Help me pick an Inverter out of these brand names (Reliability?).

lolcashcowlolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
edited January 2016 in Solar Beginners Corner #1
Hi Guys,

 I made a list here of puresinewave inverters and I need help picking one out. From what I have herd the xantrex is a good brand name. My budget is about 350$ but if there are other reliable brand name inverters that can provide 1.8k watts continuous or more out there please let me know.

I'm going to use the inverter with my Nissan Leaf's lead acid battery. The DC-DC controller will recharge the battery at around 1.6k watts to 1.8k. Mainly I want to use it with a small induction cooker or a blender. I actually asked about it here in this thread. The induction cooker has selectable levels and I will be keeping it below 1.8k. I'm hoping this will let me cook eggs in a small cast iron skillet.

http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/346538/inverter-for-an-induction-cooker-and-refrigerator-running-off-starter-battery?_=1439098106297

The manual suggest 0/4 AWG for the xantrex. Do you guys think this is what I should go with? The manual is quoted mid way this threadd here

http://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/15209/xantrex-prowatt-sw2000-testing

I will be keeping the inverter a foot away from the battery. so I believe that is the length I will need for the wires.

Here is the list:


$360
Xantrex PROWatt 2000 Inverter 
http://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-PROWatt-Inverter-Model-806-1220/dp/B002LGEMOQ/

$270
MicroSolar - 2000W (Peak 4000W) Pure Sine Wave Inverter - with Remote Wire Controller
http://www.amazon.com/MicroSolar-2000W-Inverter-Remote-Controller/dp/B00GZBHFMY/ref=pd_sbs_263_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=51Z-IrcAxNL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR156,160_&refRID=15WGBZ57GAARD2E5BJ0A

$270
Reliable 2000w Pure Sine Wave Inverter 12v 120v 60hz LED Display Solar Power Inverter (Black)
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01114J6T4?psc=1

$240
PowerTech ON Advanced Technology PURE SINE WAVE Inverter 2000w Cont/4000w Peak, 12v Dc -120v Ac W/black & Red Cables W/ring Terminals, Remote Switch, Protection System & 4 Output Sockets-PS1003
http://www.amazon.com/PowerTech-ON-Technology-Protection-Sockets-PS1003/dp/B0131NFWX2/ref=pd_sim_422_2?ie=UTF8&dpID=51dLLRSg41L&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=10CZECGF99WA7M93AMHQ

$250
Voltec 10-00487 2000W Pure Sine Inverter
http://www.amazon.com/Voltec-10-00487-2000W-Pure-Inverter/dp/B004JPMJD8





And here is the induction cooker info

I'm going to buy this induction cooktop: DUXTOP 1800-Watt Portable Induction Cooktop Countertop Burner 9100MC at Amazon.

15 power levels 200W, 300W, 400W, 500W, 600W, 700W, 800W, 900W, 1000W, 1100W, 1200W, 1300W, 1500W, 1600W, 1800W;
15 temperature range from 140°F, 160°F, 180°F, 200°F, 220°F, 240°F, 260°F, 280°F, 300°F, 320°F, 340°F, 370°F, 400°F, 430°F, 460°F;
Product Built to North American Electrical Standards, 120V 60Hz AC

It uses up to 1800 watts and i will use it with a nice cast iron skillet that is 8" in diameter.

I will use that cooktop and also my old blender which I have. I wrote down the details of it here:

Ozterizer
Dual Range
Pulse Matic 12

Maker is Oster I believe
on the bottom it says

120 volts
375 watts
25-60 hz max freq
A.C. Only
made in mexico? at least not chinese

Comments

  • oil pan 4oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 613 ✭✭✭✭

    I like the Xantrex, I use the 1000 watt version.

    You can also go with doubled up 2 gauge to the inverter. This is what my samlex 2000w inverter recommends.

    Only thing I can recommend is lose the induction cooker and go with propane or some other form of combustion.

    Then you have the problem of the leaf lead acid battery is it will go dead before it could provide enough power to cook anything. This seems like a bad idea.

    The blender should work, you would only need to run that for no more than a minute at a time.

    For my 2000 watt samlex inverter I power it with a 87 amp hour lithium Iron Phosphate battery and I only use about 1,500 watts to power my welder for usually 5 to 90 seconds at a time, rarely for more than 1 minute or skill saw that draws around 1,200 watts for up to 1 minute max. The while running the inverter hard the battery has up to between a 30 and 60 amp recharge going into it.

