15 billion for a wall , how many panels and watts would 15 billion buy

casabonita15casabonita15 Registered Users Posts: 3
15 billion for a wall  ,  how many panels and watts would 15 billion buy 
«1

Comments

  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 708 ✭✭✭✭
    How about this?  Build the wall out of solar panels and make it pay for itself. Win Win.

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭✭
    How about this?  Build the wall out of solar panels and make it pay for itself. Win Win.
    Heh.....said mostly in jest I think. Proper angle on the border would be? Thinking ~25 degrees?

    I have been reading that they plan to start selling federal lands in Colorado. It is truly a great time to be a billionaire.  It will not be such a great time if the balloon pops.

    We still have loads and loads of money for war in various countries. Mattis/Trump apparently droned targets in Yemen and one other country almost immediately.

    Things may become very interesting?
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 150 watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • MStar1MStar1 Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭
    6 TW at $2.50/W

    -MStar Applications EE

  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28 #5
    How many zeros in a Tera?  same as a trillion... 10 to the power of 12...  12 zeros

    what is your National DEBT?  13 Trillion?  In perspective that 15 Billion is only ~ 1/1,000 of your national debt....

    GT PV are selling at less than $1Cdn = US $.75 approx. Lets say $2.00 mounted etc, Volume discount you know!... should be about 30 Billion Watts

    Mega is a Million,..30 Billion = 1 thousand x 30,000 megawatt generators...

    Grand Coolee Dam generates 6,900 Megawatts, so 30 Billion Watts would equal > 4 THOUSAND more Grand Coolee dams... Not bad !

    It cost $1.85 Billion to build the GC dam in 1998 $$ .... so one would bet somewhere near 10 to15 more dams for the 30 billion Watts..... maybe even less figuring in inflation over the last 19 years...?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge, Hughes1100 Sat Modem
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭✭
    How many zeros in a Tera?  same as a trillion... 10 to the power of 12...  12 zeros

    what is your National DEBT?  13 Trillion?  In perspective that 15 Billion is only ~ 1/1,000 of your national debt....

    GT PV are selling at less than $1Cdn = US $.75 approx. Lets say $2.00 mounted etc, Volume discount you know!... should be about 30 Billion Watts

    Mega is a Million,..30 Billion = 1 thousand x 30,000 megawatt generators...

    Grand Coolee Dam generates 6,900 Megawatts, so 30 Billion Watts would equal > 4 THOUSAND more Grand Coolee dams... Not bad !

    It cost $1.85 Billion to build the GC dam in 1998 $$ .... so one would bet somewhere near 10 to15 more dams for the 30 billion Watts..... maybe even less figuring in inflation over the last 19 years...?
    Current national debt: 20 trillion
    Unfunded Medicare liabilities: 50 trillion
    Unfunded Social Security liabilities: 26 trillion
    Numbers too big for many to understand.

    We...are...toast.

    Great excuse to sell federal lands to the super rich. Just a hunch that is who will become the owners.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 150 watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 7,309 ✭✭✭✭
    Unfunded Social Security liabilities: 26 trillion

    Many make this mistake.  The money was there, taken out of my paycheck.   Then the Gov stole from the Gov to send it elsewhere, leaving a hole.   Undo the paper swap and much of it comes back.  But that won't happen, they will forget to build the wall, and the new citizens will pay enough SS taxes to make it square,  Right. Not.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • littleharbor2littleharbor2 Solar Expert Posts: 708 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28 #8
    Here's your solar border wall.  I was just kidding but this is a serious look at it. Unfortunately it will probably never happen.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/solar-panels-us-mexico_us_5857fa6be4b0390447097e56

    2.1 Kw Suntech 175 mono, Classic 200, Trace SW 4024 ( 15 years old  but brand new out of sealed factory box Jan. 2015), Bogart Tri-metric, 700 ah @24 volt AGM battery bank. Plenty of Baja Sea of Cortez sunshine.

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    Unfunded Social Security liabilities: 26 trillion

    Many make this mistake.  The money was there, taken out of my paycheck.   Then the Gov stole from the Gov to send it elsewhere, leaving a hole.   Undo the paper swap and much of it comes back.  But that won't happen, they will forget to build the wall, and the new citizens will pay enough SS taxes to make it square,  Right. Not.
    A criminal government run by career criminals. We'll be fine.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 150 watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28 #10
    We have the best government money can buy!
    Around 580 billion was the deficit last year. We did bring in quite a few dollars however.

     I agree we will be fine because there is always the "real" alien card to be played. My brother who works for the Air Force down at Vandenberg just smirks when I ask him to "tell" me :)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 28 #11
    We have the government that the most money has bought! Had to FTFY...
    Around 580 billion was the deficit last year. We did bring in quite a few dollars however.

