Any Morningstar Guru's here?

Old Guy
Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
I need a little help understanding what my Morningstar TS-60 (PWM charging) with the optional digital readout is trying to tell me and what its doing.

I have this system in a cabin we use once a week.  It basically has 2 Renogy panels, two 12v AGM batteries and the TS-60 with RTS and voltage sensor. It is being used as a solar charger.  

Here are the questions:

1. The manual says AGM batteries Should be charged to 14.4 volts and I have the dip switches set to that.  However when I get to the cabin after a week they are usually in float mode and a tick over 15 volts.  Is this correct?

2. On the digital display the second mode shows a bar graph with Volts and Amps but there is no scale???  What good is this?

3. When I start using power the batteries are reading just over 15 volts but it drops very quickly to 12.5 volts and it stays there rock solid.  I have never had them go below that.  The TS-60 has some 4 SOC LED's.  Most of the time yellow and red are on and the manual says this means 0% to 30% state of charge. But It also adds "When battery is charging".  What does this mean?

4. Finally, at what voltage should I stop using the batteries?  I have a very light load, mostly 12v LED lights and a RV water pump that only runs runs when the faucet is on (not very often).  The lights can run with as low as 8 volts but I understand letting the batteries run down that much would ruin them.

Any help here is appreciated!




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Comments

  • animatt
    animatt Solar Expert Posts: 295 ✭✭✭
    What are battery temps.  Are they extremely cold.  Maybe some kind of voltage compensation due to low temps. 
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,433 admin
    Generally, the temperature correction on lead acid batteries is -5 mvolts per degree C per Cell from room temp:
    • Offset = -(0.005 volts) * ( 0 C battery bank - 25 C room temp) * 6 cells {12 volt battery} = +0.75 volt offset at 0C to float/absorb set point
    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • MStar1
    MStar1 Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭✭
    Old Guy said:

    1. The manual says AGM batteries Should be charged to 14.4 volts and I have the dip switches set to that.  However when I get to the cabin after a week they are usually in float mode and a tick over 15 volts.  Is this correct?

    2. On the digital display the second mode shows a bar graph with Volts and Amps but there is no scale???  What good is this?

    3. When I start using power the batteries are reading just over 15 volts but it drops very quickly to 12.5 volts and it stays there rock solid.  I have never had them go below that.  The TS-60 has some 4 SOC LED's.  Most of the time yellow and red are on and the manual says this means 0% to 30% state of charge. But It also adds "When battery is charging".  What does this mean?

    4. Finally, at what voltage should I stop using the batteries?  I have a very light load, mostly 12v LED lights and a RV water pump that only runs runs when the faucet is on (not very often).  The lights can run with as low as 8 volts but I understand letting the batteries run down that much would ruin them.

    1. 15V would be the Absorption Voltage at 5 deg. C.  .6V = -20C * -.03V/C  At Float it should drop below 15V.
    Are you using the Remote Temperature Sensor (RTS)? If so what is the temperature? Is the Voltage Sense connected? 
    2. The bar graph is a general indication. It might be useful if you are familiar with a particular system. If you need the details you would need to switch to a different screen.
    3. 12.5V is a little lower than open circuit rest voltage for a 12V battery which would be typical when the battery is mostly full and there is a small net discharge. The LED transitions are based on battery voltages. Therefore, when using the TS in charge mode these voltages are higher than when it is in load or lighting mode and therefore reading the charge state during net battery charging. If you had a TS for load control it would show the approx. SOC during discharge as it is set with lower voltages in that mode.
    4. Letting the battery voltage drop below 10V or 11V should be avoided under any circumstance. If you cycle the batteries more often with a very deep discharge it will shorten the battery life. 
    Larger loads will pull the battery voltage down more even when it has a fairly high SOC. Therefore, with smaller loads a higher low voltage disconnect might be considered since the battery voltage will remain somewhat high with a lower SOC.
    I would suggest 11.5-12V. The more often you are likely to cycle the battery the higher it should be set to. If you don't mind replacing the batteries more often 11.5 is not that bad. 12V is more conservative and it will make the battery bank last much longer as it will prevent cycling below ~50% SOC. This typically requires a larger battery bank so you have the Ah's you need. A larger solar array might also be needed if there is any problem with recovering fast enough from a low SOC. Some people use SunSaver (L models) which includes load control with LVD = 11.5V for smaller loads rather than a TS. 




