Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

I have the MPPT-600-80 and will be adding an inverter soon. I was thinking of going with a magnum 4024PAE mainly because I get extremely good pricing on these through one of my suppliers. Another thread I was reading touched on that the Scneider CC and inverter work nicely together and the pair has some nice features. Can someone explain what the advantages would be in having the Scneider CC paired with a Schneider inverter and disadvantages of NOT pairing like brands?

Thanks!

Comments

  • Ethan Brush
    Ethan Brush Solar Expert Posts: 235 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    ...and one more question. Does the XW4024 feature split phase 120/240 output? The datasheet IMO is a bit ambiguous on this....
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    When using components from a single manufacturer, there is the/some promise of possibly having a well integrated system.

    We cannot know, at this point, the nature of the system that you are considering -- off-grid, Grid Interactive, etc.

    Schneider has worked tirelessly to avoid correcting significant bugs in the XW Inverter line when they are connected to the grid. Am not certain that the XW+ Inverters have any of these maddening bugs fixed. Someone, elsewhere, noted that Plusing the XW inverters was a paint color change (only). I do not know ...

    If your application is pure off-grid, the XW might be an OK inverter -- fewer bugs.

    The XWs are native Split Phase, possibly with some provision to do 120 VAC only in the USA.

    Schneider has relatively inconsistent Customer "Support" -- horrible, in my experience. I will try to avoid any Schneider Electronic products, at all cost, forever - unless forced to do otherwise.

    The Magnum inverters have been noted as having relatively poor/slow AC voltage regulation. I have no personal experience with them however.

    All FWIW. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    I believe that all the XW line does have split phase 240VAC output, just like USA household power. I'm off grid, and can't speak to the grid interactive issues.
    Attached is a screen shot from the ComBox that I monitor my generator run time, and battery voltage levels. I have different brand charge controllers, but am sure the use of the XW controller will fit right into the preset graphics. The remote web interface is fair enough, and the logging features of the combox are good too. It will allow you to do firmware upgrades to the XW gear if you need to. Web browser interface & android app.
    Attachment not found.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Ethan Brush
    Ethan Brush Solar Expert Posts: 235 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    I appreciate the responses. A few points/clarifications: this is an off grid system. I am not set on any particular inverter yet, but the CC is a definite as it is the only one up to the task.
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter
    I appreciate the responses. A few points/clarifications: this is an off grid system. I am not set on any particular inverter yet, but the CC is a definite as it is the only one up to the task.

    In Mikes screen shot you would be missing alot if you used another brand inverter with the XW-80-600V. The XW 4024 or even if you were low on cash the SW 4024 would make the system very easy to use and read. Not just for you, but possibly others in your house. Unless you have alot of background in RE or electronics, you should stay with the same brand. I very rarely use Outback because the XW-80-600V has made it so easy doing an array.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    The XW 80-600 costs a fortune. Unless you have specific need for a very high Voltage array, avoid it.

    Outback and MidNite equipment is superior to Xantrex/Schneider/Conext stuff in every way. Honestly their products have caused more headaches than you can imagine. One only has to read this forum to be well warned away from that company.

    The majority of off-grid systems work without any integration between controller and inverter. it is not truly necessary; merely a luxury or over-rated glitz. Do not listen to people who sell and install this stuff as they have an agenda of proving their POV correct no matter what the cost to you.

    I don't sell any brand, I just correct mistakes made by other people. I'm sick of having to try and straighten out the disgusting messed up systems centered on the X/S/C equipment. Vic's comments about the quality of the product and service are spot-on. If at all possible, avoid it.
  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    Dave a

    Off topic, does shade affect the whole aray output compared to how it would with smaller series paralel conneted arays?
    Gww
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter
    gww1 wrote: »
    Dave a

    Off topic, does shade affect the whole aray output compared to how it would with smaller series paralel conneted arays?
    Gww

    The same issues with shade apply but on a larger scale. There is an algorithm in the -80 to minimize its effect but shade is never good. You can series parallel the HV strings but at some point it would be better to just use a 150V controller. They both work really well together. I am up to 78 offgrid homes and the only problems I have are batteries and the people who use them. I am really grateful for that.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    Dave

