First time using a generator and battery charger

nobody928

I am expecting to have a week of cloudy skies and rain this week. I bought a four stage die hard smart charger and a champion 1200 generator.

Do I need to remove the battery terminals leads that come from my charge controller before I hook up the battery charger? Can I just leave my inverter on while I charge my batteries with the generator or is it best to remove both the charge controller battery leads and the inverter before trying to charge?

Once again I have a 12v battery bank with 4 12v agm batteries.


Thank you,

Blackcherry04

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

You can leave them both hooked up. The charge controller and the charger will usually fight each other depending on the voltage output. I try to charge early in the morning or late in the evening before I go to bed. By using that scheme you don't miss out on the maximum output from your Panels. You need a clamp on amp meter and watch the output from both until you figure how they react.

jcheil

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

You are going to find that those automotice-style chargers will not be very efficient when running on a generator, especially the smallers ones like that 1200 that do not have perfect voltage regulation.

Also, you didn't mention the capacity of your battery bank, but as a guess if they were 100ah each, that would be a 400ah bank and via a charger you would want to try to put in at least 40a into them.

Forget the "Boost/Engine Start" rating on that charger, you cannot use that because it is only good for 60 seconds. And the "bulk" charge rating for that one is likely 20a which when running on a generator might end up being a net of 12a. Additionally, those automotive style chargers rarely (if ever) have adjustable charge voltage points so it is again likely fixed at 14.4v which is generally too low to get a good bulk/absorb charge.

Will it work in a pinch, yes, but you will be running that generator/charger for a LONG time to get the batteries back up to full charge.

Best bet is to get an Iota charger. They work very well on generators and will produce their full rated output. You won't be able to get the DLS-55 to run on that champion 1200 if the batteries are very discharged. Perhaps the DLS-45 might work. Once in a while if my batteries were not too low I was able to get the DLS-55 to work on my "1400" champion (which I swear was only a 1200 hence why the new models are 1200 yet exactly the same as my 1400). So I would go with the DLS-30 to be safe. Then you have a guaranteed 30a going into the bank running from that 1200 and you won't be maxing out the engine on that 1200.

NorthGuy

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

Blackcherry04 wrote: »

I try to charge early in the morning or late in the evening before I go to bed. By using that scheme you don't miss out on the maximum output from your Panels.

I always start charging around sunset. This way, the batteries have plenty of time to get discharged and make room to accept all the solar energy that can come the next day.

Blackcherry04

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

NorthGuy wrote: »

I always start charging around sunset. This way, the batteries have plenty of time to get discharged and make room to accept all the solar energy that can come the next day.

Thats a good plan if it works on the System capacity you have, If I am going to Bulk and I need it, I can crank in as many amps as it takes. It's all about balance and variables. If it's dark for 5 days , you charge when ever you need it.

nobody928

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

At what point do you reccomend going to "bulk up with the genset" ? I was thinking of waiting untill it drops to around 11.8v on my 12 volt system? Is this alright to do?

Blackcherry04

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

nobody928 wrote: »

At what point do you reccomend going to "bulk up with the genset" ? I was thinking of waiting untill it drops to around 11.8v on my 12 volt system? Is this alright to do?

Is the 11.8 with or without loads ?? On the 12v systems I use, that's about right. I am a use it or lose it person and I have limited panels. Batteries tend to be expendable if they are fulfilling your needs, of course you there limits you need to stay in between to get the most from them.

mike95490

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

It's been several rainy & cloudy days now, I run the generator for about an hour every AM, and another hour in the evening, weather permitting me to run to the generator shed to fire it up. I have a 3Kw generator, and push about 2.5kw into the batteries, using the inverters integral charger, so I'm loading it pretty good at the 1400' elevation I'm at.

2manytoyz

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

I'm in sunny FL, but we often get rainy days. I sometimes use an Iota 75A charger to recharge the battery bank when the sun isn't cooperating.



Don't worry about the charge controller. It won't be affected by having other charge controllers, or other charging sources. If the sun is up, the charge controller, and battery charger, will both supply energy to recharge the battery bank. When the batteries are almost full, the voltage comes up, and one or the other charging sources, might stop charging while the other finalizes the job. No problem.

One thing to watch for, is the Power Factor of your charger. Mine surprised me. With my charger supplying 75A at 12V, that's 900 Watts. No problem for my 2400 Watt generator. But when I measured the current draw, I was expecting ~7.5A at 120V on the supply side (900W). But it measured 13.56A at 120V, or 1627W!



To show that my Iota 75A charger, and 25A worth of solar (at the time), were both working together to recharge the battery bank, take a look at these pics.



The LinkPRO has a shunt, looking at total current in/out of the battery bank. 75A Iota, plus 25A solar =



So, be warned that your charger might have a horrible PF, and might tax your generator more than expected.

