water heater tanks. 
  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 215 ✭✭✭
    Why bother your HP water heater has a 3 to 4 c.o.p = very efficient heating of water. Save your power to use in the Rheem.
    The tank laying on it's side will waste a lot of energy using the elements to heat the water. Resistance elements have a c.o.p (coefficient of performance of 1, (  basically you get one unit of energy out for each unit in).
        #2 The water in the the horizontal tank will not stratify as it did when standing verticle ( hotest water rising to the top) and your btu losses through the insulation will increase because of the larger surface area that the hot water is now exposed to.
    If you want to use the extra tank circulate the hot water through it from the Rheem and you will decrease you power consumption by 300%.
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭✭
    My impression is he's using panels he already has lying around to preheat, so efficiency isn't so much of a consideration. Circulating water through a solar thermal collector would likely be even more efficient (only power being a circ pump), but doesn't use what he has.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭
    I have had these 2 panels laying around for 5 or 6 years and don,t have any use for them as the specifications are too far from any I have that I can pair them up with. So this is an experiment that won,t have much cost involved that I have to come up with. I was thinking of propping up the end a little with the top end that has the output. . I may fill the tank thru the bottom of the tank thru the drain petcock end.  It will just be an experiment and if it don't work I will just dismantle it. I also have a 40 gallon waterheater I could try. I am storeing it in the basement after I got the ge heatpump.  It probably will be awhile before I do it as I am in the middle of installing some panels to power my off grid inverter. Got 9 solar world 290 watt panels and a top of pole rack to mount them on. That will give me something to keep me busy for awhile as I am slow and old.  I hope these projects help me to keep from getting alztimers.  Looks like some people think it will work. thanks for the responses Solarvic
  • EstragonEstragon Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭✭
    I'd give it a shot. I also have an old 40g heater sitting out back I'm going to set up for an outdoor shower when I get around to it. Most of my place has been an experiment to keep me from developing mind rot more than might otherwise been the case.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • LucManLucMan Solar Expert Posts: 215 ✭✭✭
    solarvic said:
    I have had these 2 panels laying around for 5 or 6 years and don,t have any use for them as the specifications are too far from any I have that I can pair them up with. So this is an experiment that won,t have much cost involved that I have to come up with. I was thinking of propping up the end a little with the top end that has the output. . I may fill the tank thru the bottom of the tank thru the drain petcock end.  It will just be an experiment and if it don't work I will just dismantle it. I also have a 40 gallon waterheater I could try. I am storeing it in the basement after I got the ge heatpump.  It probably will be awhile before I do it as I am in the middle of installing some panels to power my off grid inverter. Got 9 solar world 290 watt panels and a top of pole rack to mount them on. That will give me something to keep me busy for awhile as I am slow and old.  I hope these projects help me to keep from getting alztimers.  Looks like some people think it will work. thanks for the responses Solarvic


    Ok I understand now.
    Go for it, every bit of preheat helps in that case. If the water heater has the T&P valve on the side of the tank you can remove it and use it for the HW out if that part of the tank is up, then reinstall the t&p valve in the old hw out fitting.
    Also remove the dip tube that is inside of the cold in, plug the end and drill holes in one side of the dip tube reinstall with the holes down. This will help slightly with the stratification and slow down the mixing of the cold and hot water if water is drawn.
    Have fun!!!
  • LumisolLumisol Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    It CAN be laid on it's side, but not with the same efficiency rating it has standing. If it is a choice of do this or throw it out, how can it not add at least a tiny fraction of the total heat to the equation, so try it out, try different orientations and learn from experimenting.
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 694 ✭✭✭✭
    solarvic said:
    WHAT IS YOUR OPINION?
    I'd get one or two 20gal heaters (around $300) that will fit in your crawlspace and install them normally.  That way you don't have to deal with trapped air, corrosion issues, calcification blocking intakes/outlets etc.
  • solarvicsolarvic Solar Expert Posts: 1,041 ✭✭✭
    Thanks bill for the idea but I was just going to do some experimenting with what I have. I have been heating my hot water for over 2 months or so with a 300 watt dc 24 volt element just from my battery to see if I could do it. I don,t need to have it  turned on 24/7 to get all the hot water I need. The new heat pump water  is only supposed to use $151.00 per year. Owners manual says it uses 400 watt when run in heat pump mode. Like Luckman said It really isn,t all that much of an energy savings when the HP is so efficient.  I might put the water heater on the porch and see if I can get it to operate on the regular 240 volt elements and give it to my brother.
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