just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

Shawn-H
Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
ok some one stole everything before we got the place. (the reason we got it for a steal) now I live here and will have 300 every two weeks (600 a month) starting in september to put into solar. I will be buying an Outback Vfx3524 Inv 3.5Kw 24V in the end of Aug. I have a 8kw gen, one 240w panel, a morningstar ts-60, a modified sine wave (harbor freight 2000w special) and 2 Centennial GC2200 6V 220Ah GC2 Deep Cycle Batteries. (I believe the bats to be badly damaged spent 45 days at 12.0 -12.3 on a 45w harbor freight solar battery tender and have only seen full once in their 3 month life) I live just outside of snowflake Arizona.

All my power needs are now :
2 x laptop (70w each) 140w 24*hour (but will increase to 11,520W /hours per day in 8 months.)

I plan on having 16 x 240w panels, 16 Centennial GC2200 6V 220Ah GC2 Deep Cycle Batteries, Outback Vfx3524 Inv 3.5Kw 24V, 2 morningstar ts-60. 8kw gen

Any ideas on the order to buy it? or better components?
100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
Vag woodstove for heat.
Follow our journey at
https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
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Comments

  • AuricTech
    AuricTech Solar Expert Posts: 140 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    The first thing that comes to mind is that it would be helpful for you to figure out a way significantly to reduce your daily load from your anticipated 11.52KWh. As far as your battery bank goes, if it truly needs to be that size (see my first thought), I'd look into buying fewer batteries, each with about double the capacity. An example would be the [url="http://www.solar-electric.com/batteries-meters-accessories/batteries/crdecyinba1/stdecyba/batteries-crown-cr-430.html]Crown 430 AH[/url] 6V flooded lead-acid battery. That would require only two parallel strings in a 24V system (your planned bank calls for four parallel strings), or only one series string for a 48V system.

    Also, why a 24V system?
  • Shawn-H
    Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    cost is the reason for the 24v not 48v.
    here is my thoughts on need. I have 3 kids and a wife and for dogs and 65 chickens and 12 goats and...... you get the point. they will want to be cool in the summer and warm in the winter. it gets from -5F to 103f I plan on this being my needs but it is just a guess. I am on propane for heat (soon will be wood) hot water, cooking and my refrigerator this can stay the case though i do not wish it to.

    2 x laptop 140w 24/hour = 3360w/hours per day.
    t.v. 190w 18/hour = 3420w/hours per day.
    xbox 140w 8/hours = 1120w/hours per day.
    surround receiver 240w 8/hours = 1920w/hours per day.
    subwoofer 50w 4/hour = 200w/hours per day.
    A/C 1150w 3/hours = 3450w/hours per day.
    fridge 800w x 2/hours 1600w/hours per day.
    chest freezer 35w x 24/hours 840w/hours per day.
    heater 690w x 3/hours 2060w/hours per day

    daily need 18,010w/hours.

    any ideas?
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    If your realistic and expect a 10+Kwh daily load, skip ahead to 48v. Look into a fork lift battery or large 2 volt cells, minimum of L16 size batteries.

    A 4 Kw array and a 440Ah 48v battery bank(440Ah x 48v= 21Kwh/2 = 10.5 Kwh usable), might be enough in sunny Arizona, if your willing to run your genny if you have more than one cloudy day.

    In planning and budgeting, save your money and buy all at once, I'd shoot for adding a inverter/charger and battery bank first, then solar panels.

    8 months at $600 is around $5000, your going to be short, you might get a battery bank and inverter charger for that.

    My 4Kw array/system ran close to $8000 and that is still very, very cheap! (a couple used inverters or we'd be looking at $10K) If I was building from scratch I'd have gone 48v, but I already had the battery...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • mike95490
    mike95490 Solar Expert Posts: 9,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    insulated thermal mass house. Being off grid means no air conditioning. You have to solve the heat problem a different way. Generator power to run the air conditioner, or use a small "Mini-split" AC just while the sun is shining. But you can't afford batteries to run air conditoning all night.

    If you have a family, and think you can't afford 48V system, wait till you find out what the copper wire for 24V cost. 48V is CHEAPER overall. Half the charge controller need, smaller battery interconnects......

    Same size battery bank, 20KWh but just arranged differently.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister ,

  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    Wow your up to 18Kwh and your just getting going...

    48v instead of 24v if you want to keep costs down!

    At 18Kwh a day, your looking more like double the system I described, a 7 Kw array maybe, (on 24 volt your looking at 3 charge controllers, 48v - 2 with room to grow)

    A 700Ah 48v battery bank (700 x 48 = 33.6Kwh x .5 = 15.8Ah usable storage)

    Your numbers look like everyone's not on board for this change in life style, Not sure I'd even consider it if that is the case, surround receiver 240w 8/hours = 1920w/hours per day. Sounds like a complete man over board, or at least not on the boat...