Blackcherry04

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

Thats funny that my Honda EU 2000 will pull the DLS-75 at 8.64 amps AC with the ECO throttle on.

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PNjunction

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

nobody928 wrote: »

.... I bought a four stage die hard smart charger ...

WARNING - if that is a Schumacher "Speed Charger", you know that they like to go into high-voltage EQ on their own right? And this is NOT advisable for most AGM's. We're talking 15.5 volts or more and when they do, they do so at the start of absorb, rather than at the end. At least thats what I have observed.

Unless you personally qualify a "speed charger" for proper operation by watching a cycle with a tracking voltmeter, or apply known work-around for agm's like PURPOSELY using the lowest voltage setting of gel, (which actually goes up to 14.6 volts in their gel mode!!) you might get away with it. If you can't find the voltages they use in their documentation, then one must do it themselves if you want peace of mind.

The Iota is the much safer bet.

2manytoyz

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

Blackcherry04 wrote: »

Thats funny that my Honda EU 2000 will pull the DLS-75 at 8.64 amps AC with the ECO throttle on.

That's more of what I was expecting! FWIW, during the time of the test, I was plugged into grid power. I have run the Iota from the Yamaha generator a number of times, and the motor didn't jump to near full throttle to carry the load. Might have to repeat this test...

Blackcherry04

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

2manytoyz wrote: »

That's more of what I was expecting! FWIW, during the time of the test, I was plugged into grid power. I have run the Iota from the Yamaha generator a number of times, and the motor didn't jump to near full throttle to carry the load. Might have to repeat this test...

I will say that it has a much bigger load as it starts and loads the caps up. I have checked it a few time's and it's always about the same.

vtmaps

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

2manytoyz wrote: »

That's more of what I was expecting! FWIW, during the time of the test, I was plugged into grid power. I have run the Iota from the Yamaha generator a number of times, and the motor didn't jump to near full throttle to carry the load. Might have to repeat this test...

Please do repeat the test... several users have reported on this forum that the low power factor of the Iota is a problem for some generators. Blackcherry04 seems to be the exception (having found a current draw commensurate with the power draw).

My best guess for the discrepancies is some problems with the measurements... Not all ammeters deal properly with phase-shifted or non-sine wave currents. I wonder if BC04's ammeter calculates the amperage from the wattage, rather than the VA. BC04, have you checked your Iota with a kill-a-watt meter which can tell you both VA and Wattage?

--vtMaps

Blackcherry04

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

vtmaps wrote: »

Please do repeat the test... several users have reported on this forum that the low power factor of the Iota is a problem for some generators. Blackcherry04 seems to be the exception (having found a current draw commensurate with the power draw).

My best guess for the discrepancies is some problems with the measurements... Not all ammeters deal properly with phase-shifted or non-sine wave currents. I wonder if BC04's ammeter calculates the amperage from the wattage, rather than the VA. BC04, have you checked your Iota with a kill-a-watt meter which can tell you both VA and Wattage?

--vtMaps

Why would I check it, I can tell what it draws by the RPM's of my Generator. I don't need a Kill-a-Watt meter. If it was pulling 13 + amps it would never run on it that would mean the starting load would be over 20 amps.

jcheil

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

Blackcherry04 wrote: »

Why would I check it, I can tell what it draws by the RPM's of my Generator. I don't need a Kill-a-Watt meter. If it was pulling 13 + amps it would never run on it that would mean the starting load would be over 20 amps.

I wonder if the testing conditions used have something to do with it?

For example, was the test performed with the "bulk" jack plugged into the Iota forcing it to the higher voltage setting?
Was the battery bank at a DOD that would draw the full current from the charger?
Was it one with the IQ4 built-in and therefore you would never really know if it was in Bulk or Float mode?
Also, I am pretty sure the DLS75 has a NEMA 5-20 plug on it and I think the KAW meter only supports 15amp plugs.

And with the crappy power factor of the Iota (but I still love them), running a DLS 75 at FULL OUTPUT will seriously draw some power from a generator. I am surprised anyone could get it to run on a 2000. When I was on 12v I used to run my DLS-55 from a Champion 3000 and it would REALLY load it up in the 2500+ range. So i would expect trying to run a DLS-75 on a 3000 would about max it out (unless perhaps the inverter-generator fact makes a difference). Just my experience. YMMV.

Blackcherry04

Re: First time using a generator and battery charger

Here we go , I guess that a 75.9 amp DC output isn't it's full Rated output ?? I can't see where the dod matters, but it was about 300 amp hrs dod from 1'100 amp hr bank.

Here is a Meanwell pb-1000, 60A, with >.95 PF I guess there is something wrong with it's Input and Output. No one has yet to prove that all that mumbo, jumbo about PF means anything more that a selling point. Upsetting when a $349.00 charger is worse than a IOTA.

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