    To cook something you are going to need at least 5 minutes.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • zonebluezoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭✭
    I know decent inverters are expensive, but unfortunately thats just how it is. Just be careful going too cheap. Samlex, Exceltec or Xantrex is as cheap as you should go. Anything else will lilely give you grief.
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


  • lolcashcowlolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    edited January 2016 #4
    oil pan 4 said:

    I like the Xantrex, I use the 1000 watt version.

    You can also go with doubled up 2 gauge to the inverter. This is what my samlex 2000w inverter recommends.

    Only thing I can recommend is lose the induction cooker and go with propane or some other form of combustion.

    Then you have the problem of the leaf lead acid battery is it will go dead before it could provide enough power to cook anything. This seems like a bad idea.

    The blender should work, you would only need to run that for no more than a minute at a time.

    For my 2000 watt samlex inverter I power it with a 87 amp hour lithium Iron Phosphate battery and I only use about 1,500 watts to power my welder for usually 5 to 90 seconds at a time, rarely for more than 1 minute or skill saw that draws around 1,200 watts for up to 1 minute max. The while running the inverter hard the battery has up to between a 30 and 60 amp recharge going into it.

    To cook something you are going to need at least 5 minutes.

    Hi Oil Pan,

    I used to use Propane, but I am now moving on lol. The reason is simple. The places I visit allow me to recharge my Electric car for  free while I am there (Shopping, Work, etc) so I won't have to pay for any propane. I used to  use my Propane tank often enough cooking around 3 times a day, so now i can just use an induction cooker.

    The DC to DC Converter on the Nissan Leaf recharges the car's Lead Acid Battery at a rate of about 1.6k watts. The Nissan Leaf is an electric car with a 24kWh 360 V lithium-ion battery pack. The DC to DC Converter is connected to the big pack and recharges the car's Lead Acid when it detects it is being drained. This should protect the Lead Acid from being discharged dead for as long as I don't take out more than what the DC to DC converter puts in... right?

    I'm confused on doubling up 2 AWG. How do you do this exactly? I have no wires ATM so I have to order everything to begin. Would this just be significantly cheaper than 0/4 AWG? or 0/2 AWG? What about resistance loses, etc? I'd rather this set up be as efficient as possible though with the amount of money I'll be paying for an inverter

    [quote]I know decent inverters are expensive, but unfortunately thats just how it is. Just be careful going too cheap. Samlex, Exceltec or Xantrex is as cheap as you should go. Anything else will lilely give you grief.[/quote]

    Thank you for letting me know Zone blue :) I think the 2k watt samlex I saw on amazon was 655$ :( so it is a bit higher than what I'd like to spend. Is Samlex Superior to Xantrex?

    http://www.amazon.com/Samlex-2000W-Pure-Inverter-PST-2000-24/dp/B00AYH6AK8

    Also, do you guys think I should buy a fuse box and place on betwen the battery and inverter? Will this help protect anything? Is it worth it?

    Also someone maentioned cotek 2000w inverter and in amazon that is $720 at amazon http://www.amazon.com/COTEK-SK2000-112-HEAVY-INVERTER-OUTLETS/dp/B006W9OM5C so I guess im not good at picking out goood inverters.

    So basically everything I picked is crap except for the xantrex?


  • westbranchwestbranch Solar Expert Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭✭
    Just a quick thought<  are you planning this to be a more permanent install to power your house at some time, if so that X &/ or the Cotek inverter can  NOT be hardwired, it is meant for temporary power supply to an extension cord..
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge, Hughes1100 Sat Modem
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • BrockBrock Solar Expert Posts: 629 ✭✭✭
    I have also had bad luck going the less expensive route.  Go with the xantrex, I ahve the PROwatt 2000 and it has been great.  I only have 2 AWG, about 2 feet and have had no problem powering the inverter from the LEAF.

    If your over on the Leaf forums take a look here.