    -MStar Applications EE

  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    MStar1 said:
    Old Guy said:

    1. The manual says AGM batteries Should be charged to 14.4 volts and I have the dip switches set to that.  However when I get to the cabin after a week they are usually in float mode and a tick over 15 volts.  Is this correct?

    2. On the digital display the second mode shows a bar graph with Volts and Amps but there is no scale???  What good is this?

    3. When I start using power the batteries are reading just over 15 volts but it drops very quickly to 12.5 volts and it stays there rock solid.  I have never had them go below that.  The TS-60 has some 4 SOC LED's.  Most of the time yellow and red are on and the manual says this means 0% to 30% state of charge. But It also adds "When battery is charging".  What does this mean?

    4. Finally, at what voltage should I stop using the batteries?  I have a very light load, mostly 12v LED lights and a RV water pump that only runs runs when the faucet is on (not very often).  The lights can run with as low as 8 volts but I understand letting the batteries run down that much would ruin them.

    1. 15V would be the Absorption Voltage at 5 deg. C.  .6V = -20C * -.03V/C  At Float it should drop below 15V.
    Are you using the Remote Temperature Sensor (RTS)? If so what is the temperature? Is the Voltage Sense connected? 
    2. The bar graph is a general indication. It might be useful if you are familiar with a particular system. If you need the details you would need to switch to a different screen.
    3. 12.5V is a little lower than open circuit rest voltage for a 12V battery which would be typical when the battery is mostly full and there is a small net discharge. The LED transitions are based on battery voltages. Therefore, when using the TS in charge mode these voltages are higher than when it is in load or lighting mode and therefore reading the charge state during net battery charging. If you had a TS for load control it would show the approx. SOC during discharge as it is set with lower voltages in that mode.
    4. Letting the battery voltage drop below 10V or 11V should be avoided under any circumstance. If you cycle the batteries more often with a very deep discharge it will shorten the battery life. 
    Larger loads will pull the battery voltage down more even when it has a fairly high SOC. Therefore, with smaller loads a higher low voltage disconnect might be considered since the battery voltage will remain somewhat high with a lower SOC.
    I would suggest 11.5-12V. The more often you are likely to cycle the battery the higher it should be set to. If you don't mind replacing the batteries more often 11.5 is not that bad. 12V is more conservative and it will make the battery bank last much longer as it will prevent cycling below ~50% SOC. This typically requires a larger battery bank so you have the Ah's you need. A larger solar array might also be needed if there is any problem with recovering fast enough from a low SOC. Some people use SunSaver (L models) which includes load control with LVD = 11.5V for smaller loads rather than a TS. 



    1. Yes. I am using the Remote Temperature Sensor.  The temperature here has been in the 20-39 degree range.  Fahrenheit.  I have the controller set to display Fahrenheit and it has been very accurate.  I also have the voltage sense connected and it also is very accurate compared to my VOM.  At float it reads just above 15V.

    2. OK.  Still seems kinda useless without some kind of increment marking or something.

    3. OK.  I think....  : )

    4. OK.  With my unit 12V should be the stop point.

    THANK YOU.
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Sometimes it is best to start with your dip switch settings, that will give all the information needed on how you are configured, can you list them from 1 to 8. From this a step by step approach dealing with one thing at a time, rather than everything at once to reduce confusion, can begin. The float voltage at 15V is too high even taking into consideration the temperature compensation, you should be in the region of 14.3V at the temperature stated. 
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    I thought it was to high as well but still not sure how to correct it.

    The DIP switches are set as follows....