    Not sure what 3 hrs of AC is going to do for you, or what your heating for 3 hours a day...

    I also forgot to add in that the inverter is only going to be 90%(at best) efficient, so add 11% to your figures, now it's up to 20kwhs...
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Shawn-H
    Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    thank you guys so much. if I go 48v can you give me a list of good components please i will get the OutBack VFX3648 > 3600 Watt 48 Volt Vented Off-Grid Inverter and i have a morningstar ts-60 and an 8kw gen.
    I will run the gen if I have more than one cloudy day i knew that going in. I would like any ideas you have about cutting my use without pissing the fam off to bad, and also forklift bats are the way im going once i can afford them i need bats i can buy and run on in for the next year. i need to be able to support the fam in 8 months on what I got. thank you again for the help.
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • Shawn-H
    Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    Can some one help the idiot plz. how could i cut my needs without harshly affecting my family? and what are the best bang for my buck 48v components? i'm a pore man trying to start an off grid homestead with a teachers income on just 40 acres in Az.......... this has to be possible right? to do it on the cheap because the rich can pay the bills? or is alt power just for the rich? is alt power bull sh%t? really thought this possible........ Is it not?
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • verdigo
    verdigo Solar Expert Posts: 428 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    Your best bang for your buck is to buy a Kill a Watt, and determine what your loads really require. Get the wood heat up and going. Forget electric heat. If the kids are chopping wood the x-box can be turned off. A lot of stuff can be turned off.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    If I had to, try to supply even the original 11Kwh, I would not do solar in the 8 month period.

    I would expect to run the genny a lot, buy a good sized battery bank perhaps 2 strings of Sams Club or Costco Golf cart batteries, about $80 each + $15 core, @$1600, Your VFX3648(you don't need 240v for your well pump?) $1700, you will still need $300 in wiring, $5-600 for a Epanel (a DC breaker box). Then start saving for a pallet of panels.

    I was just quoted $3725 for 5700watts of UL panels delivered to Missouri, so deals are out there, Not sure where prices are heading, between the cell price increase and the WTO challenge to our tarrifs on China panels... You will NOT find cheap prices on panels trying to buy them one at a time! Even living close to Arizona Wind and Sun you shouldn't try to buy a couple at a time, they may run out and then you could be one of the numerous people asking about miss matched panels.

    Remember you can get a 30% tax credit off your tax liability(off what you pay in) the year you are using the solar system... until 2016
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    You have $600 a month to spend on solar? Start saving it up.
    For one thing you don't want to try and buy things piecemeal, nor jump on 'bargains' only to find out they don't fit your power needs.
    For another, in about a year you should have enough to build a system capable of supplying about 1/6 of that 18 kW hours per day power need. And that is why everyone is talking about conservation first.

    If solar power for the rich? Yes, frankly. You are talking off-grid power which comes at a substantial premium. Where there is grid it makes no sense. Utility power for pennies per kW hour or solar for dollars per. There's the ugly fact. As cheap as panels have become, it's all still very expensive.

    It becomes much cheaper if there is no grid because the alternative then for electric power is generator and fuel isn't cheap (even if you don't pay $6 a gallon like we do here).

    People will tell you about their payback time with a solar power system. This is usually based on a grid-tie system selling whatever surplus it produces back to the utility; less capital cost to begin with and better efficiency by almost double. Nearly always there will be a tax credit involved which further mitigates the capital costs. If you don't have all that going for you it will be expensive.

    We constantly see promotions about solar being "free" power and outrageous claims of saving money. 99% of that is just plain not true. And I'll bet you probably didn't expect to read that on a solar forum. They're nearly always gung-ho "everyone should put in solar and save the world" dreamers. Around here we're hard-nosed pragmatists.

    So for the main question: got grid?
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    Can some one help the idiot plz. how could i cut my needs without harshly affecting my family? and what are the best bang for my buck 48v components? i'm a pore man trying to start an off grid homestead with a teachers income on just 40 acres in Az.......... this has to be possible right? to do it on the cheap because the rich can pay the bills? or is alt power just for the rich? is alt power bull sh%t? really thought this possible........ Is it not?

    FWIW - you likely make a good bit more than I, I had help purchasing my first system, my dad passed away and I used a modest inheritance to buy a 920 watt array and a power center, $3600 back then if I recall correctly. I live on my own and having no bills at that point was able to save to purchase my future equipment. If you own the land outright, and you can get the wife and kids onboard(big if) I suspect things may be easier. It's not easy road if you, and everyone wants to live like you can just flip a switch and the electric will be there. It will be something of a life style change. I take it there is a house on the property? can you cool it with 3hrs of A/C and make everyone happy?

    I say if you want to, or rather if everyone wants to, it's possible.

