Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

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jcheil
jcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
in Off Grid Solar & Battery Systems #1
Just read this on the Outback Forum:

http://outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7481&start=0&sid=bb936cec64a30c09c503d9c6bacdf244

Can't imagine why he is having charging issues, he ONLY has 72 batteries in 18 parallel strings :roll:
Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #2
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???
    jcheil wrote: »
    Just read this on the Outback Forum:

    http://outbackpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7481&start=0&sid=bb936cec64a30c09c503d9c6bacdf244

    Can't imagine why he is having charging issues, he ONLY has 72 batteries in 18 parallel strings :roll:

    Only 4,400+ Amp hours. :roll:
    Let's see, you'd need at least six 80 Amp charge controllers ....
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #3
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    what are the odds?:: they had problems with not enough output, however much that was, so (light does on!) lets just add more batteries! Yah! ..... oops, still not enough...add some more batteries....
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #4
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    Be nice... We have all "been there" at one time of the other.

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #5
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    Well I've seen just what westbranch describes numerous times, albeit on a smaller scale. All-too-often people think the solution to running out of power is to add more batteries and then when they run out of power add more.

    I find it hard to imagine he actually needs 50kW hours of stored power. But if he should, there are much better ways of doing it than eighteen parallel battery strings.
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  • Thom
    Thom Solar Expert Posts: 196 ✭✭✭
    #6
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    Wow ! That's amazing

    Thom
    Off grid since 1984. 430w of panel, 300w suresine , 4 gc batteries 12v system, Rogue mpt3024 charge controller , air breeze windmill, Mikita 2400w generator . Added 2@ 100w panel with a midnight brat 
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  • jcheil
    jcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    #7
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???
    Cariboocoot wrote: »
    I find it hard to imagine he actually needs 50kW hours of stored power. But if he should, there are much better ways of doing it than eighteen parallel battery strings.

    Just a question, and I am learning so I do not mean offense if by accident I am correct but isn't 4,400ah x 48v = 211,200wh? So he has 211kwh of stored power? Or do I have the formula wrong?
    Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
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  • jcheil
    jcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    #8
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???
    BB. wrote: »
    Be nice... We have all "been there" at one time of the other.

    -Bill

    Yup, I admit, I did it once too :(
    Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #9
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???
    jcheil wrote: »
    Just a question, and I am learning so I do not mean offense if by accident I am correct but isn't 4,400ah x 48v = 211,200wh? So he has 211kwh of stored power? Or do I have the formula wrong?

    Depends on what depth of discharge you take those batteries to. I wasn't trying to be 100% accurate on total stored Watt hours; just estimating a typical 25% average daily DOD capacity.
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  • BB.
    BB. Super Moderators, Administrators Posts: 33,439 admin
    #10
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???
    jcheil wrote: »
    Just a question, and I am learning so I do not mean offense if by accident I am correct but isn't 4,400ah x 48v = 211,200wh? So he has 211kwh of stored power? Or do I have the formula wrong?

    If you assume a "balanced system"--25% discharge for two days, 50% remaining, basically 1/4 of battery capacity per day...

    Or 1/4 * 211,200 WH ~ 50,000 WH = 50 kWH

    -Bill
    Near San Francisco California: 3.5kWatt Grid Tied Solar power system+small backup genset
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  • jcheil
    jcheil Solar Expert Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    #11
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    Thanks for the clarification on the calculation.
    Always learning.
    Off-Grid in Central Florida since 2005, Full-Time since June 2014 | 12 X Sovello 205w panels, 9 X ToPoint 220w panels, 36x ToPoint 225w panels (12,525 watts total) | Custom built single-axis ground mounts | Complete FP2 Outback System: 3 x FM80, 2 x VFX3648, X240 Transformer, FLEXnet-DC, Mate-3, Hub-10, FW500 AC/DC | 24 x Trojan L16RE-B Batteries 1110ah @ 48v | Honda EU7000is Generator and a pile of "other" Generators | Home-Made PVC solar hot water collector | Custom data logging software http://www.somewhatcrookedcamp.com/monitormate.html
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #12
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    72 Batteries (18 banks of 4 each) x 245ah (each) = 4410ah
    48 Panels (2-series x 4-parallel x 6 panel sub-arrays) 36A x 100v = 3600 x 4 = 14,400kW     in a 48 volt system

    I am not sure what it is, but there is something not adding up in his description for a remote site....