    #1 - Off / Battery charge mode
    #2 - Off  #3 - On / 12 Volts
    #4 - Off  #5 - On #6 - On / Should be PWM 14.4 Volts
    #7 - Off / Manual says do not equalize AGM batteries
    #8 - Off 

    Is this correct?
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Dip switchs 4,5,6 shold all be off, you are in flooded. Was the sun shining when you saw 15V, because this is still high for float.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    Thank You Mcgivor,

    I think I may have found the issue.  On page 12 of the manual it says to set switches 4,5,6 to Off/On/On for PWM 14.4 Volts and thats what I used.  On page 27 it is more specific and lists different settings for sealed and flooded batteries.  For sealed batteries the switches should be at Off, Off, Off for 14 volts and Off, Off, On for 14.15 Volts and Off, On, Off for 14.35 Volts.  All these settings have a 13.4 float voltage.

    So the settings I used are for flooded batteries but at these settings PWM should be 14.4 Volts with a float of 13.4 Volts and a equalization voltage of 15.1 Volts.  I have the equalization switch set to manual but my batteries are always showing exactly 15.1 Volts when I get to the cabin.  Not sure why they would be this high with the equalization set to manual but I am thinking this is my problem.

    What settings should I try?  Have I damaged my batteries?  They have been running like this about 5 weeks.

    Note: Even though the batteries are showing 15.1 Volts they drop to 12.5 Volts very quickly as soon as I start using them.




  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #10
    You should use one of the 3 sealed settings which most closely meet the manufacturers recommendations 
    off-off-off
    off-off-on
    off-on-off
    For 4,5,6 respectively 
    As far as damage is concerned, you have had cold weather on your side, but to speculate would be irresponsible.

    The 15.1V is still an unanswered question because that voltage would be an absorbtion voltage compensated  for lower temperature, not float, which is why the question,was, did the display say float, or PWM?
     
    It is normal for the voltage to drop as soon as a load is applied, 12.5V with loads on indicates a healthy battery.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    I appreciate your time Mcgivor.

    The 15.1 volt reading is at float but even with the settings I am using it should only go that high during a equalization which I have set to OFF.

    Either this owners manual is terrible or I am not understanding at all.  Maybe someone with more knowledge can tell me.

    In the SETUP section it has this diagram which I used.  I wanted 14.4 volts so I went with the #4 setting.

    This does not make sense to me. Under the "Battery Type" column it has numbers 1 thru 8.  There are 8 switches and not 8 different battery types I am aware of.  Nowhere in the manual does it list these 8 different battery types.  Am I missing something?

    Towards the back of the manual it has a more detailed description and diagram.

    On this diagram it actually shows the type of battery under the "Battery Type" column.  On the incorrect setting I used (Off, On, On) from the setup section of the manual it shows on this page the voltage can go to 15.1 but only during equalization but I have the number 8 switch set to Off/Manual.  The float voltage for every setting is 13.4 volts so how am I getting to 15.1 volts?

    Having AGM batteries I believe I should be using the first OFF-OFF-OFF settings because it is the only setting that shows "None" for the equalization voltage.

    I can take it..... Who is off here, me or the manual?

  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Having a slightly lower absorb voltage probably won't hurt in your application, at least for now, so I would go ahead and set the switches to #1 (off,off,off), and leave the RTS on.   You definitely want to get to the bottom of the 15v thing.

    If that cures the problem, you could change it to #3, which will give you very close to your target absorb voltage, and the "equalize" voltage is only a rounding error higher. 

    If changing to #1 doesn't cure the problem, I would try removing the RTS to see if there's an issue with temp compensation.
     
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    edited January 2017 #13
    Hell, I don't know what my target absorb voltage is......  :)  But I'm pretty sure its not 15!
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    OG said    Hell, I don't know what my target absorb voltage is..

    Yo have to get that from the manufacturer, try their web page first...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No it almost certainly isn't 15. You had earlier said "the manual" (morningstar?) said 14.4v. The battery manufacturer should have charging specs for your particular battery, which may be different.

    In your application the batteries have all week to get charged so a bit lower absorb voltage isn't such a bad thing. Too high on a sealed battery is bad though, as there is no way to add water. That's why I suggested you start by changing to #1 charge profile.

    It's not that there are 8 different battery types just 8 different charging profiles, and some charging profiles tend to work better with different battery types ( if that makes any sense). The controller doesn't care what type of battery it's connected to. It (should) charge according to the setting selected.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    The 2 batteries are deep cycle Duracell AGM I picked up at Sams Club.  The Duracell website is no help so I will call their customer service number in the morning.

