Is Interstate Batteries a good place to get copper cables and get them customized?

lolcashcow
lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
edited June 2016 in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Hi There,

Not sure if anyone remembers but a while back I asked a bunch of questions for my inverter set up. I was given all the information and only needed to get the cables to finish it.... Unfortunately I became so busy I could not get the last bits. I am still missing the copper cables and I recall someone mentioning interstate batteries as a good place to go to for cables. I think someone also mentioned that the cables need to be 'clamped and crimped'? I'm not exactly sure what that is... would the anderson connectors also need this? Here is what I will be using.

The inverter:  Xantrex prowatt sw2000 (1800W continuous 3000 Max Surge)
Copper Cables: #4/0 AWG (Cable length will be kept under 2 feet long)
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-5191-Terminal/dp/B0019ZBTV4
Blue Sea Systems 5191 Fuse Block Terminal 30-300 AMP 
http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-250A-Terminal/dp/B0026KY6R0
Blue Sea Systems 250 AMP MRBF Terminal Fuse
Anderson SB350 Connector up to 450 Amps

This is how it will look like when finished: Minus the circuit breaker.. I will use a fuse instead.

image

Basically: + Battery Terminal to Fuse. Fuse to +Anderson Connector.
Then: Car Chassis Ground to -Anderson Connector.

The inverter will have the Ground connected to the inverter's - Terminal. Then that Negative Terminal will be connected to the anderson's - connection.

Nothing will be connected to the battery's negative terminal post. There is a sensor in there, so can't do that.

Here is the anderson coennectors

httpwwwtraxidecomauAnd7AP50x4jpg

httpi01ialiimgcomimgpb807321680680321807_749jpg

i stumbled on a post by Phil Sadow (an electrical engineer in Berkeley) talking about the DC to DC converter in the nissan leaf (That's the vehicle shown above). He is the guy that added a  propane-powered gas-turbine range extender to his nissan leaf http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1070677_2012-nissan-leaf-gets-unofficial-jet-powered-range-extender-quick-charger Anyway he mentions that the DC to DC converter can supply up to about 1.7kw. I added his quote below:


"The Leaf's DC-DC converter can supply up to about 1.7kW or 135a. This unit takes ~400v power from the traction battery and makes approximately 13 volts. (varies according to charge requirements of the 12v aux battery) It should be able to power up to 1.5kW of external load with no problems, provided most of the accessories are left off.

One interesting thing is, unlike the 12v system on a ICE car, there is almost no voltage sag. The DC-DC converter is a high-frequency switch mode converter, so it can respond very fast to high current surges, whereas a normal ICE car alternator cannot, and it's also RPM dependant for maximum output.

WARNING: NEVER connect anything directly to the negative post of the Leaf's 12v aux battery! This is a current sensor and doing so will disrupt the charging system! (Connect all accessories to the body ground, or, if high-current, the black wire screwed to the top of the DC-DC JB. (Behind the inverter)

Note: I have not tested it at full load for an extended period of time, so there may be some thermal limiting that could cause output to drop after long runs of high-current use.

Here's my test:
image

-Phil"

I don't believe I will draw upon the full power of the dc to dc converter.... At the most I am thinking about 1k to 1.2k watts when I use an induction cooker to cook my meals. I used to have a coleman twin  burner stove and a big propane tank that I hauled around for about a year and a half.... Did not feel entirely safe with it, but it worked great... and I only used a single burner. I feel that now I can move on to an induction cooker and make everything all electric.


Comments

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    If you look around, you can find some pretty reasonably priced hydraulic crimpers (don't know anything about the tool or the website):

    https://powerwerx.com/hydraulic-crimping-tool-sb-powerpole-contacts

    Or, a few folks have made their own from a cheap bolt cutter. Heat the jaws and slowly cool (remove temper), drill "correct size hole" and smooth edges, reheat jaws and quench to re-temper.

    Otherwise take your wire and contacts, talk with local battery distributors, welding shops, electric fork lift repair shops, and see if you can find somebody able to do the job.

    You want to do this once, right... You don't want to end up with an unreliable/unsafe vehicle.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Great Thanks BB!

    Just one issue. I have no drills or torch to heat the items. I really have nothing not even wrenches :( I'm surprised the crimping tool costs 250! I'm starting to wonder just how much the cable job would cost... I believe someone told me that it could be done at interstate batteries which would be great if so. I actually know of one a couple of blocks away just haven't visited them because I wanted to make sure I would tell them the correct stuff that needed to be done. Someone mentioned clamp and crimp but t has been a while and even though I re-read all my previous posts I just want to be 20% sure. Would you happen to know of any official places that I can look into if interstate batteries can't do it? I'd guess the cheapest way is to do it myself but with out the tools :( .. I'm located in los angeles ca so there ae at least a lot of shops that will likely have me covered.
  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,431 admin
    I have no idea about specific shops that can do the work.

