Completely want to live off battery power

SolarNoah
SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
Hello everyone!
I am fairly new to solar power.
I have 2 different systems that are small and simple. I ha e a camp RA4 solar revive folding solar charger which i use for my small batteries and charging my cell phone.
The other sytem I have consists of a enercell 12v 12ah sealed lead acid battery. Charged with a harbor freight 13 watt 12v breifcase charger. Using the charge controler from the Same company. Only charges at around 1amp. So from these I ha e learned a little aswell as fron what I have read.

Anyways, the reason for this post is. I am designing a cargo van conversion. Which will be used to travel accross country for a buddy and myself. So there are many questions that I ha e about power for the mini house on wheels.

Firat off I will tell you what I have in mind and what we want but not really need in this coversion.
I was thinking about a 200 watt solar panel set. 100 watts each to charge either a 200ah or 300 ah battery. Not sure on the battery yet as I have looked into many. And ofcouse need tofind the best deal as there is a budget involved.
Now what I was thinking was to be able to keep the batteries charged I wanted to use the solar panels and also the vehicles alternator while it is being driven to charge the batterie(s). Maybe not at the same time not sure if that can be done or not. But wanted to use a selector switch to switch from solar to alternator when needed. Or if i could use both at the same time and only use the selctor when i only want the solar to be used.
We do plan on having a fridge, tv, dvd player, charge station for laptops and cell phones and also our pocket cell charger batteries. Other appliances maybe a small water pump, micro microwave, and other useful kitchen items. Few lights for night time. Maybe even a small water heater. It is all going to depend on which can we purchase and the internal demensions of course as to what goes into this van conversion.

My questions are.
Is 200-300ah enough for what was mentioned?
Will 200watt solar panels be enough. With a 65-67ah charge per day.?
How can i use both the alternator and the solar to keep the batteries charged?
Would using a power inverter system be better then using full 12v female sockets? Or should i run 12 volt lighting and use an inverter for say the tv, frudge and stuff like that?

What would be my best options and what is everyones thoughts?

I Have done a load of reading on google and other forums. But still a little confused so I wanted to ask directly. I do get the jist of how all this works but am confused on what I should use and how I could keep these charged up without issue. As we are not going to be driving all the time and plan on staying in a few areas for a period of time.

What are everyones thoughts or ideas?

And want to apologize for any grammar or spelling errors. I have big fingers on a small phone keypad.

Comments

  • JoshK
    JoshK Solar Expert Posts: 232 ✭✭
    For on a vehicle, I would definitely go with engine power for charging. You can add an alternator for like $127 bucks right under the hood. That will give you 1650 watts of charging power 24 hours a day, driving or parked. With that much charging ability you might only need 2 batteries in the sleeping area. And no MPG loss from a panel on the roof. Gas consumption for the new alternator would not be noticeable. A 2000 watt power inverter seems about right for the project.
  • lkruper
    lkruper Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
    SolarNoah wrote: »
    Hello everyone!
    I am fairly new to solar power.
    I have 2 different systems that are small and simple. I ha e a camp RA4 solar revive folding solar charger which i use for my small batteries and charging my cell phone.
    The other sytem I have consists of a enercell 12v 12ah sealed lead acid battery. Charged with a harbor freight 13 watt 12v breifcase charger. Using the charge controler from the Same company. Only charges at around 1amp. So from these I ha e learned a little aswell as fron what I have read.

    Anyways, the reason for this post is. I am designing a cargo van conversion. Which will be used to travel accross country for a buddy and myself. So there are many questions that I ha e about power for the mini house on wheels.

    Firat off I will tell you what I have in mind and what we want but not really need in this coversion.
    I was thinking about a 200 watt solar panel set. 100 watts each to charge either a 200ah or 300 ah battery. Not sure on the battery yet as I have looked into many. And ofcouse need tofind the best deal as there is a budget involved.
    Now what I was thinking was to be able to keep the batteries charged I wanted to use the solar panels and also the vehicles alternator while it is being driven to charge the batterie(s). Maybe not at the same time not sure if that can be done or not. But wanted to use a selector switch to switch from solar to alternator when needed. Or if i could use both at the same time and only use the selctor when i only want the solar to be used.
    We do plan on having a fridge, tv, dvd player, charge station for laptops and cell phones and also our pocket cell charger batteries. Other appliances maybe a small water pump, micro microwave, and other useful kitchen items. Few lights for night time. Maybe even a small water heater. It is all going to depend on which can we purchase and the internal demensions of course as to what goes into this van conversion.

    My questions are.
    Is 200-300ah enough for what was mentioned?
    Will 200watt solar panels be enough. With a 65-67ah charge per day.?
    How can i use both the alternator and the solar to keep the batteries charged?
    Would using a power inverter system be better then using full 12v female sockets? Or should i run 12 volt lighting and use an inverter for say the tv, frudge and stuff like that?

    What would be my best options and what is everyones thoughts?

    I Have done a load of reading on google and other forums. But still a little confused so I wanted to ask directly. I do get the jist of how all this works but am confused on what I should use and how I could keep these charged up without issue. As we are not going to be driving all the time and plan on staying in a few areas for a period of time.