    Some of the things I gave up, dryer, every thing hangs to dry, I don't use a full size oven, I use a toaster oven and pretty much have to shut down the house to do it. I have changed my hot water heater over to 120v and it works okay when I'm here to monitor it, but can't really run it on the waste not feature of my charge controller, since it's 900watts and a small additional load and the fridge kicking on will shut down the inverter.

    I will pick up a gas grill at some point, cook mostly on a Forman grill, or single induction cook top and a microwave. I had plans on a larger inverter, but found my self laid off last year, now again this year... just as I was making plans. I can divide my system and run 2 inverters, and do for yard work, but it really isn't the best arrangement.

    In the balance, I don't currently have a job and my bills represent about $1400 a year, Water (<$20-M), WiFi from the neighbor($20-M), Phone ($10-M), and supplemented Health Care ($45-M if things don't change!) car insurance ($300yr) And of course daily life things food, gas, clothes, So I don't have a huge pressure to find a job right away. I'm actually saving about 50% of my modest unemployment check.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • ZoNiE
    ZoNiE Solar Expert Posts: 100 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Photowhit wrote: »

    Your numbers look like everyone's not on board for this change in life style, Not sure I'd even consider it if that is the case, surround receiver 240w 8/hours = 1920w/hours per day. Sounds like a complete man over board, or at least not on the boat...

    2X

    Attachment not found.

    You're in a tough spot. The kids are going to have their expectations realigned. Teachers pay sucks. Even more so in rural Arizona. They have to understand that. If there is no way you can be connected to the grid, you will really need to manage the family's expectations.

    The comment made about chopping wood is more than jest, I'm sure. It will suck, but at the end of the day, the kids will learn real life lessons that will benefit them in adulthood. They have to make the sacrifices WITH you. Most kids today will grow up and be lost in a world full of people just like them with all of us older folks gone. Use this to give them an advantage over the rest to be self sufficient.

    If that is not an option, then it is time to think outside the box here. Can the kids play a day or two at the library on their computers? Is there a rec center? You are a teacher, perhaps "volunteer" to run an after school program for local kids 2-3 days a week at the school so they (and others) can play games and you can help parents who might need the extra couple of hours once and a while. Maybe some will donate a few bucks when they can to help you out. Most will not. Good time to sit and grade papers...

    I'd also opt for 48V for all the same reasons stated previously.
  • Shawn-H
    Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    THERE IS NO POWER FOR 3/4 OF A MILE WILL COST 23,000 PLUS A MONTHLY POWER BILL.
    wow ok THANK YOU!!! i was about to say mean things, lol.
    I have been coming here for info for 2 years and never signed up. you guys give some of the best tech advice on the net. you can be mean to new ppl and idiots like me.
    But, now with that said ill be honest to. This is what I'm getting (I have some of it now) and i am saving for all of it. I really like this form and hope you will all help the idiots like me strive for independence even on a budget.
    The only thing you all didn't cover was how to live here with no power for 16 months.
    I'm going to get 16 x 240w panels, 1600 Watt 5 Blade Missouri Rebel Freedom Wind Turbine 16 Centennial GC2200 6V 220Ah GC2 Deep Cycle Batteries, 4 OutBack Power GFX1548, 3 morningstar ts-60. and an 8 kw generator.

    my true needs are:
    2 x laptop 140w 10/hour = 1400w/hours per day.
    t.v. 190w 8/hour = 1520w/hours per day.
    xbox 140w 4/hours = 560w/hours per day.
    surround receiver 240w 2/hours = 480w/hours per day.
    subwoofer 50w 2/hour = 100w/hours per day.
    swamp cooler 690w x 6/hours 4140w/hours per day
    chest freezer 35w x 24/hours 840w/hours per day.
    2 x laptop 140w 10/hour = 1400w/hours per day.
    t.v. 190w 8/hour = 1520w/hours per day.
    xbox 140w 4/hours = 560w/hours per day.
    surround receiver 240w 2/hours = 480w/hours per day.
    subwoofer 50w 2/hour = 100w/hours per day.
    swamp cooler 690w x 6/hours 4140w/hours per day
    chest freezer 35w x 24/hours 840w/hours per day.

    daily need 8240w/hours. this is a worst case list the real # is 3220w/hours.
    I am on propane for heat (soon will be wood) hot water, cooking and my refrigerator. hi monthly costs $34. The well runs on its own 1200w solar.
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    daily need 8240w/hours. this is a worst case list the real # is 3220w/hours.
    I am on propane for heat (soon will be wood) hot water, cooking and my refrigerator. hi monthly costs $34.