    Thanks everyone!
  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭

    Estragon said:
    No it almost certainly isn't 15. You had earlier said "the manual" (morningstar?) said 14.4v. The battery manufacturer should have charging specs for your particular battery, which may be different.

    In your application the batteries have all week to get charged so a bit lower absorb voltage isn't such a bad thing. Too high on a sealed battery is bad though, as there is no way to add water. That's why I suggested you start by changing to #1 charge profile.

    It's not that there are 8 different battery types just 8 different charging profiles, and some charging profiles tend to work better with different battery types ( if that makes any sense). The controller doesn't care what type of battery it's connected to. It (should) charge according to the setting selected.
    The only thing I have to go on is the 14.4 volt recommendation in the Morningstar manual.  I will try to find out what the batteries actually need to be in the AM.  I understand there are 8 charging profiles but the manual does say "Battery Type" over that column. :)
    I think the controller is decent but the manual sure leaves a lot to be desired.
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #18
    • The top 3 charging algorithms are for sealed, AGM are sealed , I would turn 4,5,6 to off, as @Estragon suggested, this would probably best in an application where it is not a daily cycle use, left for long periods in float. When dip switch changes are made the controller should be turned off and restarted  connecting battery first, then solar. Disconnect is reversed, solar then battery.
    • You do not want to use 14.4V  as this may damage the battery, that voltage is for flooded, but can be used in cyclical applications for SOME newer AGM, so to be on the safe side, set it lower. My opinions.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • PNjunction
    PNjunction Solar Expert Posts: 762 ✭✭✭
    Old Guy - your Duracell agm's are actually rebranded private label East Penn / Deka agm's.  Nice.

    For a manual, search for East Penn / Deka charging 0139.pdf file.

    Note that this document contains instructions for *both* gel and agm.  You want to be looking at the agm charts.  Page 11 shows the voltage values for a range of temps.  Essentially, anything from 14.4 to 14.6v absorb is acceptable, and 13.4 - 13.6 or so.

    The values as shown by the dipswitches assume the industry standard 68-72F range.  Your temperature probe will adjust up or down from this automatically as needed.

    Even though you are using your batteries doing weekend warrior duty, I still recommend not *babying* them instead run at the default 14.6v setting, and 13.4v float.  (your sensor will change that of course).

    No, EQ is NOT recommended for most agm's.  That is, the very high voltage type we associate with flooded, ie 15.6v or so for many hours.  Instead, agm's need a "freshening" charge every 30 days or so.  This typically means about 0.2v above normal absorb for 3 hours.  However, some controllers cannot do that, and only assume the very high voltage flooded eq type.

    Thus, this is part of the reasoning for running at the highest recommended absorb voltage with that controller, since it is incapable of doing an agm "refresh" - unless you use software for custom settings.  We'll assume you aren't going to do that.

    There are only two states to an agm - slight overcharge, or sulfated undercharge.  Given the option, one should always choose slight overcharge, so don't be afraid of using the highest recommended absorb voltage - especially when solar absorb is limited by available daylight, or controllers which fall to float too soon.

    Note that what Morningstar calls "sealed" are voltages that are appropriate for GEL, and not agm!  If you use the "sealed" settings with agm's, you'll quickly undercharge them.  What makes this more confusing is that in recent years, manufacturer's have deviated from the correct lower-voltage settings for gel, and in an attempt to make them more desirable for "drop in" replacement, have merely upped the voltage ratings to seem similar to agm.  Keep to the lower voltages for gels, otherwise you are just burning them up.  (info for lurkers with gel).

    Overall, I think you are doing ok, although I'd use the 14.6v setting.  You can test your temp-probe by merely disconnecting it upon arrival, and watching the voltage fall to the uncompensated values since you are in the extreme cold.



  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2017 #20
    Old Guy - your Duracell agm's are actually rebranded private label East Penn / Deka agm's.  Nice.

    For a manual, search for East Penn / Deka charging 0139.pdf file.

    Note that this document contains instructions for *both* gel and agm.  You want to be looking at the agm charts.  Page 11 shows the voltage values for a range of temps.  Essentially, anything from 14.4 to 14.6v absorb is acceptable, and 13.4 - 13.6 or so.

