programming mate for generator question

elesaver
elesaver Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭
I'm working at connecting my Honda EU3000is to my VFX 3624 inverter.  Here's the question:  there is a choice of "generator" or "cord" for the current source supplied to the inverter.  Since the Honda EU3000is is delivering 120VAC to the inverter via plug in at the generator, it would seem to me that I would choose the "cord" option.  There is a port at the Honda EU3000is to use for charging 12V batteries with a special cable, but I have a 24 volt system.  I'd appreciate the suggestions if someone is willing.

Meanwhile, may I also ask an additional question?  of course you can, I say.  So, I've just installed (last week) a 24V forklift battery system.  The manufacturer suggested 2.32V per cell at bulk and 2.21 at float.  I have not achieved either of those numbers.  I have ending amps set at 4.8.  We've had some rainy weather for the last 4 days but prior to that, I had absorb time set beginning at 1 hour and then increasing a bit at a time to 2 hours.  I don't want to "cook" these puppies so I've been hesitant to overdo.  I've taken the SG readings and they have been 1265 but are suggested to be 1285.  It all may come down to more absorb time but confirmation is always a good thing.  Thanks in advance.
1st system:  24Vsystem with 8 X 300W panels, Midnite Solar combiner box, Midnite Solar mini-dc disconnect, Midnite Solar Classic 150, Outback VFX 3524 with mate, 2 X 12V  fforklift batteries in series 938 aH,  (Outback PSX transformer, Honda EU3000is...not currently hooked up but available if/when needed)

2nd system:  24V system with 4 X 310W panels, Midnite Solar combiner box, Midnite Solar mini-dc disconnect, Midnite Solar Classic 200, Cotek 1500W pure sine inverter, Trojan 125 batteries (8 available but "currently" using 4)

Comments

  • vtmaps
    vtmaps Solar Expert Posts: 3,741 ✭✭✭✭
    elesaver said:
    There is a port at the Honda EU3000is to use for charging 12V batteries with a special cable, but I have a 24 volt system. 
    Those ports have limited power, and a charging profile that is not suitable for RE batteries. 

    elesaver said:
    I had absorb time set beginning at 1 hour and then increasing a bit at a time to 2 hours.  I don't want to "cook" these puppies so I've been hesitant to overdo.  I've taken the SG readings and they have been 1265 but are suggested to be 1285.
    Cook them.  Do whatever you must to get the SG up to 1.285.

    --vtMaps

    4 X 235watt Samsung, Midnite ePanel, Outback VFX3524 FM60 & mate, 4 Interstate L16, trimetric, Honda eu2000i
  • elesaver
    elesaver Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭
    When we get some sun again, I will raise the absorb time.  The system goes into float before the lower absorb time is met so I'll have to raise the levels for both absorb and float.

    I'm still looking for the answer to setting the mate for the ac input:  is it to be cord or generator?  Here's the question from the post:

    Since the Honda EU3000is is delivering 120VAC to the inverter via plug in at the generator, it would seem to me that I would choose the "cord" option.  There is a port at the Honda EU3000is to use for charging 12V batteries with a special cable, but I have a 24 volt system.  I'd appreciate the suggestions if someone is willing.


    1st system:  24Vsystem with 8 X 300W panels, Midnite Solar combiner box, Midnite Solar mini-dc disconnect, Midnite Solar Classic 150, Outback VFX 3524 with mate, 2 X 12V  fforklift batteries in series 938 aH,  (Outback PSX transformer, Honda EU3000is...not currently hooked up but available if/when needed)

    2nd system:  24V system with 4 X 310W panels, Midnite Solar combiner box, Midnite Solar mini-dc disconnect, Midnite Solar Classic 200, Cotek 1500W pure sine inverter, Trojan 125 batteries (8 available but "currently" using 4)

  • Aguarancher
    Aguarancher Solar Expert Posts: 315 ✭✭✭
    I would use generator input. Generally speaking cord voltage (grid) is tighter specs than a generator and that is why they have the 2 inputs. just my opinion
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2015 #5
    There are several differences in why choosing the different inputs can be attractive. The differences in the way they handle the float option is different I believe. In the GEN setting the it's a 3 stage ( Bulk, Absorb & Float ). In the Cord ( Grid ) I think it uses the Bulk, Absorb, Float & Re-Float, this allows for PV input to the batteries.

    Off-Grid you can set 2 different ACin settings. Lets say the Cord is 20 amps ACin and Gen is 8 amps. You can toggle back and forth with setup > FX> input  when charging and make better use of the ECO settings of the Generator for fuel consumption and lower sound output, these settings can be changed on the fly. The power share will function to raise and lower the charger Aac amps based on your loads.

    As a disclaimer I have  GVFX and a Honda EU2000, so your settings could be different, I also have a Mate1 and the verbiage may be different.
  • elesaver
    elesaver Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭
    Thanks to all for the input.  The ac amps in of 8 amps for the generator is helpful.  This morning, the aH total (via Whizbang, Jr) is almost back to full.  I had removed the loads so "nothing" was going out.   It continues to rain here with little sun so I will be waiting a few days to do more tinkering.  Because of this long stretch with no sun, it has been a perfect time to explore the settings that I need for perhaps some additional long days ahead and those long days may be without access to grid power as an alternative!  It pays to be ready. :-)
    1st system:  24Vsystem with 8 X 300W panels, Midnite Solar combiner box, Midnite Solar mini-dc disconnect, Midnite Solar Classic 150, Outback VFX 3524 with mate, 2 X 12V  fforklift batteries in series 938 aH,  (Outback PSX transformer, Honda EU3000is...not currently hooked up but available if/when needed)

    2nd system:  24V system with 4 X 310W panels, Midnite Solar combiner box, Midnite Solar mini-dc disconnect, Midnite Solar Classic 200, Cotek 1500W pure sine inverter, Trojan 125 batteries (8 available but "currently" using 4)

  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2015 #7
    I just used the 8 amps as a example, The Honda EU 2000 will idle at about 400w output. I set my gen ACin to 5 - 6 amps and that will give me about 25 - 30 amps DC charger and the bypass will draw what it needs for a refrigerator. I can get 7-8 hrs or more on a gallon of gas. Unless I am going to cook, heat water or something that needs more power it run up to 18 hrs a day at times.