    If somebody invests in the correct tools and has the knowledge, that is a good start.

    Try the nearby shop, and if they cannot, see if they can give recommendations.

    If you spend less than $100 for 4 good crimps, may be worth it for a one time job.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    Hi lolcashcow,

    Yes Interstate can make your cables. I had them make my inverter and charger cables. You need to tell them exactly what want, each wire size (AWG) and length and which connectors or lugs go on which cables. Make sure you measure your application accurately. If your cables have bends then use a thin bendable solid wire from point to point then measure the wire. Have them use the Anderson connectors and they can supply the lugs that are needed for the other ends of those cables for the inverter and the fuse connection, probably 3/8, but check the inverter manual and fuse for connection type and size. Do the same for the battery negative frame connection.  

    Rick
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Hi Rick!

    Thanks for the awesome reply! Do you remember how much it cost? I found http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Gauge-AWG-Custom-Battery-Cables-Solar-Marine-Power-Inverter-Copper-Wire-/271564807829 and they can also custom make the cables. The configuration says $6.75  for a six inch cable with the lug connectors. Do you remember the bill for the cables at interstate batteries? Do you recommend eyelets or ring terminals for the cables? They seem to be really similar. I have been wondering if a battery lug would be an option ... but the car already has its own battery lug .. so I don't think the terminal post would be long enough to hold two battery  lugs?

    Do you think the wises approach for me would be to buy all the connectors too and just bring them so they can clam/crimp them and not get charged for the connectors? thoughts? I wonder if i buy the cables on the side and connectors could they just do a clamp and crimp job and thus charge far less?

    Also thanks BB for the reply :)
  • Iceni John
    Iceni John Solar Expert Posts: 103 ✭✭
    edited June 2016 #7
    Great Thanks BB!

    Just one issue. I have no drills or torch to heat the items. I really have nothing not even wrenches :( I'm surprised the crimping tool costs 250! I'm starting to wonder just how much the cable job would cost... I believe someone told me that it could be done at interstate batteries which would be great if so. I actually know of one a couple of blocks away just haven't visited them because I wanted to make sure I would tell them the correct stuff that needed to be done. Someone mentioned clamp and crimp but t has been a while and even though I re-read all my previous posts I just want to be 20% sure. Would you happen to know of any official places that I can look into if interstate batteries can't do it? I'd guess the cheapest way is to do it myself but with out the tools :( .. I'm located in los angeles ca so there ae at least a lot of shops that will likely have me covered.

    The solution costs less than $200:  http://www.kljack.com/default.aspx?page=item+detail&itemcode=ET50116     The FTZ 94294 is a good circumferential crimper that will fuse the lug and wire strands into one solid indivisible mass (so-called "cold welding"), and it works on moderately-small sizes all the way up to 250 MCM which is larger than 4/0.   Decent tin-plated closed-end 4/0 copper lugs are cheaper from NAWS than almost anywhere else, and you can get 4/0 welding cable for $4 or less per foot.   Do all of this, and you'll have cables as good as or better than "professionally-made" cables that sometimes are very inadequately crimped.   You can also make your cables exactly the right length, and even orient the lugs the right way for each application.   Fun!

    I also have a small Harbor Fright hydraulic crimper that makes quite good hexagonal crimps on smaller lugs, but its dies' sizes are complete fiction  -  I just use whatever works best, regardless of what size it says it is!   This crimper is also useful for squeezing short lengths of copper tube onto cable ends that will be clamped under pinch bolts  -  this also makes a solid end that won't distort or crush when clamped tight, much better than trying to secure loose-stranded cable under pinch bolts and set screws.

    Spending extra time and care now will result in a much more reliable system in the future. 

    John

    40' Crown bus with 2kW of tiltable panels on the roof:

    Eight Sharp 255W, two Morningstar TS-MPPT-60, Magnum MS2000, Champion C46540 generator converted to propane, eight golfcart batteries, and maybe a small Exeltech inverter for the fridger.

    Southern California

  • Iceni John
    Iceni John Solar Expert Posts: 103 ✭✭
    edited June 2016 #8

    Oops, should be FTZ 94284 for the crimper item number.

    Also, a mystery semi-colon has parked itself at the end of the URL, so you may need to copy & paste this link.   Anyway, KL Jack has the lowest price I've found for this crimper, and it works well.   One more thing  -  you'll also need a good big cable cutter, but they're a dime a dozen (OK, less than $40) on eBay, better than chewing through the cable with your teeth or using your old Swiss Army knife.   Add some heatshrink, and you'll be a cable guru.

    John

    (How does one amend or correct postings here now?   One used to be able to do so previously.)