    14,400 Kw / 48v = 300A
    14,400 / 48 panels = 300 W per panel ???
    36A and 100V out of 12 panels of which there are 2 PVs in series... ???

    or am I misreading the numbers?
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #13
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???
    westbranch wrote: »
    72 Batteries (18 banks of 4 each) x 245ah (each) = 4410ah
    48 Panels (2-series x 4-parallel x 6 panel sub-arrays) 36A x 100v = 3600 x 4 = 14,400kW     in a 48 volt system

    I am not sure what it is, but there is something not adding up in his description for a remote site....


    14,400 Kw / 48v = 300A
    14,400 / 48 panels = 300 W per panel ???
    36A and 100V out of 12 panels of which there are 2 PVs in series... ???

    or am I misreading the numbers?

    Well for one this a string of four batteries indicates like a 24 Volt system (245 Amp hours - sounds like some Trojan 6 Volt industrial units).

    If so the array may be at 48 Volts while the system runs at 24. Two panels in series would make sense there. Two panels making 100 Volts does not make sense even as Voc.

    At any rate, if it were 4,410 Amp hours at 24 Volts you'd need about 13,714 Watts of array so a 14.4kW array would make sense. Or as much sense as anything about the system could.

    Divided into six separate arrays would be 2400 Watts each, not 3600.

    There's a lot that's wrong here.
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #14
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    We all are pretty much guessing at much of this ...

    The inverters in the poster's profile are 3648s, so bet that this IS a 48 V battery bank, and the individual batts are 12 V.

    The OP on the OB site has mentioned that some of this is above his/her Pay Grade, and is being referred up the chain (believe that this person is the maintenance/repair person).

    Perhaps the Crystal Ball will clear, in time. FWIW, Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #15
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    More data from OP on Outback site.

    Batteries: Sun Xtender PVX2580L

    Panels: 50V/6A (2 in series X 4 parallel X 6 sub-arrays)
    Note: The panels are facing more of a ESE direction due to terrain, peak falls more in the morning vice mid-day.

    Off-Grid: Totally Off-Grid :smile:

    Load: peak 75A for 12 hours on an extremely busy day, approximately 10A for 24 hours when not in use on weekends/holidays (air conditioner, network switches/router, small transmitter)

    Charge Controllers: 4x FX-80, FlexNet 1000


    PV: 2 PV in series = 100V 6A x 4Parallel strings =100V 24A per array X 6arrays =100V 144A = 14,400Kw

    So max load, using peak as avg. = 900Ahr per daytime + 120Ahr night = 1.02KAh per day + Inverter standby?

    This consumption is way too low to need that big an array and 4CC's. It must have a 5 day or ? days no sunlight factor or???
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
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  • Vic
    Vic Solar Expert Posts: 3,208 ✭✭✭✭
    #16
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    Still guessing ...

    BUT, assuming that the demand numbers that peasoup provided are at DC, 75 A for 12 hours at 53 V is about 4 KW FOR 12 HOURS is about 48 KWh. Much of this might provided directly from PV, but still not trivial.

    Then there is the background load of 10 A at about 50 V nominal for, let's say 12 hours (not 24) is still about 6 KWh.

    Then there must be some number of days that the battery might have been planned to carry a considerable amount of these loads.

    ALL, just MY GUESSES. We all want to help this person and the establishment get the most out of what they have, and so on ... not to nit-pick too much. Vic
    Off Grid - Two systems -- 4 SW+ 5548 Inverters, Surrette 4KS25 1280 AH X2@48V, 11.1 KW STC PV, 4X MidNite Classic 150 w/ WBjrs, Beta KID on S-530s, MX-60s, MN Bkrs/Boxes.  25 KVA Polyphase Kubota diesel,  Honda Eu6500isa,  Eu3000is-es, Eu2000,  Eu1000 gensets.  Thanks Wind-Sun for this great Forum.
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  • Cariboocoot
    Cariboocoot Banned Posts: 17,615 ✭✭✭
    #17
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    Not much point in trying, guys: the information provided doesn't make sense. Incorrect terminology and numbers makes for a random chance guessing game at what is going on.
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  • westbranch
    westbranch Solar Expert Posts: 5,183 ✭✭✭✭
    #18
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    Re: Wow, perhaps a new World Record???

    thanks Vic, you're not nit picking, I left voltage out... will correct units in previous post
     
    KID #51B  4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM
    CL#29032 FW 2126/ 2073/ 2133 175A E-Panel WBjr, 3 x 4s 140W to 24V 900Ah C&D AGM 
    Cotek ST1500W 24V Inverter,OmniCharge 3024,
    2 x Cisco WRT54GL i/c DD-WRT Rtr & Bridge,
    Eu3/2/1000i Gens, 1680W & E-Panel/WBjr to come, CL #647 asleep
    West Chilcotin, BC, Canada
    · Share on Twitter

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