    3 kW hours per day is much, much easier to supply than 18.
    We use about that much here: two people, with a fraction of the items on your list. Basically the electric is for the refrigerator, laptops & Sat connection, water pump, septic pump, and lights (which we tend not to use much). No TV, the stereo is a cheap 'boom box' which is hardly ever used. Very minimal, but not nearly as much so as when we started and had no electricity: propane everything, water hauled in buckets. That was a lot of no fun.

    We still have and need a generator. You will too. In fact it can be a key 'bridge' in your system-building as it can take 'larger' loads as needed and also supply the battery charging until you can get a good size array & controller. Expect to wear out a cheap gen doing this for 16 months; they aren't designed to stand up to such daily use (prime power).

    So for future expansion purposes pick the 48 Volt inverter now. Need 240 Volt? Probably not, as about the only non-heating item that runs on 240 is a well pump (sometimes). That means you could use the VFX3648. Keep in mind that 3600 Watts is about "two outlets worth" meaning you will not be able to turn everything on at once (a tally of the maximum total Watt needs is a good idea too).

    We do a lot of load management around here to squeak the maximum efficiency from our system. This includes large pressure tank to fill during daylight so the pump doesn't draw from batteries at night. That sort of planning is a big help.

    To get 3kW hours from 48 Volts you need about 250 Amp hours (at 25% DOD). It could probably be done on a single set of eight GC2's (6 Volt 220 Amp hours all wired in series) to begin with. If you can get the 'warehouse' ones they will be cheapest and best value for the money.

    That will get you going. $2,000 inverter (don't forget the MATE), $1,000 batteries, $500 generator, $500 in wire and misc. No solar in that and it still isn't cheap.
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    Okay, I think 'Coot knows I'll be truthful, I think in AZ you can likely get the cost down to 30-40 cents a Kwh. Grid still looks very, very good!

    Todays prices,

    5700 Kwh of panels...$3725
    VFX3648..................$1800
    Epanel.......................$430
    Breakers......................$40
    Combiner Box(2@$95).$190
    Breakers......................$85
    Charge controllers
    use what you have
    panels have VMP of 35v.$00
    800Ahr 48v battery...$4700
    Wiring....?..................$500 maybe low
    Racking....................$1000+I think you have strong winds at times and little obstructions, likely a low ground mount or a roof mount if you have southern exposure.
    Labor.........................Lots!
    about...$12470..........$1300 add a bit misc.


    in AZ this should give you a pretty good size system likely to provide around 15Kwh on a daily basis, you would have about 19Kwh of storage down to 50% discharge, this is minimal, but I don't think you have long periods of cloudy days. This means you MUST be willing to run your generator, not included in this pricing.
    Roughly this should work for about 25 years, expecting to replace the inverter 2x and the charge controllers 2x (switching to Midnite classics or other MPPT type when you need to) and the battery 1x about $9000 added over 25 years. So about $23000 over 25 years 15x360x25=135000............23000/135000=$.17 a kwh

    This is simplistic, and you would want to insure your system against the environment, also note that this does not include care and maintenance of your generator or the cost of money(you putting it all up front now. the panels will give a little less each year, but the MPPT charge controllers will add a good bit.

    Also realize this doesn't include the 30% tax credit, we are on the WWW not everyone ('Coot) gets this credit.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Shawn-H
    Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    So for future expansion purposes pick the 48 Volt inverter now. Need 240 Volt? Probably not, as about the only non-heating item that runs on 240 is a well pump (sometimes). That means you could use the VFX3648. Keep in mind that 3600 Watts is about "two outlets worth" meaning you will not be able to turn everything on at once (a tally of the maximum total Watt needs is a good idea too).

    We do a lot of load management around here to squeak the maximum efficiency from our system. This includes large pressure tank to fill during daylight so the pump doesn't draw from batteries at night. That sort of planning is a big help.

    That will get you going. $2,000 inverter (don't forget the MATE), $1,000 batteries, $500 generator, $500 in wire and misc. No solar in that and it still isn't cheap.


    I have 1 x 240 watt panel, a morningstar ts-60 and an 8Kw generator. so that saves a lot right there.
    with 3600w ill be able to run (with the bank and panels) everything in my house all at once? what makes you think its only 2 outlets? thats 2 outlets maxed out to failing. most outlets are only 15-20 amp. even with a 1500w microwave this would not be an issue? i run less than 1000w peek power I have no big loads.
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • Photowhit
    Photowhit Solar Expert Posts: 6,002 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    THERE IS NO POWER FOR 3/4 OF A MILE WILL COST 23,000 PLUS A MONTHLY POWER BILL.
    wow ok THANK YOU!!! i was about to say mean things, lol.
    I have been coming here for info for 2 years and never signed up. you guys give some of the best tech advice on the net. you can be mean to new ppl and idiots like me.
    We can be mean because, we spend most of an hour doing a cost evaluation, best prices available study...and when we post the daily needs have changed yet again... I'm the one who should be saying mean things!
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    But, now with that said ill be honest to. This is what I'm getting (I have some of it now) and i am saving for all of it. I really like this form and hope you will all help the idiots like me strive for independence even on a budget.
    The only thing you all didn't cover was how to live here with no power for 16 months.
    I'm going to get 16 x 240w panels, 1600 Watt 5 Blade Missouri Rebel Freedom Wind Turbine 16 Centennial GC2200 6V 220Ah GC2 Deep Cycle Batteries, 4 OutBack Power GFX1548, 3 morningstar ts-60. and an 8 kw generator.