    What are everyones thoughts or ideas?

    And want to apologize for any grammar or spelling errors. I have big fingers on a small phone keypad.

    What van will you be converting? Also, you will need to plan your appliances much more thoroughly before you size your battery bank. Are you planning to use propane at all? If you do use propane for hot water or cooking then you can save on your battery bank. Things that use resistive heating like electric hot water heaters can take quite a bit of power. Are you planning for refrigeration?






  • SolarNoah
    SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
    Yes propane will be used for the stove and possibly the water heater.
    We do need a small refridgerator.

    The vans we have been looking at at the ecoline e250 e350 and the sprinter type of vans to convert. Something used of course. We are still shopping around as the prices vary big time in our area. Heating will also be propane if we need to heat that is.
  • SolarNoah
    SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
    Pretty much what we will have or want anyways is.
    TV, DVD Player, Refrigerator, small water pump, charging station for phones and laptops, 2-3 lights, and possi ly 2 fans for air movment.

    No AC unless we find it to be a needed thing later on. Which we can also just use the vans AC to cool if needed. But didnt plan on installing one.

    That I think is basically it.

    But would like to have atleat a 2 day battery back up for when its cloudy. But then again if needed we wanted to use the alternator aswell to help with the charging.
  • SolarNoah
    SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
    JoshK wrote: »
    For on a vehicle, I would definitely go with engine power for charging. You can add an [URL="http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-4516-high-output-chevy-3-wire-alternator-140-amp-65-85.aspx?CAWELAID=130000240000000453&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=130000240000081063&cadevice=c&gclid=CLb2iOKCpMYCFdcVgQod6PsB8Q"]alternator for like $127 bucks[/URL] right under the hood. That will give you 1650 watts of charging power 24 hours a day, driving or parked. With that much charging ability you might only need 2 batteries in the sleeping area. And no MPG loss from a panel on the roof. Gas consumption for the new alternator would not be noticeable. A 2000 watt power inverter seems about right for the project.

    Just went back threw the posts and for some reason over looked your post. Quoted above.
    The idea o the alternator. I do like. That is for sure. However I do still want a solar back incase of engine trouble.
  • Johann
    Johann Solar Expert Posts: 245 ✭✭✭
    Can you give us solid numbers for each electrical item, like watts, volts and amps or how much power each item will use and how many hours per day you will use it.
    The battery size depends how many watts all those items use that are hooked up to it. Charging batteries with your alternator is ok while driving, but you do not want to idle your van in a parking lot for hours just to charge batteries.
    What kind of batteries did you think about using?

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Actually, I would suggest that you skip solar and maybe use a small inverter style suitcase generator. Why ?
    1) Because, you are seldom (unless you are camping in the desert) parked in enough sun to effectively charge the batteries.
    2) small genset and battery charger cost less than solar and all the goodies.
    3) Running the engine & alternator will charge more in 10 minutes than all day with solar.
    4) uses gasoline like the van
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    If you want "silent running" capability for any reason, keep the separate PV charger for cell phone, etc. while relying on generator and/or engine alternator for the rest. As long as you are sticking to 12V for your battery system, you do not even need to add another alternator. The built in one should be OK to charge the batteries as long as you are not running headlights and accessories at the same time. You might want to change the pulley ratio to get more power at idle, and you need a battery isolator to keep from discharging the starting battery when the engine is not running.
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • SolarNoah
    SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
    I am not sure on just how much power we will be using. As we do not have any appliances yet. Still shopping for certain things.

    I do like the idea of the alternator now rhat I think about it. And it would be much cheaper I would think then just buying all the solar supplies. Thanks for the idea.
    Maybe a small gen would work in cases when it wAs needed.

    I want to thank you guys for the ideas. I will look around and see what I cn come up with. So i know how much power i will need.

    Also the batteries I wanted were lithium ion but the prices were way to high.

    So was just looking at the deep cycle lead acid batteries.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    If you haven't done so yet there is some good reading on power use in the RV section http://forum.solar-electric.com/forum/solar-electric-power-wind-power-balance-of-system/caravan-recreational-vehicle-and-marine-power-systems

    happy reading
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • buenijo
    buenijo Registered Users Posts: 1
    I recommend forums where those participating have direct experience. See cheaprvliving.com and tnttt.com.

    In my opinion, a solar system will pay for itself many times over in that setting. You can't have too much solar. The limit will be the size of the van and how many you can reasonably mount. 200 watts is probably a limit. However, specifics cannot be offered without more information. FYI, if you have not yet considered it, then look into converting cargo trailers. See the forum dedicated to this alternative in the tnttt.com site. In my opinion, converting a cargo trailer into a living space is a brilliant idea if done properly - and especially for accommodating two people.
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    SolarNoah, I can't resist asking: Are you designing for 40 day and 40 night autonomy?
    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • SolarNoah
    SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
    Westbranch, thank you for the link. Will take a good look threw this section.