    The values as shown by the dipswitches assume the industry standard 68-72F range.  Your temperature probe will adjust up or down from this automatically as needed.

    Even though you are using your batteries doing weekend warrior duty, I still recommend not *babying* them instead run at the default 14.6v setting, and 13.4v float.  (your sensor will change that of course).

    No, EQ is NOT recommended for most agm's.  That is, the very high voltage type we associate with flooded, ie 15.6v or so for many hours.  Instead, agm's need a "freshening" charge every 30 days or so.  This typically means about 0.2v above normal absorb for 3 hours.  However, some controllers cannot do that, and only assume the very high voltage flooded eq type.

    Thus, this is part of the reasoning for running at the highest recommended absorb voltage with that controller, since it is incapable of doing an agm "refresh" - unless you use software for custom settings.  We'll assume you aren't going to do that.

    There are only two states to an agm - slight overcharge, or sulfated undercharge.  Given the option, one should always choose slight overcharge, so don't be afraid of using the highest recommended absorb voltage - especially when solar absorb is limited by available daylight, or controllers which fall to float too soon.

    Note that what Morningstar calls "sealed" are voltages that are appropriate for GEL, and not agm!  If you use the "sealed" settings with agm's, you'll quickly undercharge them.  What makes this more confusing is that in recent years, manufacturer's have deviated from the correct lower-voltage settings for gel, and in an attempt to make them more desirable for "drop in" replacement, have merely upped the voltage ratings to seem similar to agm.  Keep to the lower voltages for gels, otherwise you are just burning them up.  (info for lurkers with gel).

    Overall, I think you are doing ok, although I'd use the 14.6v setting.  You can test your temp-probe by merely disconnecting it upon arrival, and watching the voltage fall to the uncompensated values since you are in the extreme cold.



    Thanks @PNjunction for identifying the manufacturer, couldn't find anything for Duracell. The PDF file page 11 states @ 70-80 deg.F the optimum charging voltage is 14.3v and max 14.6V with a float of 13.4V.

    The third sealed setting for the Morningstar TS 60  is 14.35v charge, 13.4V float, which is pretty much on the money, without using software to fine tune and gives the option to conduct a boost charge.

    Morningstar goes on to say that although there is an equalization cycle, it is not a true equalization as in a flooded battery but rather a boost charge to 14.4V, in the case of the third sealed setting (temperature compensated ), and will not cause  gassing of the cells. It would therefore appear that this setting would be the optimum setting. 
    0139.pdf 315.3K
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good info. Now that we know proper voltages it makes sense to use them.

    The EQ thing still isn't really solved though. Even with settings wrong shouldn't he still be seeing it at float when he gets to the cabin? OP mentioned setting Eq to manual. I'm wondering if this switch is used to initiate an EQ manually and then moved back to auto to end the manual EQ?
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Estragon said:
    Good info. Now that we know proper voltages it makes sense to use them.

    The EQ thing still isn't really solved though. Even with settings wrong shouldn't he still be seeing it at float when he gets to the cabin? OP mentioned setting Eq to manual. I'm wondering if this switch is used to initiate an EQ manually and then moved back to auto to end the manual EQ?
    Agreed, there must be a simple explanation, if new settings are made, with power down and restart, only then will the results be known, it's so easy to miss a step and get eronious results, every change made MUST be done with power OFF, and restart, BATTERY FIRST , then solar.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    mcgivor said:

    Thanks @PNjunction for identifying the manufacturer, couldn't find anything for Duracell. The PDF file page 11 states @ 70-80 deg.F the optimum charging voltage is 14.3v and max 14.6V with a float of 13.4V.

    The third sealed setting for the Morningstar TS 60  is 14.35v charge, 13.4V float, which is pretty much on the money, without using software to fine tune and gives the option to conduct a boost charge.

    Morningstar goes on to say that although there is an equalization cycle, it is not a true equalization as in a flooded battery but rather a boost charge to 14.4V, in the case of the third sealed setting (temperature compensated ), and will not cause  gassing of the cells. It would therefore appear that this setting would be the optimum setting. 
    I second that thanks to PNjunction. And to Mcgivor for posting the file.  
    I was aware of the fact that Duracell/Deka were the same but I couldn't find that information on either site... Saved me a call this morning.  :)

    It does appear the third sealed setting would be the best after seeing this.