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=13097

    burried in that thread I posted



    I finally got to try this out last night. I have a Xantrex Prowatt SW2000. I have the inverter connected with 24" #2 welding cable and big beefy jumper cable clips. I turned the leaf on in park, with the parking break on then connected the positive to the positive on the battery, then connected the negative to the body of the top part of the motor. I turned on the inverter to find it sitting at a nice, 13.2v. I connected up a 1650w electric heater starting first on low at 600w, the voltage dropped a bit to 13.0v and I let it sit for a few minutes checking the connection to make sure nothing got warm. Then I turned it up to 1650w, to my surprise the voltage still only dipped to 12.8v and some of that is likely due to the #2 wire and clips. Again I ran it for about 5 minutes and nothing got warm.

    So I think this a great back up to my backup. We have 18kw of flooded lead acid batteries (8 L-16's) with a xantrex 6048 that produces 6000w at 240vac powering most of the load in the home (not electric dryer or EVSE or geothermal). Typically I charge the batteries via 3kw of solar and the inverter has a sell mode that supports any down stream loads with excess power. I can also charge the batteries via a Honda 2000i and a 120vac to 48 charger, an iota DLS-54-13 and had been using an idling car as backup with the smaller inverter but now I have another "silent" power source.

    I doubt I will use it much, but it's nice to know I have it and nice to know if someone else is without power I could just pull up and run an extension cord.
    3kw solar PV, 8 L16's, xw 5548, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Leaf EV, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • zonebluezoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭✭
    Cotek and Samlex are made by the same company as i understand it. They are equivalent. People here have had good experiences with Prosine. You can also pick them up used quite cheap.
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


  • oil pan 4oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 613 ✭✭✭✭

    The only problem I see is the leaf DC to DC charger we all know it was not designed to run a gigantic power inverter.

    I know when the engineers designed it they weren't thinking "what about when some one hooks up a 2kw power inverter to the battery"?

    Maybe it will work, but you need to be prepared to possibly replace that DC to DC converter in case it doesn't.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • lolcashcowlolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Just a quick thought<  are you planning this to be a more permanent install to power your house at some time, if so that X &/ or the Cotek inverter can  NOT be hardwired, it is meant for temporary power supply to an extension cord..
    Definitely not a permanent install. I will be using it with my leaf mainly and later on if I get another EV I'd like to do the same. For home that is a long way off :) Definitely not permanent though.

    zoneblue said:
    Cotek and Samlex are made by the same company as i understand it. They are equivalent. People here have had good experiences with Prosine. You can also pick them up used quite cheap.

    Great thanks for letting me know ! :) I definitely don't want to go the used route :( I'd hate to get a used unit and have it died out soon. I would feel like I made a poor decision.
    Brock said:
    duplicate post

    Hi Brock Thanks for letting me know about your work :) In the thread you linked it looks like they are using some kind of special connector to the lead acid do you know what it is called? I think the guy made it himself but how can I make something like that? I like that it makes the inverter 'plug and play'. what parts do I need for this? This makes using the inverter extremely easy. Pop the hood, plug in, enjoy! Could someone chime in on how I could make something like this for my leaf? Do they sell kits like these online? What are they called?


  • lolcashcowlolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    Just a quick thought<  are you planning this to be a more permanent install to power your house at some time, if so that X &/ or the Cotek inverter can  NOT be hardwired, it is meant for temporary power supply to an extension cord..
    Definitely not a permanent install. I will be using it with my leaf mainly and later on if I get another EV I'd like to do the same. For home that is a long way off :) Definitely not permanent though.

    zoneblue said:
    Cotek and Samlex are made by the same company as i understand it. They are equivalent. People here have had good experiences with Prosine. You can also pick them up used quite cheap.

    Great thanks for letting me know ! :) I definitely don't want to go the used route :( I'd hate to get a used unit and have it died out soon. I would feel like I made a poor decision.
    Brock said:
    duplicate post

    Hi Brock Thanks for letting me know about your work :) In the thread you linked it looks like they are using some kind of special connector to the lead acid do you know what it is called? I think the guy made it himself but how can I make something like that? I like that it makes the inverter 'plug and play'. what parts do I need for this? This makes using the inverter extremely easy. Pop the hood, plug in, enjoy! Could someone chime in on how I could make something like this for my leaf? Do they sell kits like these online? What are they called?


  • BrockBrock Solar Expert Posts: 629 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016 #11
    I am not familiar with which connectors he used, but they are quite common on machines like floor scrubbers, fork lifts and other big equipment with batteries in them.  I bet someone will post shortly which ones those are or which might be better suited for leaving installed under the hood of a Leaf (that never gets hot).  The advantage of it is he already has the fuse inline and mounted and its a simple plug it in and your good to go.