     I agree we will be fine because there is always the "real" alien card to be played. My brother who works for the Air Force down at Vandenberg just smirks when I ask him to "tell" me :)
    You think aliens are real? I would guess they exist on thousands of other planets. Given the billions, maybe trillions, of planets there is no scientific reason that life would not find a way on other planets.

    I still seek intelligent life on earth.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 150 watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭✭
    I have no idea if they are real. It seems logical but there is not any evidence that has been disclosed. Maybe Trump will tell us,
     I know my brother won't ;)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭✭
    I have no idea if they are real. It seems logical but there is not any evidence that has been disclosed. Maybe Trump will tell us,
     I know my brother won't ;)
    When an "expert" refuses to answer...that would lead some people to speculate on why the bloke doesn't simply say "There are no aliens....end of story."

    I don't see how disclosing alien existence would solve our financial insanity...I mean woes.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 150 watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭✭
    They will teach us how to make the "magic wandu"  B)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭✭
    Don't forget in a computer, it is all 1's and Zeros....... so what is the debt? :o    No problem ;) , it's all just  1's and zeros...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge, Hughes1100 Sat Modem
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 711 ✭✭✭✭
    How about this?  Build the wall out of solar panels and make it pay for itself. Win Win.
    How about a superconducting high voltage DC line from LA to New York City?  Cover it with solar if you like.  That way you can power New York City during their peak load from Phoenix solar while they are still generating.  You can even run it by the border if you like and make it really high.
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭✭
    How about this?  Build the wall out of solar panels and make it pay for itself. Win Win.
    How about a superconducting high voltage DC line from LA to New York City?  Cover it with solar if you like.  That way you can power New York City during their peak load from Phoenix solar while they are still generating.  You can even run it by the border if you like and make it really high.
    Could a CME (coronal mass ejection) resist a target like that? Think I've read they are supposed to be attracted to conductive wiring.

    Don't worry....I'm about the only one who see's storm clouds brewing.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 150 watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • MangasMangas Solar Expert Posts: 537 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30 #18
    Let me just say, when it comes to the Southern Borderlands, you guys have no idea. . .!


    Ranch Off Grid System: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF House Construction, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭✭
    Well, I do !  Almost made my Offgrid home south of Tucson. many of my closest friends from cruising sailboats live there. We crossed into and out of Yuma and Nogales dozens of times. We always knew how dangerous it was on either side of the border. We always felt alot better 100 miles into either country and never dawdled in the border towns. 

    We really loved the decade in Latin America also. In the end we just looked at each other and said, I thought you wanted to keep doing this?
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭✭
    I own 5 lots that are close to the border = expert.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 150 watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 711 ✭✭✭✭
    softdown said:
    How about this?  Build the wall out of solar panels and make it pay for itself. Win Win.
    How about a superconducting high voltage DC line from LA to New York City?  Cover it with solar if you like.  That way you can power New York City during their peak load from Phoenix solar while they are still generating.  You can even run it by the border if you like and make it really high.
    Could a CME (coronal mass ejection) resist a target like that? Think I've read they are supposed to be attracted to conductive wiring.
    Heck, with a well designed DC transmission line, you could harvest the power from a CME and power Las Vegas!
  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 711 ✭✭✭✭
    Mangas said:
    Let me just say, when it comes to the Southern Borderlands, you guys have no idea. . .!

    Before Air Adventures/Brown Field moved to Otay Lake, we used to operate a drop zone exactly 540 yards from the US border fence.  (Note that the fence itself is on US soil so the border itself is a few yards south of that.)  We dealt with the border patrol, border jumpers and US people stuck in Tijuana pretty regularly.

    One thing we discovered was that when people accidentally landed in Mexico, getting them back over as quickly as possible was key.  (Two Navy jumpers were slow about it once, and both the Border Patrol and the Federales had their guns out before they got back over.)  My wife (girlfriend back then) landed in Mexico one day, and hightailed it to the fence.  When she got there, she had one helpful Mexican kid show her where she could crawl under the fence.  She was too tall to fit, but she used the hole to get her gear under the fence.  Then another kid showed her where to climb the wall; they had piled up about 5 feet of dirt to start with, and there were enough rust holes to get her the rest of the way.  The Border Patrol helped her climb onto their truck and they were back at the DZ before any Federales showed up.

    During that time they were finding about one tunnel a year, ranging from 10 foot tunnels that kids dug to a half-mile long tunnel with lighting, rails for a trolley, ventilation and elevators at both ends.

    Long story short, a wall won't work.