    I guess you haven't really been following the forum since most of use don't find wind productive, I would think in AZ with abundant sun this would be particularly true.

    I'll add one piece of advice, check the VMP of those 240watt panels, most will not be 35v the charging capacity for a pair of them to charge 48 volts through the cheap TS-60 charge controllers.

    Good luck! let us know how it works out.
    Home system 4000 watt (Evergreen) array standing, with 2 Midnite Classic Lites,  Midnite E-panel, Magnum MS4024, Prosine 1800(now backup) and Exeltech 1100(former backup...lol), 660 ah 24v Forklift battery(now 10 years old). Off grid for 20 years (if I include 8 months on a bicycle).
    - Assorted other systems, pieces and to many panels in the closet to not do more projects.
  • Shawn-H
    Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Photowhit wrote: »
    We can be mean because, we spend most of an hour doing a cost evaluation, best prices available study...and when we post the daily needs have changed yet again... I'm the one who should be saying mean things!


    I guess you haven't really been following the forum since most of use don't find wind productive, I would think in AZ with abundant sun this would be particularly true.

    I'll add one piece of advice, check the VMP of those 240 watt panels, most will not be 35v the charging capacity for a pair of them to charge 48 volts through the cheap TS-60 charge controllers.

    Good luck! let us know how it works out.

    you started saying mean things lol and my needs are the same. I thank you for the help and for the time you spent. I have a small 800 watt gen and i can run my needs on it. and I know you don't think wind is efficient don't care if you do my neighbor runs 2 x 600w and one 240w panel and nothing else for his hole house though his needs are only 2200w a day he meets them well and never uses more then 15% of his 5280w he has stored. I live less then 10 miles from a wind farm it will help my #'s well. I'm sorry you feel used and that i upset have you but truth is truth and i was looking for help and got it from some and not from others that you for the help you did give.
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    Okay I've deleted all the derailing posts so we can get back to the subject at hand. I do wish people would stop making extra work for the moderators: the spam intrusions alone keep us very busy. :p
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    I have 1 x 240 watt panel, a morningstar ts-60 and an 8Kw generator. so that saves a lot right there.
    with 3600w ill be able to run (with the bank and panels) everything in my house all at once? what makes you think its only 2 outlets? thats 2 outlets maxed out to failing. most outlets are only 15-20 amp. even with a 1500w microwave this would not be an issue? i run less than 1000w peek power I have no big loads.


    First question: Which Morningstar TriStar 60 do you have? They come in two version: PWM type and MPPT type. Wasn't it nice of them to make it confusing like that? Not! The PWM version will not be much good to you as it severely limits your array possibilities.

    Which brings us to your one 240 Watt panel. That isn't going to be enough power for any system size, so it would be set aside for now. The tricky part here would be to purchase more panels of the same specifications so that the one you have can be used in the array. Unfortunately panels change and what you buy today may not be available tomorrow. This is one of the reasons for saving up money to get stuff all at once.

    8kW generator: good. Plenty of power there even if it is fuel-hungry.

    Loads. "Two outlets worth" is a generalization; a colloquialism. Most people have trouble thinking about their loads in terms of Watts. You are correct that usually outlets aren't loaded to even 50% of capacity (and it has gotten better as energy consumption has improved in many things). But it is still a fact that stuff adds up.

    Curiously I sized my inverter so that it could handle everything (planned) at once just in case. One of the reasons for this is that sometimes the kids are here on their own and .... well they're in their 30's and still kids. So are their kids. It's just possible that they may flip all the switches to 'ON'. We don't have as many loads as you do, but your 1kW peak is not unreasonable (skipping motor starts). As for the microwave ... I think you're aware that the ratings on them are 'cooking power' and the actual draw is higher. It is one of the nastier appliances for momentary draw, but fortunately they are not used for long (despite the timer going to 10's of minutes).

    I was thinking the GC2 battery bank could get you started minimally as I have 232 Amp hours @ 24 Volts; 220 Amp hours @ 48 Volts is nearly double that stored capacity.