    I just use 2 feet of #2 with heavy duty jumper cable clamps.  I often take that when we go up to the cabin and can use it with any idling vehicle if necessary to run the basic's.

    Oh, Oilman the DC-DC converter is in the inverter stack (the metal part under the "zero emission" in the picture above) and when ever the car is on it runs a circulation pump to the small radiator, no matter how cold it is outside, which I don't like  :)   I would image it might get warm when driving the car down the road at 80 mph, but the small load of 1000w wouldn't warm it up that much.  But your right on the component itself that it might not like to be run flat out for a long time, I figure if it is rated at 1600 watts if you keep it under 1000w you shouldn't be taxing it to much.  I have run mine for 4 hours during an outage powering our DLS 54-13 which pulls just about 800w and nothing got warm at all, not the Xantrex, the cables or the inverter stack with the DC-DC in the Leaf, the radiator went from 44 to 46 over the 4 hours.
    3kw solar PV, 8 L16's, xw 5548, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Leaf EV, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • Blackcherry04Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,486 ✭✭✭
    edited January 2016 #12
    Those are " Anderson " type connectors used in Fork lift, on wreckers for attaching jumpers cables , etc. The Pull Handle is a accessory you can add to them.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,872 admin
    Here is a link to the 175 Amp version of the Anderson:

    http://www.solar-electric.com/sb-175-1-0.html

    -Bill

    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • zonebluezoneblue Solar Expert Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭✭
    zoneblue said:
    Cotek and Samlex are made by the same company as i understand it. They are equivalent. People here have had good experiences with Prosine. You can also pick them up used quite cheap.
    lolcashcow said:
    Great thanks for letting me know ! :) I definitely don't want to go the used route :( I'd hate to get a used unit and have it died out soon. I would feel like I made a poor decision.
    Oh man, youve yet to live until youve bought your first cheap chinese inverter and had it die in the first week. Inverters are not like TVs.  Give me a used Prosine ahead of  a Wun Hung Lo anyday.
    1.8kWp CSUN, 10kWh AGM, Midnite Classic 150, Outback VFX3024E,
    http://zoneblue.org/cms/page.php?view=off-grid-solar


  • solar_davesolar_dave Solar Expert Posts: 2,331 ✭✭✭✭
    I have a similar setup for my Volt which has a DC-DC converter in the 175 amp range.  It works pretty good no problems but I am using a 1500 watt Samlex to limit the drain.  A few guys have done 2000 watt inverter but a bit more conservative here.  BTW both of our Volts are rigged the same.
  • oil pan 4oil pan 4 Solar Expert Posts: 613 ✭✭✭✭
    I use SB175 Anderson with my LiFePO4 battery packs. They are the way to go.

    Solar hybrid gasoline generator, 7kw gas, 180 watts of solar, Morningstar 15 amp MPPT, group 31 AGM, 900 watt kisae inverter.

    Solar roof top GMC suburban, a normal 3/4 ton suburban with 180 watts of panels on the roof and 10 amp genasun MPPT, 2000w samlex pure sine wave inverter, 12v gast and ARB air compressors.

  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭✭
    Definitely steer clear of unknown brands with no known track record. Investors have involved the world in a race to the bottom of prices and quality. It is not difficult to find a Chinese factory to build something to the specs of an investor/distributor who seeks to establish a market simply by under cutting prices.

    Cheapest price may be fine for certain things...probably not for the inverter. Seems like most of us can recall that cheap Chinese pure sine wave "no name" that never worked or quit working very soon.

    It is pretty easy to find low quality sine waves peddling themselves are pure sine wave. \

    Lots of experience on this board.

    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B01114J6T4?psc=1
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 150 watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
  • lolcashcowlolcashcow Solar Expert Posts: 118 ✭✭
    edited January 2016 #18
    Hi guys,

    Thank you I will pick the Xantrex for my inverter :)

    I read the post in the leaf forum and the guy actually listed what he used for the inverter connection

    The inverter is a Xantrex PROWatt SW True Sine Wave Inverter model SW1000.
    The breaker trips at 150 amps.
    The Connectors are 175 Amp Anderson SB175-02-YEL

    The ground is run to a CAST copper fitting, attached to the "spare" ground hole in the inverter housing with a 5/16" SS Nut/ Bolt/ Washer, with a "Holesaw Made" 3/4" X 1/8" lead crush washer and covered (tastefully) in electrical anti-corrosion goo.