    40' Crown bus with 2kW of tiltable panels on the roof:

    Eight Sharp 255W, two Morningstar TS-MPPT-60, Magnum MS2000, Champion C46540 generator converted to propane, eight golfcart batteries, and maybe a small Exeltech inverter for the fridger.

    Southern California

  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    How does one amend or correct postings here now?   One used to be able to do so previously.
    Look at the post you want to edit... there is a little gear in the upper right corner.  You can edit your post for a week.

    --vtMaps
    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Hi John,

    Thanks for dropping by. I think this is the wire crimper you mentioned? http://www.kljack.com/default.aspx?page=item detail&itemcode=ET50116 for $170 :) and I found the one from harbor freight http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html  it says $55 but it loooks like it can't handle the 0/4 gauge :(. It seems it can do up to 0/2? but some say it can only do up to 6awg? from what people say here

    http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/caution-harbor-freight-49-95-hyfdraulic-30951.html

    Main thing is that past this use I don't know when I would use the tool again :( I don't have any other tools to begin with so I'm not handy at all with them :(. I do see the huge benefit of getting one of these though, but past this use here I just don't now when I will use it again. I'd feel guilty of the tool gathering dust on the shelf :(


  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    I can't remember exactly what they cost. I had 5 2/0 cables from 12 to 24 inches long and 4 #4 AWG 2 to 3 feet long and 1 maybe 9 inches. I think it was around 70 dollars. I believe it's about 3 bucks per crimp/termination and a dollar or so for the lugs plus cable costs. The one I went to did really nice work. Here are a couple of pics of the cables during my install.


     
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Hi Rick,

    That looks really nice. 10 cables done for 70$ seems like a very reasonable cost. How long ago did you say you got them? My guess is that prices have likely gone up. I wonder if they would still do a clam and crimp if you bring your own cables and eyelets/ring terminals. By the way hat is the difference between eyelets and ring terminals? They seem so similar it makes me wonder if they have specific different uses
  • Raj174
    Raj174 Solar Expert Posts: 795 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2016 #13
    It's been a few months since I bought the them and needless to say the #4 cables were cheaper than the 2/0. I can't say that I know the difference in the terminals you speak of. If I were you I would take myself, my connectors, my questions and my money to Interstate and find out.  
    4480W PV, MNE175DR-TR, MN Classic 150, Outback Radian GS4048A, Mate3, 51.2V 360AH nominal LiFePO4, Kohler Pro 5.2E genset.
  • Iceni John
    Iceni John Solar Expert Posts: 103 ✭✭
    Hi John,

    Thanks for dropping by. I think this is the wire crimper you mentioned? http://www.kljack.com/default.aspx?page=item detail&itemcode=ET50116 for $170 :) and I found the one from harbor freight http://www.harborfreight.com/hydraulic-wire-crimping-tool-66150.html  it says $55 but it loooks like it can't handle the 0/4 gauge :(. It seems it can do up to 0/2? but some say it can only do up to 6awg? from what people say here

    http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/caution-harbor-freight-49-95-hyfdraulic-30951.html

    Main thing is that past this use I don't know when I would use the tool again :( I don't have any other tools to begin with so I'm not handy at all with them :(. I do see the huge benefit of getting one of these though, but past this use here I just don't now when I will use it again. I'd feel guilty of the tool gathering dust on the shelf :(



    Yup, that's the one from K.L.Jack.   I can't get the HF link to open, but those generic Chinese hydraulic crimpers are sold under many names  -  HF just happens to be convenient for me, plus their prices are low when they have their frequent sales.   The biggest true size that works in it is about 2AWG.

    Here's another idea  -  make the long and arduous journey down the 405 to Orange County (you said you're in Los Angeles), and I'll be happy to crimp your lugs onto your cables.   My tools are in my bus that's stored in Costa Mesa.   PM me if you're interested in doing this.

    John

    40' Crown bus with 2kW of tiltable panels on the roof:

    Eight Sharp 255W, two Morningstar TS-MPPT-60, Magnum MS2000, Champion C46540 generator converted to propane, eight golfcart batteries, and maybe a small Exeltech inverter for the fridger.

    Southern California

  • lolcashcow
    lolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    edited June 2016 #15
    Hey John!

    Thanks it looks to be at least a 100 mile round tip to get there and I still don't have any cables, or terminal rings. Is it better to order them online for lowest cost? So basically buy the terminal rings from here and the cables from.... any suggestions? speaking about those I am still a little confused on where the terminal rings will go on the + battery the thread in the leaf doesn't mention  it http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13097

    httpiimgurcom5a4tcvIjpg

    In that thread it looks like the connection is done where the washer and nut is. Is that a proper place to connect these big cables? I'm not good with the proper terms here but I believe the big round metal on the center where the battery lug is wrapped around is called a sae post right? I kind of wanted to give one of the cables a battery lug but it doesn't seem like there is enough space for another right? Do we put ring terminals on sae posts?