    Buying a less expensive inverter would be a false economy as you will want to ramp up the power later, so you'd be buying twice. Likewise with starting at 24 and going to 48. Expansion is one of the most difficult things to do with an off-grid system. Unfortunately no one as yet makes an expandable capacity inverter, so you either buy the big one to begin with or end up buying two. Mind you the latter has been used as a successful strategy in some cases (small 'lights only' inverter to start with, completely separate larger system installed later to handle larger loads).
  • Shawn-H
    Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Okay I've deleted all the derailing posts so we can get back to the subject at hand. I do wish people would stop making extra work for the moderators: the spam intrusions alone keep us very busy. :p




    First question: Which Morningstar TriStar 60 do you have? They come in two version: PWM type and MPPT type. Wasn't it nice of them to make it confusing like that? Not! The PWM version will not be much good to you as it severely limits your array possibilities.

    Which brings us to your one 240 Watt panel. That isn't going to be enough power for any system size, so it would be set aside for now. The tricky part here would be to purchase more panels of the same specifications so that the one you have can be used in the array. Unfortunately panels change and what you buy today may not be available tomorrow. This is one of the reasons for saving up money to get stuff all at once.

    8kW generator: good. Plenty of power there even if it is fuel-hungry.

    Loads. "Two outlets worth" is a generalization; a colloquialism. Most people have trouble thinking about their loads in terms of Watts. You are correct that usually outlets aren't loaded to even 50% of capacity (and it has gotten better as energy consumption has improved in many things). But it is still a fact that stuff adds up.

    Curiously I sized my inverter so that it could handle everything (planned) at once just in case. One of the reasons for this is that sometimes the kids are here on their own and .... well they're in their 30's and still kids. So are their kids. It's just possible that they may flip all the switches to 'ON'. We don't have as many loads as you do, but your 1kW peak is not unreasonable (skipping motor starts). As for the microwave ... I think you're aware that the ratings on them are 'cooking power' and the actual draw is higher. It is one of the nastier appliances for momentary draw, but fortunately they are not used for long (despite the timer going to 10's of minutes).

    I was thinking the GC2 battery bank could get you started minimally as I have 232 Amp hours @ 24 Volts; 220 Amp hours @ 48 Volts is nearly double that stored capacity.

    Buying a less expensive inverter would be a false economy as you will want to ramp up the power later, so you'd be buying twice. Likewise with starting at 24 and going to 48. Expansion is one of the most difficult things to do with an off-grid system. Unfortunately no one as yet makes an expandable capacity inverter, so you either buy the big one to begin with or end up buying two. Mind you the latter has been used as a successful strategy in some cases (small 'lights only' inverter to start with, completely separate larger system installed later to handle larger loads).

    thank you i am running the PMW version with a (voc) 125v (isc) 60a max I can see how this causes an issue with making it to a 48v sys. my panel is a suntech
    245w
    imp 8.4
    vmp 30.5
    isc 8.52
    voc 37.3
    this means a new 600 -700 in charge controler. The cost will be offset buy the panels that i will be able to choose. kinda pissed because i was sold the mppt. (never looked to see just hooked it and went) but didn't get it....... so ill but the Outback FM80-150VDC. so will be starting over lol thank you for the heads up on the charge controler Photowhit, Cariboocoot. this is the good stuff lol.
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    thank you i am running the PMW version with a (voc) 125v (isc) 60a max I can see how this causes an issue with making it to a 48v sys. my panel is a suntech
    245w
    imp 8.4
    vmp 30.5
    isc 8.52
    voc 37.3
    this means a new 600 -700 in charge controler. The cost will be offset buy the panels that i will be able to choose. kinda pissed because i was sold the mppt. (never looked to see just hooked it and went) but didn't get it....... so ill but the Outback FM80-150VDC. so will be starting over lol thank you for the heads up on the charge controler Photowhit, Cariboocoot. this is the good stuff lol.

    And there you have the problem: the panel's Vmp of 30.5 is actually too low to be used with a PWM type controller on a 24 Volt system. It's too high for a 12 Volt system (large power loss). Multiples of it will have the same troubles.

    If you were sold (paid for) the MPPT you are right to be upset. I'd be having serious words with the retailer about that.
  • Shawn-H
    Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    And there you have the problem: the panel's Vmp of 30.5 is actually too low to be used with a PWM type controller on a 24 Volt system. It's too high for a 12 Volt system (large power loss). Multiples of it will have the same troubles.

    If you were sold (paid for) the MPPT you are right to be upset. I'd be having serious words with the retailer about that.
    i'm on the phone with him know he is "seeing" what he can do.

    so this is what im looking at
    4000w ish in panels (tbd) $4,000
    Outback power FM80-150VDC $650
    Outback power VFX3648 $1,800
    Outback Power Systems MATE3 $420
    2x Combiner Box $95 each $190
    Breakers $100
    16 x Centennial GC2200 6V 220Ah $120 each $1,920
    Wiring $800 ish
    Epanel $500
    total $10,360

    am i missing anything. ill buld my own racking and do all the labor.?
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    Hi Shawn .,

    Please slow down a bit. Would suggest that you develop a plan (as many have encouraged you to do) before buying anything more.