    The "exposed" positive terminals on the Breaker were covered with 3 coats of black "PlastiDip" to insulate them from any little tool-touchy Boo-Boo's in the future.
    The Bracket is made from Scrap 3/16 6061 T6 aluminum plate

    There is a piece of T6 1" angle in there as a battery hold down, and a spacer to clear the "stuff" sticking up from the top of the Battery.
    All the screws are SS M6/1.0 and tapped into the Bracket.
    It uses the original battery hold down hardware, just with a "new" top bracket.


    For the bracket he mentions aluminum is this a must ? Can it be something else? I am unsure how to  mold/shape something like that. I was thinking on making it with wood but I  bet that is a disaster waiting to happen?

    Also is the breaker a better choice than a fuse holder with a fuse?
  • South AfricaSouth Africa Solar Expert Posts: 294 ✭✭✭
    Just got this in.

    We all know a Nissan Leaf's do not use regular lead acid batteries. To protect the batteries there is a computer inside the car to manage that for the user of the car, to ensure maximum lifespan of the batteries.

    By connecting a inverter to a Leaf's battery may well work, but the batteries may not be protected anymore, as the computer is bypassed.
  • BB.BB. Super Moderators Posts: 26,872 admin
    edited December 6 #20
    Generally, a breaker is nice because it also gives you an On/Off switch too.

    And for the more expensive/larger fuses, if you have to replace one blown fuse, you may end up paying more for 2 fuses+holder vs 1 breaker+DIN rail/box.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • BrockBrock Solar Expert Posts: 629 ✭✭✭
    South Africa, we are suggesting connecting the inverter to the Leaf's Aux 12v lead acid battery, not to the 400v traction pack.  All the cars safety stuff is still on line and the Leaf is converting the 400vdc to 12vdc and then we use the 12vdc to power the inverter / loads.

    There is a "Leaf to Home" system that does connect to the main traction pack via the chademo connector, but they are only available in Japan and I believe around $7,000, they have lots of safety stuff built in, for good reason.
    3kw solar PV, 8 L16's, xw 5548, Honda eu2000i, iota DLS-54-13, Leaf EV, 4 ton horizontal geothermal, grid tied - Green Bay, WI
  • PhotowhitPhotowhit Solar Expert Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭✭
    Mena said:
    Xantrex 2000w power inverter is great, though the price is higher. I have a 2000w power inverter already not a pure sine wave one like xantrex. Sometimes I find it can't charge my 1000w blender and sometimes can. I'm not sure whether it is because my 2000w inverter is modified sine wave type. If so, I think I also should buy the  xantrex. 

    Often if you have a sometimes it will sometimes it won't problem, it will be a voltage sag problem with the battery bank and you will be able to run with solar support, but not without. Modified sine wave inverters use more energy with motors, your 1000 watt load may well be over 1200 watt load on the batteries. If you have a 12 volt system that would be 100 amp load which is quite large.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Prosine 1800 and Exeltech 1100, ForkLift battery. Off grid for @13 of last 14 years. 1000 watts being added to current CC, @2700 watts to be added with an additional CC.
  • softdownsoftdown Solar Expert Posts: 1,558 ✭✭✭✭
    BB. said:
    Here is a link to the 175 Amp version of the Anderson:

    http://www.solar-electric.com/sb-175-1-0.html

    -Bill

    I tend to like these forklift type connections. Plenty of surface area in the contact and they can be connected/disconnected without undue danger in my opinion. Unless the installation was horribly sloppy, the sturdy plastic insulates the user from the wiring. 

    They come in different colors. Each color corresponds to a different amp rating I believe. Logic is that various forklifts will be "named" to its own charger. Example....forklift with blue andersons get charged by charger with blue andersons. 

    Still....best to have a circuit breaker or fuse between your inverter and battery. 
    First Bank:16 180 watt Grape Solar with  FM80 controller and 3648 Inverter....Fullriver 8D AGM solar batteries. Second Bank/MacGyver Special: 10 150 watt BP Solar with Renogy MPPT 40A controller/ and Xantrex C-35 PWM controller/ and Morningstar PWM controller...Cotek 24V PSW inverter....forklift and diesel locomotive batteries
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