    Thanks
    gww
  • SkiDoo55
    SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    Based on my experiece only and I have read of all of the problems with Zantrex/Schneider equipment and with only problem with out of the box correct and properly sized wiring I have had with my system is just reporting issue in the ComBox. Have 2 grid 3800W inverters. XW MPPT 60-150 charge controller, XW 4024 inverter which is supplying load to a sub panel and back feeding any surplus to grid. With it all talking over ZanBus the inverter follows the charge controller allowing full cycle 3 stage battery charge, battery has priority from controller loads secondary and sell to grid third. If I was to need to put in another system hybrid type I would use same equipment. Like features, ease of install, and so far not a single glitch in operation. System will AC couple from grid inverters, haven't had to try that yet.
    only thing currently I am upset with Schneider with is the "Discontinuation" of the NA grid tie inverter line witch per tech support have not heard of a replacement in the NA market. Was told that there would be product support for future replacement or repair. Hopefully that will be a long time down the road. Oldest GT is 5 yr with flawless operation. It has converterd @ 30 MWh todate.

    All equipment in this nature has issues, nature of electronics. I would also, after reading and seeing photo's of some installs wonder how they worked at all or didn't go up in a small mushroom smoke clouds upon first power application, with no fault of the equipment.

    just my two cents, not connected with anyone, I don't sell anything.
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
  • Ethan Brush
    Ethan Brush Solar Expert Posts: 235 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    I appreciate the warnings against Schneider stuff and will take that into consideration, I dont doubt that there is validity to these concerns. I do however think every brand has its issues and there are always haters. On the other side, I have heard experienced offgriders say you just cant kill an XW. From my personal experience I found this to be true of the C series controllers. I was using them for diversion with some home made diversion elements and then I switched to morningstar TS's because they react quicker. I killed three of the tristars, before realizing that it was some back EMF issues with my home made diversion elements. Put the C's back in there and they would run it all day without a hitch......anyway.....

    Yes the MPPT-600 is "pricey", but in my case it will save me thousands. It definitely has its place and can be invaluable - I dont think people are buying these just so they can brag about their high string voltages ;)

    But back to the XW (anyone who knows is welcome to comment), I am a little unclear about the display: does it have one or is that an additional item?

    Again, thanks everyone for sharing your experiences.
  • 90cummins
    90cummins Solar Expert Posts: 57 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    I have an XW4024 and yes it has 120/240 split phase output.
    The best reason for using a Xantrex inverter would be the ability to use the remote Xantrex SCP control panel to monitor, and change parameters on both the inverter and charge controller.
    90cummins
  • Dave Angelini
    Dave Angelini Solar Expert Posts: 6,728 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    It needs an SCP display or the COMBOX to make changes. The display on the inv/chg is for default values only and just about useless. I have one down in Tucson that has been in a shed in the Desert since 2007 powering an offgrid home with the same firmware that the factory used.
    I appreciate the warnings against Schneider stuff and will take that into consideration, I dont doubt that there is validity to these concerns. I do however think every brand has its issues and there are always haters. On the other side, I have heard experienced offgriders say you just cant kill an XW. From my personal experience I found this to be true of the C series controllers. I was using them for diversion with some home made diversion elements and then I switched to morningstar TS's because they react quicker. I killed three of the tristars, before realizing that it was some back EMF issues with my home made diversion elements. Put the C's back in there and they would run it all day without a hitch......anyway.....

    Yes the MPPT-600 is "pricey", but in my case it will save me thousands. It definitely has its place and can be invaluable - I dont think people are buying these just so they can brag about their high string voltages ;)

    But back to the XW (anyone who knows is welcome to comment), I am a little unclear about the display: does it have one or is that an additional item?

    Again, thanks everyone for sharing your experiences.
    "we go where power lines don't" Sierra Nevada mountain area
       htps://offgridsolar1.com/
    E-mail offgridsolar@sti.net

  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    The XW/Schneider gear, is like the Outback stuff, you still need a "smart box" to program the system to your needs. With Schneider you have a choice of the dumb SCP or the very smart COMBOX. I have both (and the ancient Gateway) and greatly prefer the COMBOX which connects to a computer and does all sorts of tricks.

    The XW gear for off-grid is outstanding, the grid-tie aspects, I hear require a Full moon (also heard Dark moon) a sharp knife and the neighbors goat.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Ethan Brush
    Ethan Brush Solar Expert Posts: 235 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter
    mike95490 wrote: »
    The XW gear for off-grid is outstanding, the grid-tie aspects, I hear require a Full moon (also heard Dark moon) a sharp knife and the neighbors goat.