  • mike95490mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 7,309 ✭✭✭✭
    bill von novak said:.....
    Long story short, a wall won't work.
    I'll disagree. It depends upon your willingness to use it to it's full advantage, the germans built a wall, and a fenced area.   A few folks got through, many more died, and the vast majority never tried because they knew the guards would actually defend the wall.  No ladders, no dirt piles and a shot to the head if you throw a rock.   As to if we want to guard the border under those conditions, that's not my decision, but a wall with armed guards, works.
    Way too many snowflakes that think all people are nice people.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • bill von novakbill von novak Solar Expert Posts: 711 ✭✭✭✭
    mike95490 said:
    bill von novak said:.....
    Long story short, a wall won't work.
    I'll disagree. It depends upon your willingness to use it to it's full advantage, the germans built a wall, and a fenced area.
    Yep.  And still thousands went under it, over it and around it.
    Way too many snowflakes that think all people are nice people.

    And way too many people are terrified of anyone who doesn't look like them.  Still, immigrants are, as a whole, far less violent than your typical US citizen, so not really that much to worry about on the scale of problems we have today.



  • MangasMangas Solar Expert Posts: 537 ✭✭✭✭
    Wall on the Rooselvelt Easement is very effective depending on the construction standard.  We have five types here and one is very effective depending on where it is deployed.  Many other factors too.

    Few people experience nor can grasp what we have to deal with on our Arizona Borderland ranches everyday. 

    There is reality and then the illusion.



     



    Ranch Off Grid System: 2 x pair stacked Schneider XW 5548+ Plus inverters (4), 2 x Schneider MPPT 80-600 Charge Controllers, 2 Xanbus AGS Generator Start and Air Extraction System Controllers, 64 Trojan L16 REB 6v 375 AH Flooded Cel Batteries w/Water Miser Caps, 44 x 185 Sharp Solar Panels, Cummins Onan RS20 KW Propane Water Cooled Genset, ICF House Construction, 2 x High Efficiency Variable Speed three ton Central A/C 220v compressors, 2 x Variable Speed Air Handlers, 2 x HD WiFi HVAC Zoned System Controllers
  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 31 #26
     OMG.... this is quite a read about the Wall..https://www.cato.org/blog/border-wall-impractical-expensive-ineffective-plan

    I stopped reading the details after the picture of a 4 x 4 driving over the wall... pretty ingenious...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge, Hughes1100 Sat Modem
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Dave AngeliniDave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭✭
    Nice westbranch!  How is the Canadian wall going?  :)
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Mountains near Mariposa/Yosemite CA
     http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭✭
    Nobody wanted to build one... said he would just send in the army  so he can get the oil! plus it's WINTER and the concrete would not set properly... :( plus he might even cross over the 49 th and never leave... :o :'(
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge, Hughes1100 Sat Modem
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,563 ✭✭✭✭
    What about the Mexicans seeking to improve their lives? Experts generally believe that they will get over it.
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 150 watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • mcgivormcgivor Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭✭
    This should all end, build a massive solar array, on Mexican soil if need be, whatever the cost, use Mexican labor to construct and maintain it, cleaning the panels etc, cutting the grass, whatever it takes, give them a reason to not want to migrate to the United States, lm sure they would be happier supporting their families in Mexico, home is where the heart is, blood is thicker than water, blah blah blah, give them opportunity. The iternational monetary system, along with  local corruption, which go hand in hand, has left people desperate, take away the desperation, and the problem is solved. I'm not one who likes to enter political or religious discussions but have lived in enough third world countries to understand what it is the people truly want, a means to survive.
      1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider 150 60 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 8×T105 GC 24V nominal 

  • JohannJohann Solar Expert Posts: 240 ✭✭✭
    edited February 6 #31
    mike95490 said:
    bill von novak said:.....
    Long story short, a wall won't work.
    I'll disagree. It depends upon your willingness to use it to it's full advantage, the germans built a wall, and a fenced area.
    Yep.  And still thousands went under it, over it and around it.
    Way too many snowflakes that think all people are nice people.

    And way too many people are terrified of anyone who doesn't look like them.  Still, immigrants are, as a whole, far less violent than your typical US citizen, so not really that much to worry about on the scale of problems we have today.



    Basically there where  few that made it into west Germany after the wall and fencing was done. Many escaped while the building of the wall and fencing was not done.
    Apparently, you never seen the east German wall or fencing, There was a strip of about 200 meters, 600 feet of no-man's-land along the east German border.

    Starting with towers that had 2 soldiers on it, the soldiers where only together for 1 day and then they moved on to different towers with different soldiers, so they could not trust each other nor became friends.
    Then they had German shepherd dogs along a running line  that got fed only 2-3 days a week that will tear you apart in no time because they where kept hungry.
    If you made it hat far you came to the self-shooting guns that where triggered by motion detectors .
    Pass that you had the challenge to walk across a mine-field.
    And finally you get to the rolled razor wires.
    Ground detectors have bees utilized, even metal bars driven into river beds to avoid wet-backs.

    I think it was about 5,000 in 45 years that escaped.
    The US could handle 5,000 illegal folks in 45 years. It is estimated that 10 millions are illegal in the US and that is a problem.
    A $60 billion one-time expense for the wall is much cheaper than spending $150 billion every year for illegals.

     

     
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.