    The PDF says you should NOT equalize AGM batteries but a slight increase to "refresh" them occasionally is good.

    Now the question is should I change switch 8 to ON to let the controller equalize or in this case refresh the batteries or leave it in manual and activate it every few months??


  • mcgivor
    mcgivor Solar Expert Posts: 3,854 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    My opinions would be to leave it in manual and do it every 2 or 3 months if you are a weekend user.
    1500W, 6× Schutten 250W Poly panels , Schneider MPPT 60 150 CC, Schneider SW 2524 inverter, 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Battery Bodyguard BMS 
    Second system 1890W  3 × 300W No name brand poly, 3×330 Sunsolar Poly panels, Morningstar TS 60 PWM controller, no name 2000W inverter 400Ah LFP 24V nominal battery with Daly BMS, used for water pumping and day time air conditioning.  
    5Kw Yanmar clone single cylinder air cooled diesel generator for rare emergency charging and welding.
  • MStar1
    MStar1 Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭✭
    The meter indicates FLOAT when it is >15V? It stays there indefinitely?
    If so is there any charge current at all when it is in Float with >15V?
    It should not be maintaining such a high Float voltage.
    Float should be more like ~14.5V with these temperatures.
    Can you check the daily max. battery voltage? See the meter map.


    -MStar Applications EE

  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    MStar1 said:
    The meter indicates FLOAT when it is >15V? It stays there indefinitely?
    If so is there any charge current at all when it is in Float with >15V?
    It should not be maintaining such a high Float voltage.
    Float should be more like ~14.5V with these temperatures.
    Can you check the daily max. battery voltage? See the meter map.
    Yes! The meter says float green LED blinking and the voltage is always at 15.1 when I get there, and that checks out on my VOM. 
    I will check the map this weekend.  This issue is about the only thing I'm not sure of now.  Hopefully the new settings will correct this.
  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    For the record, I am using two of these batteries.  My load consists of six 4.9 watt LED bulbs and a RV water pump for the sink and toilet.
    Can someone tell me how long I could expect the two batteries to power just the six lights?

    Specifications

    • 20 amp hour rate:55
    • Battery Electrolyte Composition:Glass Mat
    • Battery End Type:Top Post
    • Battery Purpose:Starting Lighting Instrumentation
    • BCI Group Size:34M
    • CA at 32 degrees F:890
    • CCA at 0 degrees F:775
    • Freight Class:65
    • Polarity:Left Positive
    • Reserve Capacity:120
    • Terminal Type:DIN
    • Volts:12
  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    I want to thank everyone for sharing your time and knowledge.  Someday I hope to give something back to the forum but for now I will stay in the beginners forum and try to learn.  You guys are awesome and it is appreciated!  
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very roughly, at about 5w each assuming minimal wire losses (good wire gauge and/or short runs), and lights are running 12v (no inverter) load is ~5x6=30w.

    Taking batteries down below 50% shortens battery life and lower voltage = more current to power lights which could also shorten their life, so 55ah@12v=660watthours available. 660÷30=22hrs.

    Also, the battery you have isn't really designed for this. It has thin plates which provide lots of surface area to provide large currents for very short times and then get recharged quickly. They'll work, but may not last as long as a deep cycle battery designed for your application.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter
  • Old Guy
    Old Guy Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭
    Taking batteries down below 50% shortens battery life and lower voltage = more current to power lights which could also shorten their life, so 55ah@12v=660watthours available. 660÷30=22hrs.

    Forgive me but where did you get the 55ah?
  • Estragon
    Estragon Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭✭✭
    First line of specs "20 amp hour rate:55".

    Two of those in parallel would be 110ah. 50% depth of discharge is 110÷2=55ah.
    Off-grid.  
    Main daytime system ~4kw panels into 2xMNClassic150 370ah 48v bank 2xOutback 3548 inverter 120v + 240v autotransformer
    Night system ~1kw panels into 1xMNClassic150 700ah 12v bank morningstar 300w inverter