    That is what Many folks seem to say. Contrary to the direction this thread has gone, I am actually not leaning toward the XW. Its quite pricey. I can get a magnum 4024PAE for $1475 so that is the direction I am leaning. I have heard of the poor voltage regulation under high loading complaints as mentioned by a poster in this thread, but not too concerned about that - it will be lightly loaded 99% if the time. Outbacks seem real nice, but they are bit behind the times not offering spit phase output (I know they offer that autotransformer but its another thing to buy with another set of losses...). Waiting for midnite's inverter line!
  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    Ethan
    I love the dual inverter outback system with the outback mounting and ac/dc breaker boxes. You get good split phase with two inverters. I bought my setup used for $1500 including the mate hub and an mx60 cc. I was always told that you don't want to buy electrical stuff used. If I needed a system to day knowing what I know today, I would look for a used outback before I pulled the trigger on something else new. One of the reasons I say this is because if you bought one and had to replace the boards to make it good it is $500. I would just try to get it cheep enough that if it was bad that $500 more into it would still be a good deal. I would negotiate or not buy it. You can only buy what is for sell but maby this would be something to consider.
    gww
  • SkiDoo55
    SkiDoo55 Solar Expert Posts: 414 ✭✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter
    mike95490 wrote: »
    The XW/Schneider gear, is like the Outback stuff, you still need a "smart box" to program the system to your needs. With Schneider you have a choice of the dumb SCP or the very smart COMBOX. I have both (and the ancient Gateway) and greatly prefer the COMBOX which connects to a computer and does all sorts of tricks.

    The XW gear for off-grid is outstanding, the grid-tie aspects, I hear require a Full moon (also heard Dark moon) a sharp knife and the neighbors goat.

    I didn't really think tha hooking up AC1 (L1, L2, N, Gnd) from house grid panel thru breaker was really that difficult. Making a few settings changes thru the ComBox (Recommended over the SCP). Need to have agreement with utility for sell. And it works perfect. If grid goes down have automatic transfer to inverter without dropping a single clock TV etc. Will come back when grid returns, same when on gererator support.

    Haven't really seen full 240 split phase installs of other mfg products so I will not comment on them. XW system Was just the easiest and cleanest looking for me. I did use the Midnight E-panel as it was a better more complete product, less additional parts to purchase and install.

    Combox is the best option for XW equipment. If you have Internet access you can log in and see what is happening and even make setting changes if required.
    GT3.8 w/4600W Trina 230W, TX5000 w/5000W ET-250W, XW4024 w/1500W ET-250W, 4 L16, 5500W Gen. (never had to use) Yet!!
  • Ethan Brush
    Ethan Brush Solar Expert Posts: 235 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter
    gww1 wrote: »
    Ethan
    I love the dual inverter outback system with the outback mounting and ac/dc breaker boxes. You get good split phase with two inverters. I bought my setup used for $1500 including the mate hub and an mx60 cc. I was always told that you don't want to buy electrical stuff used. If I needed a system to day knowing what I know today, I would look for a used outback before I pulled the trigger on something else new. One of the reasons I say this is because if you bought one and had to replace the boards to make it good it is $500. I would just try to get it cheep enough that if it was bad that $500 more into it would still be a good deal. I would negotiate or not buy it. You can only buy what is for sell but maby this would be something to consider. gww

    gww,
    I agree the outback system is nice in that you can stack multiple inverters. Not thrilled about having twice the losses though. As it is, the losses in one inverter make me shutter. I tell myself all the time to just let it go! Used is certainly an option too, Im not opposed to it. Just have to find that person making the jump to 48V and getting rid of the 24, someone going to the grid dark side, etc......
  • gww1
    gww1 Solar Expert Posts: 963 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter

    Ethan
    Yea, all this equipment eats alot. Thats why every time I get excited cause I made 30000 watts bill reminds me that I only get to count 50% of it.
    Cheers

    Ps Thanks for the help on my generator grounding.
  • Ethan Brush
    Ethan Brush Solar Expert Posts: 235 ✭✭
    Re: Schneider MPPT-600-80 with non Schneider inverter
    gww1 wrote: »
    Ps Thanks for the help on my generator grounding.

    No Problem, hope it all made sense. Its been generator week: installed one yesterday and looked at two with problems today. Just boring grid backup stuff though ;)