    A different Charge Controller (CC) may be better for your system DESIGN. Perhaps a MidNite Solar Classic, but without a fairly good idea of where you are going, you could wind up buying more things that might not quite be what your system design calls for.

    Was happy to see a "Swamp Cooler" in your list of loads. This might work well for much of the cooling season, save for Monsoon season, perhaps.

    It is my candid opinion that Photowhit had some good suggestions ... he has setup several systems on a bit of a shoestring, and hope that you sill consider these suggestions as well as many others earlier in this Thread. Not to be too preachy.

    Designing a system can be fun and interesting if one has a bit of time to try to understand what you need, and how to do it in an affordable way. Just my opinions. Have fun, and welcome to this well-behaved Forum. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
  • ButchDeal
    ButchDeal Solar Expert Posts: 35
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    i'm on the phone with him know he is "seeing" what he can do.

    so this is what im looking at
    4000w ish in panels (tbd) $4,000
    Outback power FM80-150VDC $650
    Outback power VFX3648 $1,800
    Outback Power Systems MATE3 $420
    2x Combiner Box $95 each $190
    Breakers $100
    16 x Centennial GC2200 6V 220Ah $120 each $1,920
    Wiring $800 ish
    Epanel $500
    total $10,360

    am i missing anything. ill buld my own racking and do all the labor.?

    you are probably better off just getting a FlexPower 1 instead of all the parts and trying to integrate them.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    so this is what im looking at
    4000w ish in panels (tbd) $4,000
    Outback power FM80-150VDC $650
    Outback power VFX3648 $1,800
    Outback Power Systems MATE3 $420
    2x Combiner Box $95 each $190
    Breakers $100
    16 x Centennial GC2200 6V 220Ah $120 each $1,920
    Wiring $800 ish
    Epanel $500
    total $10,360

    am i missing anything. ill buld my own racking and do all the labor.?

    I think you might do better on some of that from our host NAWS:
    FM80 $550 http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/chco/ouchco/oufl80sochco.html
    VFX 3648 $1,770 http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/inverters/ouin/oupooffgrand/outback-power-pure-sinewave-inverter-vfx3648.html
    MATE II (you don't really need the III) $214 http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/inverters/ouin/oucopr/mate2.html

    Array can be an issue. Maxing out the FM80 is about 5kW of PV on a 48 Volt system. To get the 44 Amp hours peak charge current for the batteries you need about 2800 Watts, so that could be $1,000 saved right there. You could also then shift down to an FM60 instead and save $50.

    Or if you go with a single string of GC2's to start with you need only about 1400 Watts of PV and a MidNite Kid 30 Amp MPPT controller for only $285 http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/chco/misoclchco/midnite-solar-kid-mppt-charge-controller/midnite-solar-kid-mppt-solar-charge-controller.html You can then double the battery bank later, add a second Kid and additional PV (which would not have to match the first because it's on a different controller). This will also affect the combiner box choice.

    Just trying to figure out some options that would allow you to get started with less money and yet not hinder expansion.
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.

    Here's a kind of "get started" package:

    Array: six 245 Watt SolarWorld panels @ $252 each = $1512 for 1470 Watts. Wired as two parallel strings of three in series. Should output about 24 Amps @ 48 Volts. No combiner box/breakers needed as there's only two parallel strings.
    Controller: MidNite Kid 30 Amp MPPT $285
    Batteries: Eight GC2's, your $120 price is good (especially if local) $960. Gives you up to 5kW hours @ 50% DOD (+/- depending on the system over-all efficiency).
    VFX3648 inverter: $1,770
    MATE II: $214

    Total: $4,741.
    Necessary DC circuit protection will add a 30 Amp controller breaker for $12 and a 100 Amp inverter breaker for $40, plus mounting hardware and wiring. This is a big variable as the exact needs can't be known without finalizing components and placement.

    Please note this is not a sales quote: I don't work for NAWS.
  • Shawn-H
    Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    I think you might do better on some of that from our host NAWS:
    FM80 $550 http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/chco/ouchco/oufl80sochco.html
    VFX 3648 $1,770 http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/inverters/ouin/oupooffgrand/outback-power-pure-sinewave-inverter-vfx3648.html
    MATE II (you don't really need the III) $214 http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/inverters/ouin/oucopr/mate2.html

    Array can be an issue. Maxing out the FM80 is about 5kW of PV on a 48 Volt system. To get the 44 Amp hours peak charge current for the batteries you need about 2800 Watts, so that could be $1,000 saved right there. You could also then shift down to an FM60 instead and save $50.