    You'll waste a lot of gas trying to fast charge your batteries at times. Think of the tortoise and the hare. One thing I have learned with the Honda, don't let it sit there and lug all day in ECO throttle, about every 5 hrs or so kick the ECO off and let it run 15 minutes or so and burn the carbon out of the rings and cylinder.
  • elesaver
    elesaver Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭
    Thanks, Blackcherry04.  I understand the idea of not trying to re-charge at a fast pace.  How would I figure the wattage output at idle of this generator?  Perhaps that is given in the manual?  I'll give a look to see what I can find.  That would be good to know.  (Or maybe you just know how to figure things. :smile: )
    1st system:  24Vsystem with 8 X 300W panels, Midnite Solar combiner box, Midnite Solar mini-dc disconnect, Midnite Solar Classic 150, Outback VFX 3524 with mate, 2 X 12V  fforklift batteries in series 938 aH,  (Outback PSX transformer, Honda EU3000is...not currently hooked up but available if/when needed)

    2nd system:  24V system with 4 X 310W panels, Midnite Solar combiner box, Midnite Solar mini-dc disconnect, Midnite Solar Classic 200, Cotek 1500W pure sine inverter, Trojan 125 batteries (8 available but "currently" using 4)

  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,422 admin
    Put a Kill-a-Watt meter (or other pure Watt Meter) on your eu2000i. You will quickly see what is happening with loads/charging/generator running.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2015 #10
    Here is the Fuel charting for a Honda EU2000, you might be able to extrapolate it to your generator. Finding the secrets of power manipulation is a lot trial and error. After many years I am still learning and make changes all the time to the way I do things. I have a GFX so I can use the Generator / Grid support and that helps some ( small generator, small inverter, double power output ), but it adds a different wrinkle to the way I do some things to take advantage of it and make them work together. I think you'll do fine with you system.

    Basically you have two expendable costs with Batteries and Fuel, if you drop the equipment costs and consider the PV input as free, it becomes all about balance and use of your resources.

    Your Forklift Battery is a big factor your going to have to work out. Off Grid the best scheme is going to be using 80% to 40% soc and bring to a full charge every 7-10 days. If you have enough power, you can do it daily, but I doubt you can. Full Charge ( 100% charge ) day is a day that you can do a lot of things you only need to do once a week, like washing clothes, if your going to run the generator, don't waste the power. Your going to have to Equalize it once a month or so also.

    I used 40% soc as the lower limit because your going to have voltage sag that might limit the amount of current you'll be able to use, that is something your going to have to test. You can go to heaver cabling and mitigate it some, but it's the nature of traction batteries. 





  • elesaver
    elesaver Solar Expert Posts: 185 ✭✭
    Now that's what I call information!  I'll have to spend some time "digesting" the chart.  I know that I'm going to have to learn to work with these batteries.  In the past, I had 12 ea Trojan 125's in 3 strings.  With them, I learned a lot about how to manage.  They were used batteries when I started but they performed well, at least for me.  This present set up has more aH to work with so it's a matter of learning the settings to keep it up to specs.  My recent change has been to increase the absorb time and to raise the voltage for the re-bulk.  From what I've seen today, that is helping.  I have not done new SG readings but will do so after it gets dark and the batteries have rested for a time.  I believe that's the recommended procedure.  What has been happening is that via Whizbang info, the aH is back to the max level but the voltage is not as high as I think it should be.  Each cell is to be 2.21 at float per manufacturer but I've only been at 2.15.  I'll keep working at it.  My system is such that I can choose which circuits to power with solar.  I do not have a transfer switch because that is an all or none choice.  I wanted to be able to have both grid (when available) and solar at the same time.  I put in a separate electric panel and actually move the physical circuits to the new panel.  So far, works like a charm.  We have ice storms that knock the power out, sometimes for several days.  That was the initial motivation for a solar set up.  But, as others note, this is an addictive thing and I love it!  Now, if I only knew more....

    Thanks for the excellent info, Blackcherry.
    1st system:  24Vsystem with 8 X 300W panels, Midnite Solar combiner box, Midnite Solar mini-dc disconnect, Midnite Solar Classic 150, Outback VFX 3524 with mate, 2 X 12V  fforklift batteries in series 938 aH,  (Outback PSX transformer, Honda EU3000is...not currently hooked up but available if/when needed)

    2nd system:  24V system with 4 X 310W panels, Midnite Solar combiner box, Midnite Solar mini-dc disconnect, Midnite Solar Classic 200, Cotek 1500W pure sine inverter, Trojan 125 batteries (8 available but "currently" using 4)

  • Blackcherry04
    Blackcherry04 Solar Expert Posts: 2,490 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2015 #12
    Well, if you have a Grid connection available, that changes everything. Based on what you'v posted you are on the right track with the voltage and time increases. Traction batteries are slow to react to charging and it's hard to do any damage to them other than under charging them. Keep a eye on the water as they have a small reserve and will use a lot when gassing. I am sure you could over charge them, but it'd be darn hard to do. I also want to add that your battery is new, it will take some 50 to 100 cycles to get the plates formed, until the plates form the SG level and capacity will become stable.

    Enjoy