    Buenijo, i did think about travel trailers and such. But decided we want an all in one. Plus this raises the cost. As we have nothing to tow the trailer with. This is why we want just the van instead of a trailer. Which would be idea really but money doesnt allow it. Would be better for seperate beds though and give more room for sure. Currently we are thinking about bunk beds. I dont really wanna sleep in the same bed with nother guy. Im not homophobic just would like my own bed,

    Inetdog, yes I did plan on sticking to a 12volt system. Unless there are huge pros to say going 24 or 48 volt. But from what I have read I dont think going above 12 will be needed.
    I think what I will do if not running solar besides maybe what I already have I would upgrade the alternator. From stock to high output. And then keep the stock for a spare. Doing this I think would be much cheaper then a solar setup. Then i wouldn't also have to worry about power loss with accessories running and such.

    LOL. No 40 day and 40 nights. LOL. Never know what ill find on the way accross country.

    You were refering to the movie right?
  • JoshK
    JoshK Solar Expert Posts: 232 ✭✭
    SolarNoah wrote: »
    think what I will do if not running solar besides maybe what I already have I would upgrade the alternator. From stock to high output. And then keep the stock for a spare.

    That will work, but I would recommend adding the new one, instead of replacing the old one. One reason would be so you don't need to travel with an arsenal of tools to do the work on the side of the road if one goes out. The other reason would be longevity. I think separate systems will be a healthier install overall, for the sake of the alternators and the batteries.
  • SolarNoah
    SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
    JoshK wrote: »

    That will work, but I would recommend adding the new one, instead of replacing the old one. One reason would be so you don't need to travel with an arsenal of tools to do the work on the side of the road if one goes out. The other reason would be longevity. I think separate systems will be a healthier install overall, for the sake of the alternators and the batteries.

    Yes I agree with this. One dedicated to the vehicle itself and the other dedicated for the batteries in the living space.

    Good idea.

    Heading to look at a few cargo vans this comming weekend. Ill know more of what i jave to work with then.
  • lkruper
    lkruper Solar Expert Posts: 115 ✭✭
    SolarNoah wrote: »
    Westbranch, thank you for the link. Will take a good look threw this section.

    Buenijo, i did think about travel trailers and such. But decided we want an all in one. Plus this raises the cost. As we have nothing to tow the trailer with. This is why we want just the van instead of a trailer. Which would be idea really but money doesnt allow it. Would be better for seperate beds though and give more room for sure. Currently we are thinking about bunk beds. I dont really wanna sleep in the same bed with nother guy. Im not homophobic just would like my own bed,

    Inetdog, yes I did plan on sticking to a 12volt system. Unless there are huge pros to say going 24 or 48 volt. But from what I have read I dont think going above 12 will be needed.
    I think what I will do if not running solar besides maybe what I already have I would upgrade the alternator. From stock to high output. And then keep the stock for a spare. Doing this I think would be much cheaper then a solar setup. Then i wouldn't also have to worry about power loss with accessories running and such.

    LOL. No 40 day and 40 nights. LOL. Never know what ill find on the way accross country.

    You were refering to the movie right?

    There was a movie?
  • SolarNoah
    SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
    Lol yes. Released in 2002. Forget who is even in it and I dont think iv seen it either.
  • inetdog
    inetdog Solar Expert Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭✭
    SolarNoah wrote: »
    You were refering to the movie right?
    I did not see the movie, but I read The Book.

    SMA SB 3000, old BP panels.
  • SolarNoah
    SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
    I havnt done either but. I know they excist. Lol
  • SolarNoah
    SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
    Well we have decided to go with a box truck instead of a van. So this gives us more room and most of the box trucks we found were diesel. So the extra alternator, what solar we already have, and a genset I think is going to be our chargers.

    We are going shopping this weekend for gadgets so we can get an idea of what power we will need. Fridge, tv, dvd, and such.

    Then i may be able to figure out what size battery bank I will need.

    Thank for the help guys ill be back with total watts and such as soon as I know,
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    My estimating tool was a spreadsheet for all 24 hrs of the day... once I knew the watts I estimated the hrs of the day the itme would be usses and broke that down into 15 minute parcels per hr... you may be surprised...
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • SolarNoah
    SolarNoah Registered Users Posts: 11
    That sounds interesting. Would u are a copy of it.
  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    sorry cant figure out how to attach/ upload file, refuses to accept??? just use Xcel and start at 7 AM to 11 PM normal up hours and list night use also if needed
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
  • JoshK
    JoshK Solar Expert Posts: 232 ✭✭
    You can answer your power needs question exactly without estimation. And solve unknown issues while doing it.... First put the stuff you want in the box truck. Then park it in your driveway and plug it into your house using a single extension cord. Connect a Kill-A-Watt device to that extension cord. Then live in it for 24 hours. :) Not only will you discover EXACTLY how much power you need, but you will discover what you forgot to pack. Did you forget a spoon? Run back in the house and grab it. Do your nails need trimming? Run back in the house and get a finger-nail trimmer. You get the idea.

    Then with the usage info from your Kill-A-Watt you can size your system.