Going off grid

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Comments

  • oil pan 4
    oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 767 ✭✭✭✭
    If you want a 24v automotive type alternator just buy one. Or see if the 12v alternator you have has a 24v regulator.
    Or connect the v-sense wire to one 12v battery to trick the alternator into producing 24v.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    I would like to use the alt that I have , it is rated for continuous use charging large marine battery banks. 
    I will take the alt to the rebuild shop and see what they can do. 
    Thanks for the reply
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
     Could some one tell me how I would run this panel in a 48 volt battery  system into a outback flex max 80 charge controler. Please .

    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017 #125
    Into an outback MPPT controller you would need 3 panels series wired for a 48 volt system

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    So we would be looking at vmpp 36.81 x3 =110 . 43 volts in to a 150 volt max charge controler . 
     It get cold here may be - 20/-30 would I still be ok with these panels ? 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017 #127
    Actually the maximum voltage rating is taken from the open circuit voltage which is 137.25 at 25 degrees Celsius , Standard test conditions (STC). You need the temp. coefficient numbers for those panels (should be on the data label) to calculate the numbers for your lowest expected temps in your area. Sounds like it will be too high. though. If you had a Midnite solar Classic 150 you have Hyper VOC protection which gives you an additional 48 volts headroom on a 48 volt system. Or a classic 200 would give you plenty of headroom although at a lower maximum charging amperage rating. This Hyper VOC is only there to protect the controller. You will get no charging if your array is producing over 150 volts.  I'm not sure but ,at some point I believe you will transition to a charging state which would naturally have lower voltage than open circuit voltage.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017 #128
    wellbuilt said:
    So we would be looking at vmpp 36.81 x3 =110 . 43 volts in to a 150 volt max charge controler . 
     It get cold here may be - 20/-30 would I still be ok with these panels ? 
    Have you considered using the Outback string calculator for their recommendations?
    http://www.outbackpower.com/outback-support/string-sizing-tool
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    No haven't figured out how to work the string calculator yet sorry
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    2 panels in series at 91.50 volts won't charge a 48 volt bank ?
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    2 in series would probably be the better choice, close to double battery voltage which many claim to be optimum.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2017 #132
    91.5 would be the Voc. Once you put a load on them the voltage will drop to 73.62. Problem that number is at standard test conditions. In the real world you will only see that number when it's cold outside. When it gets hot, or even warm the surface temps of the panels will get considerably warmer than the air temp and the voltage drops. that's where the temp. coefficient comes into play again. keep in mind that equalizing voltage will run up over 60 volts on a 48 volt bank, regular charging voltage will be upwards of 58 volts. This is the reason the 60 cell panels some people think are 24 volt panels wont work for 24 volt battery charging as a single panel. MPPT controllers want to see 150 to 200 % of the battery voltage to work effectively. Feeding an MPPT controller a 48 volt nominal voltage, which is what two panels in series is, will gain you little advantage over a PWM controller, at least when it's warm out. When it's cold you will see some amperage boost. Anyway that's better than cooking your controller by wiring 3 in series.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    72 cell 36 volt panels 2 in series are not adequate for charging flooded lead acid batteries. Best to use 60 cell 250 to 275 watt panels 3 in series. That's 90 to 95 volts VMP and VOC is not too high. Just last week a friend was using several strings of 4 100 watt panels, string voltage was 75 volts and during 64 volt EQ ( 225AH T-105's) the charge controller was cycling from full wattage to rest every couple of minutes.
    The panels could not produce VMP high enough for the MPPT charge controller to maintain the EQ charge voltage.

    Rick
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    Thanks guys , I just found the panels at 100 bucks each new in the box 
    20 min from my house . 
     I'll keep looking . 
     I'm looking for a panel that has a voc of 38-+ to series 3 together to get around 115 volts+- .
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Most 60 cell panels are 30.x VMP and 36.x VOC.  Some of the latest 285-300 watt 60 cell panels will be higher.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • jonr
    jonr Solar Expert Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭✭
    > MPPT controllers want to see 150 to 200 % of the battery voltage to work effectively.

    Specs I've seen are highly variable and depend on the absolute voltage values.  Ie check your specific charge controller.  Or consider PWM.

    I am available for custom hardware/firmware development

  • littleharbor2
    littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 2,036 ✭✭✭✭✭
     Of course you can push the max voltage envelope and still charge a 12 volt battery bank but you will give up some efficiency in the voltage step down process while creating more heat and likely shortening the life of the controller.    