    Or if you go with a single string of GC2's to start with you need only about 1400 Watts of PV and a MidNite Kid 30 Amp MPPT controller for only $285 http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/chco/misoclchco/midnite-solar-kid-mppt-charge-controller/midnite-solar-kid-mppt-solar-charge-controller.html You can then double the battery bank later, add a second Kid and additional PV (which would not have to match the first because it's on a different controller). This will also affect the combiner box choice.

    Just trying to figure out some options that would allow you to get started with less money and yet not hinder expansion.

    man you all rock. thank you love the idea of expanding slow. I have to live and work here for the next year to 20 months (was 8 months but has now changed due to no power by then.) i like and have installed outback but if you guys can give me good reliable stuff that i can depend on ill look at it.

    so any ideas what to do for me tell i can put in the hole sys in about a year?
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Shawn-H wrote: »

    so any ideas what to do for me tell i can put in the hole sys in about a year?

    Use the generator a lot. No joke; the power has to come from somewhere.
    It might even be worthwhile to invest in an inverter-generator; it will use less gas than the big one, especially on low loads, and be much quieter. You could get away with things like running it in the evening to be sure the 'frige is cooled down and then going without power overnight 'til you restart it in the morning. Although you might have to lock the refrigerator door so people don't open it for midnight snacks!

    Some might suggest a minimal system just to keep it going, charged from the gen. But then you're buying stuff twice and hoping you can flog what you want to replace. Maybe you can find some used equipment nearby that can get you some "quiet power". Only avoid used batteries; that's a pig-in-a-poke, and the pig is always either dead or dying.
  • Shawn-H
    Shawn-H Solar Expert Posts: 107 ✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Use the generator a lot. No joke; the power has to come from somewhere.
    It might even be worthwhile to invest in an inverter-generator; it will use less gas than the big one, especially on low loads, and be much quieter. You could get away with things like running it in the evening to be sure the 'frige is cooled down and then going without power overnight 'til you restart it in the morning. Although you might have to lock the refrigerator door so people don't open it for midnight snacks!

    Some might suggest a minimal system just to keep it going, charged from the gen. But then you're buying stuff twice and hoping you can flog what you want to replace. Maybe you can find some used equipment nearby that can get you some "quiet power". Only avoid used batteries; that's a pig-in-a-poke, and the pig is always either dead or dying.

    thank you. though my frige is gas. all my needs are is a laptop and cell phone. the cell is my internet and the comp is work. the laptop is 45w max and the phone is the same. its the family that will use the power. Though i need a better inverter pure sing wave this thing is killing my phone.
    100% Off-grid in the White Mountains of Arizona. 36 Kyocera 265w mounted on four DPW 9 module pole top mounts, midnite solar combiners, breakers, & lightning arresters, 1 midnight solar classic 150, & 3 classic 150 lights, 3 x 1574 AH GB Industries forklift batteries total of 4722 AH @24v. Feeding a Outback power systems FW500 with 2 x VFX 3624, with the x240. 2 Honda EU3000is gensets with the 240 combiner and control box running LP, and 1 Honda EU2000is Gas. 
    System #2 is a off grid water system @ 1590w (6 Kyocera 265's) on a 6 module DPW top of pole mount. Feeding a Granfas deep well pump and pump controller at 580 feet. 2 x 2800 gallon above ground poly storage tanks, and 1 x 1200 gallon underground  cistern and a Granfas 24v booster pump feeding a 90 gallon carbon fiber pressure tank.
    Vag woodstove for heat.
    Follow our journey at
    https://www.facebook.com/ShawnpHarvey
  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    Re: just bought an off the grid home water is well and power is/was soler.
    Shawn-H wrote: »
    thank you. though my frige is gas. all my needs are is a laptop and cell phone. the cell is my internet and the comp is work. the laptop is 45w max and the phone is the same. its the family that will use the power. Though i need a better inverter pure sing wave this thing is killing my phone.

    Yeah you're probably going to want to change away from propane 'frige. The more you use it, the less economical it is in relation to electric. Been there, done that; #1 reason for putting in our $8,000 solar electric power system. :p

    You're right that you don't want to charge your phone (or anything else) off a cheap MSW inverter. There are lots of low Watt 12 Volt pure sine inverters. Not too expensive. Samlex/Cotek line is okay as long as no big demands are made of it (won't start motors): http://www.solar-electric.com/inverters-controllers-accessories/inverters/sasiwain1/samlex-pst-series-pure-sine-wave-inverters.html You still need batteries and a way of charging them as they don't have built-in chargers. So that means getting something like an Iota: http://www.solar-electric.com/batteries-meters-accessories/bach2/bach1.html There again you have the issue of investing in this stuff for now, what do you do with it later? It becomes redundant and not very valuable on the used market. But if it's what needs doing then you accept the cost as a part of the whole.