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric,  460 Ah. 24 volt LiFePo4 battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    Hi all , 
     I'm getting ready to run some wires at my place , and I need to add a grounding rod .
      Can I just use 1/2 rebar or dose it need to be a brass rod ? 
     I've seen it both ways . 
     I'm on ledge with 6" to 12" of dirt over  a granite ledge . 
     Could I dig a trench say 10' from the back of the garage and lay the rod in the ground? 
     How about if I drilled a series of holes 30" deep and zigzaged the ground rod between them . 
      I could of grounded to my footing when we poured the concrete but I did  not have the lugs or wire at the time.
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    edited May 2017 #139
    You can also use ground plates buried in your shallow soil... These are copper and, I am sure, not cheap:

    http://www.tlpinc.com/products/grounding/ground-plates.html

    If this is not inspected... I would think about using buried lengths of "L" Blue or "K" Orange lettered copper pipe (red is thinnest, Orange is thick wall copper pipe. "M" is read letter and the lightest grade for interior of home copper piping). Bury a few 10 foot lengths of copper pipe in a star pattern. And make all of your connections at the center of the star (or 1/4 circle of star pattern--the point of the star closest to the wall/building/where your ground wire comes to earth).

    Running 6 awg for 10 feet is note great for lightning grounds... It has higher "impedance" and the lightning will try to find another path rather than follow 10-20+ feet of 6 awg cable. (lightning has "higher frequencies" and behaves differently than 60 Hz or DC current--Higher frequencies tend to want to leave the conductor (magnetic field forces electron flow to the skin of the wire). If you have to make a run, 3/4" copper pipe should be better (or get true lightning rated braided grounding cable).

    If you have dry soil, they even go as far as back-filling with bentonite clay and a dry well to add water to reduce resistance. This is a nice catalog with lots of lightning attachments and fittings. Note that they are using something like 2 AWG minimum copper cabling (building less than 75 feet tall--I think) for their grounding.

    https://www.erico.com/catalog/literature/E1147C-WWEN.pdf

    I am in no way a lightning expert--Just some ideas.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    I do have some 20 g copper flashing 12"x 15' left from a job. 
     If I rolled over one edge of copper flashing and clamped it to a 7' piece of ground rod then bent the rod at  90o to stand up out of the ground with the proper lug  connection to  attach my ground wire , would that be OK . 
     Some of the plates are 30"x48" 20gadge copper . 
     I also have a bunch of 3" wast line that could be pounded flat and run out away from the house in a fan shape ( half a star ) starting at the wall with the ground rod bent in a l shape standing up for ground lug .
     Maybe braze the ground rod to one lenth of pipe and bolt thru all three pipe ends 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    20 gauge sheet metal is about 0.0375 inch thick. Those were 0.250 inch [1/4"] thick copper plates I linked to.

    K wall 3/4 pipe is 0.065" thick (just one wall).

    I would not be a fan of 20 gauge copper buried for long life.

    3" pipe would not be bad (copper or iron?).

    - Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have similar conditions and used a couple of grounding plates, one for array and one for cabin. They're about a foot square by 1/4" thick and have a connection lug bolt. About $20 from the orange box store IIRC.

    I buried them in small depressions where the ground is less likely to dry out.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    The pipe is copper 3" wast line from the 60s cut out of a building last year it has a thick wall.
      bill some of the links were 1/4" but some were 20  gage but I would just buy ground plates if that is better ,
    i just need to find them .
     Estragon , I know the orange store like the back of my hand and have never seen grounding plates here, but I will look in the am . 
     I am trying to figure out my utility room now , lots of stuff to go in that room 
     
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • Lumisol
    Lumisol Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭✭
    Looks like fun. I am building with adobe, not wood.
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    Adobe , I would like to try that I've been a mason for 35 years.
     I built with a lot of stone and concrete but never mud.
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    I lived next to the ocean for a few decades... Just saw so much corrosion, I always planned for the worst.

    If they have 20g grounding plates, I cannot say they are wrong.

    I am no expert.

    - Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    I'm going to see what I can get from the ELEC supply house thanks bill
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    Hi all , I am making some progress , we have been crunching a lot of #. 
     In the end I have  decide to go with a out back flex power one system 3600/48 volt .
     It was really a no brainer . 
     Want to start with 8 gc 215 for now , but upgrade to good RE battery in a few years 400 450 ah .
     How much panel do I need for  reliable charging in Albany ny  for the larger battery . 
     The panel will be on the roof at 37o pointed south . Thanks in advance 
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    The panels are just 265 watt from AWS .
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    Give us your best guestimate of the number of Whrs/ Ahrs you  you will use in a day and days of autonomy you desire...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • wellbuilt
    wellbuilt Solar Expert Posts: 763 ✭✭✭✭
    I was hoping for around 3200 but looks more like 4000 4200 . 
     With 2 days storage .
     My outback CC will hold 4000 watts and I have room for a array 8 panels wide by 2 panels high soooo I was thinking to run 3 series 5 strings  , my quot came  in with 265 watts 12 panels .
     I don't want to have to add later . 
     
    Out back  flex power one  with out back 3648 inverter fm80 charge controler  flex net  mate 16 gc215 battery’s 4425 Watts solar .